sources for paper 1/2 thousands thick?

[johnson1942]

found about 150 sheets of trucal linen paper in a drawer and cant find it at all any more one the internet. the sheets are small and only get two patches for my .50 off of each sheet. 2 wraps and it only brings diam. up two thousands. wrapped a couple of bullets and it wrapped easier than any paper ive ever used. my question is, is their any paper available out their that is only 1/2 thousands thick? i think it would be easier to bump up a .498 bullet wrapped with paper this thin as a .492 bullet wrapped with number nine. also has anyone ever tried dry wrapping with bakers partchment paper? i dont know the diam. but i read on another site it was used for smokeless paperpatching.

[Huvius]

I have tried parchment and I think the problem was that it is too water resistant to soak.
You may be able to find some tracing paper that thin or try cigarette papers.
Maybe blueprint paper might work. I have heard of that too.

[country gent]

You might look at tissue paper for decorting gifts. Also sewing patterns are very thin also. Finding paper a true .0005 thick is going to be hard to do. Maybe a couple rollers sprung heavy and wet and roll to thickness wanted? Not real sure where else to look for that. Most tracing papers , onion papers are .0015-.0025 thk. I just ordered some seth cole 7 and 8 lb to try, Ill try to let you know the thickness of it when it gets here. I also ordered a ream of onion paper but that is probably around .002 thk.

[Lead pot]

The thinnest paper I have found is .0015" thick and that is to thin for patching a bullet to keep the tin/lead from smearing the bore.
The grooves mostly run .004" deep.

[bigted]

yes I have found my 9 pound onionskin to be too thin in some applications. I have found lead in my barrels with it as well and when this happened I had to stop and scratch my head for awhile.

I agree with the premise that your paper should equal the depth of the rifling with two wraps.

.0015 would equal in the most .003 thick
.002 thick would = .004 thick
.003 would = .006 thick

and so on. the thickness is double that in reality as the boolit has two sides that contact the barrel ... but ... this thickness is all that counts for the thickness that fills the rifling.

[Huvius]

I agree with the premise that your paper should equal the depth of the rifling with two wraps.

.0015 would equal in the most .003 thick
.002 thick would = .004 thick
.003 would = .006 thick

and so on. the thickness is double that in reality as the boolit has two sides that contact the barrel ... but ... this thickness is all that counts for the thickness that fills the rifling.

I think for smokeless, that is correct. Or patch up to .001-.002" larger than groove diameter.

For black, I have wrapped to the bore diameter plus the .001-.002" if it happens to work out that way. For instance, my 461 Gibbs has a .461" bore, so I patch my boolit to .461" and with BP expect it to bump up to fill the grooves. With a long boolit, I think the front half of the bearing surface (more or less) of the patch rides the bore and the back part of the boolit expands to groove depth. If my patched boolit can be pushed down the barrel with reasonable pushing force, I figure that is about ideal.

[johnson1942]

bigted, i found on another site that some use bakers partchment paper for smokeless paperpatching. well i went to the store this morning and got some. it is thinner that number nine by a little but i dont have the numbers. i found it is good for dry wraping and can wrap very very tight that way, it seems to be self lubed also. they came out at 3 thousand under .50 with 2 wraps so i bumped them up to .50 with a slight pressure in my swageing .50 swageing die. i guess i do have the numbers as i started out at .492. so 2 wraps make 5 thousands. i have to shoot them now and see how they shoot. again you cant wet wrap them as they are water proof but they are extreemly tuff and refuse to tear when i twist the tails hard. if they shoot well im going to that paper and no more lubeing as they are self lubed. when i bumped them up 3 thousands they even got more slippery than before the bump. i always slit to the lead as the old timers did with a sharp little knife along the angle seam on the paper before putting down the barrel this makes the paper come off of the bullet in one chunk. we will see when i shoot them, what one thinks perfect in his or hers head doesnt alway and more times than not work out in reality. i really have fun testing what others do and some time it works out. i wish all cal. would shoot as easy as my .45 1/18 twist paperpatch. that gun has no cares what goes down the bore. it hits in the same place every time. i wish i knew why? my .40 that i used to have and my .50 are fussy cranks. they shoot but are fussy.

[Huvius]

I look forward to your results with the parchment paper.
Honestly, I had not thought of patching dry and now have another thing to try...

[Yellowhouse]

bigted, i found on another site that some use bakers partchment paper for smokeless paperpatching. well i went to the store this morning and got some. it is thinner that number nine by a little but i dont have the numbers. i found it is good for dry wraping and can wrap very very tight that way, it seems to be self lubed also. they came out at 3 thousand under .50 with 2 wraps so i bumped them up to .50 with a slight pressure in my swageing .50 swageing die. i guess i do have the numbers as i started out at .492. so 2 wraps make 5 thousands. i have to shoot them now and see how they shoot. again you cant wet wrap them as they are water proof but they are extreemly tuff and refuse to tear when i twist the tails hard. if they shoot well im going to that paper and no more lubeing as they are self lubed. when i bumped them up 3 thousands they even got more slippery than before the bump. i always slit to the lead as the old timers did with a sharp little knife along the angle seam on the paper before putting down the barrel this makes the paper come off of the bullet in one chunk. we will see when i shoot them, what one thinks perfect in his or hers head doesnt alway and more times than not work out in reality. i really have fun testing what others do and some time it works out. i wish all cal. would shoot as easy as my .45 1/18 twist paperpatch. that gun has no cares what goes down the bore. it hits in the same place every time. i wish i knew why? my .40 that i used to have and my .50 are fussy cranks. they shoot but are fussy.

