Snover versus Money

[bigted]

now I know im a bit near sighted and prolly not the sharpest tool in the kit ... however when I look at these two boolits ...[pictures]... I do not see a bunch of difference between the two. can some one set me straight with concerns as to the difference between the Snover and the Money nose style and general boolit in whole?

thanks.

[johnson1942]

at first glance ted they look the same. on the money bullet the taper comes back past the first driveing band. again, the money bullet even the first driveing band is tapered. the nose taper on the snover stops some what in front of the first driveing band. i trust the stats on these bullets as they have records of shooting very well way out their. however i dont get why i cant shoot them like that. i designed a very long bearing surface bullet with a short round nose and that works very good for me. maybe they shoot theirs faster than i do. i do have a throat on my 45/70 and my bullet seats up in the throat so maybe that is the diff. i saw that design years ago in a old pope book and i tried it and it really works.

[montana_charlie]

Are we talking about .40 caliber bullets?
CM

[kokomokid]

Ted, in my 40-65 the snover seats in the taper of my free bore and my reduced band money bullet seats well into the lands. The snover shoots well at 20-1 with 57gr swiss 1 1/2 to the turkey line. I use a Dan T designed money with 70.5gr swiss and at least 13-1 alloy. I think you will find a lot of variations (nose taper and reduced bands) in custom moulds for the money bullet. just my 2cnts

[bigted]

cool ... thanks for the answers ... and yes im talkin about a 40 cal. looks like I will be a parent to an orphaned Remington sporting roller soon ... I hope!

[Dragoon 45]

I have both moulds. My Browning .40-65 seems to like the Snover better, while my Rolling Block likes the Money Bullet. I just got an old SAECO 740 mould, but don't know how well it is going to shoot yet. In either rifle I can seat the Money bullet out farther and get an additional 3-4 grns more powder in the case.



now I know im a bit near sighted and prolly not the sharpest tool in the kit ... however when I look at these two boolits ...[pictures]... I do not see a bunch of difference between the two. can some one set me straight with concerns as to the difference between the Snover and the Money nose style and general boolit in whole?

thanks.

[montana_charlie]

and yes im talkin about a 40 cal.
Well, I don't speak that dialect, so I can't help much. But, there is this about the .45 Money bullet ...

It has a spherical nose tip which is 55% of caliber. That tip is set at a calculated distance to create a nose which is (close to) 45% of overall bullet length. Then, that nose is constructed using a tangential ogive which 'blends' into the spherical tip.

The result is a bullet shape which has an improved ballistic coefficient, and has improved stability in the trans-sonic velocity region.

I can only presume that the .40 caliber version shares the same fundamental 'science'.

What claim the Snover bullet has in these same areas is well beyond my knowledge, but it definitely does not have a tangential ogive, and it appears to be a bore rider design.

CM

[bigted]

Exelent

[montana_charlie]

Exelent
The excellence came from Dan Theodore, the 'father' of the Money nose.

I simply paid attention when he posted the information, and I still remember it ... even though he decided to delete all of his posts or turn them into Greek gibberish.

[Old-Win]

The "real father" of the original money bullet was William Metford in about 1879. There is a drawing of it in the "Modern Sportsman's Rifle" vol II on page 501. The book was printed in 1884 by J.H. Walsh.

[Tom Myers]

Maybe these can give you an idea of the differences.

Click on the images to view a larger image.

Hope this helps.

87394

87395

[kokomokid]

Thanks Tom, big diff in nose % and grease capacity. The money bullet I shoot was a Dan T design for the browning 40-65. LB

[Don McDowell]

There are a couple of different grease groove patterns for the "money" bullet. The mini groove as pictured above is designed and has to be used with wiping between shots. The regular grease groove design can be shot with blowtubing.

[Lead pot]

It's very hard to come up with a bullet design these days that has not been drawn before in the past 100 years ago and getting reinvented on the internet. The Brits had projectiles during the 1870's fluted and dimpled that are now getting reinvented.

[Doc Highwall]

Is there a drawing of the money bullet with the larger grease grooves?

[45bpcr]

Yes Doc there is.
If you search 40 caliber money bullet you can see some thumbnails by Dan T but he's removed the full sized images.
FYI, I have moulds for the Lyman Snover and the mini groove money bullet designed for / by Dr. Keith Lay.
The lyman mould was less than perfect and I had to do some work to it before it cast acceptable bullets. The money bullet mould I bought from BACO worked right out of the box. It's # 400409M4 It has reduced front driving bands and can be seated waaaayy out in my wifes 40-65 Browning. The grease grooves on that are .050 wide and .040 deep. It shoots a lot better than the Lyman so that what she's been shooting.
And another FYI, she shoots chickens dirty :-)

45bpcr

[Tom Myers]

Is there a drawing of the money bullet with the larger grease grooves?

If I remember correctly, I was at a BPCR Shoot and one of the shooters was shooting a bullet that he said was the Dan Theodore Money bullet. I asked for a sample and he pulled one out of one of his loaded rounds and I brought it home and entered the specs into the Precision Bullet Design software.
Here is what I have for specs on the 45 Cal Money bullet.



87435

[Don McDowell]

Bigted, another bullet that works well in the 40-65 that doesn't get much notice is the RCBS csa400. Our roller shoots it and the snover with the same accuracy.

[powderburnerr]

Don that is a good bullet , I have one of them but I had problems getting it to work in a shiloh 45 degree chamber , I bet now that they went to a 7 degree the bullet would fit, the nose was too big .

[kokomokid]

Tom, somewhere in your 459 money bullets you have a DT design with .2353 nose and a B.C. 0.4730. I think Dan called it the 1000 yard bullet-I have one. Think it was 459-450-52. LB

[Don McDowell]

Dean we fitted this roller with a green mtn barrel and an adaptation of what we think may have been a Ron Long chamber.. Anyway that rcbs bullet shoots