Interesting! I never saw a reference to slitting the paper like that. You remember who wrote that!

[Huvius]

I had not heard of slitting the patch either but I guess it won't hurt to try.
Many of the original PP cartridges I have inspected look like the patch goes forward just past the end of the ogive of the boolit. Maybe that helps create a parachute effect and causes the patch to release as well.
This is something I should think about especially on boolits with more rounded noses like these ones. I am sure I should be paying more attention to where the patch end is in relation to the ogive if for no other reason than to maintain consistancy.
The third from the left is a deusey! If my bore riding theory is correct, it shouldn't matter IMO.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/Huvius/B14D896B-1FB3-4DE2-86D1-E37ADC0970AB-2849-000002C5D717B322_zpsac275fe0.jpg

[johnson1942]

it was possibly but not wrote in stone that i read that in ned roberts book. how ever i have read so many old books that i cant be sure. on the long range muzzleloader it said alot of the oldtimers would slit the paper alone the angle line about 3/4 the way down the bullet. to day i fired a few rounds with the bakers parchment paper and some with traceing paper. both are thinner than number 9. i fired from a bench only at 50 yards. i got 1/2 inch groups with both of them except for one wild flier. i believe the flier was because my base is too deep and the lip is too thin. im haveing a new base punch made so the lip is thicker and the pocket isnt so deep. the bakers parchment paper didnt have any lube as it is slippery in it self. i lubed the traceing paper with a wax and joba joba lube mixture. i really believe with the right size bullet the bakers parchment paper will work very well in blackpowder cartridge gun, with out a need for lube. my favorite bullet to day im sorry to say wasnt a paper patch. it was a bullet i cast up from a custom mould i had made. the bullet is .50 cal, the back is like a roundball and the rest is very slightly larger than .50. i patch the back as a roundball and the rest is a tight bore rider. i had a big white posterboard for a target and i use narrow electritions tape to make a large cross on it. i fried 3 rounds with this special cast bullet from a 1/28 twist .50 barrel with 90 grains of 2f behind it. all three made a slightly larger that .50 cal hole ( three holes as one) in the center of the cross where the tape came together. the bullet is .12 long and weighs 533 grains. i hope some day i can hunt elk with it in colorado. any ways i believe the bakers parchment paper has potential as a dry wrap for bullets.

[mikeym1a]

Paul Matthews suggested that if you need real thin paper for patching, go buy a dress pattern. Butterwick and , Oh what was its name? Anyway, 2 different pattern makers. And one is a bit thinner than the other. If you have a copy of 'The Paper Jacket', it's in there. Matthews said that they are real thin, but very strong. Good Luck!

[Frank Savage]

I would sugest to buy only what you can see up close and personal. Some of the dress pattern papers are very uneven as to density of the fiber over given area, some have small holes through and some are made on slow running sieve, so no real orientation of the fibre is present.

[Lead pot]

And not only that; that paper has a lot of sizing in it. (clay)
I don't use any paper that will not let a drop of water leak through it like an ink blotter :) maybe some of you dont know what a ink blotter is :)

[montana_charlie]

i always slit to the lead as the old timers did with a sharp little knife along the angle seam on the paper before putting down the barrel this makes the paper come off of the bullet in one chunk.
From the way you word things, I take it that you are paper patching for a muzzle loader ... right?

If true, that may have something to do with why you think the patch needs to be slit in order to get it to come off of the bullet.
When fired through our breechloading cartridge guns, the patch is cut into narrow strips by the rifling, producing what we call 'confetti'. It tends to 'puff' away from a bullet like smoke off of a matchhead.

I don't understand why getting a patch to come off in a single piece - like a flapping rag whipping loose in a high wind - would seem like a good idea.

CM

[johnson1942]

your right and i should have clairified that. i have 3 paperpatch muzzle loaders. i do shoot paper patch in my 45/70 as well as cast bullets. to be honest i dont fold the paper over onto the base of the bullet on my 45/70 because the larger than bore poly wad keeps the paper from comming off the bullet in the barrel. it finishes at .459 and starts out at .451. the throat in the back of the 45/70 barrel is .459. it is a very simple method and shoots very good for me. the reason i post about paper patch here is every one is a lot more informative here than on the muzzle loader site, except of idaho ron. also all my muzzle loader bullets have a hollow base of some design but the 45/70 is flat based.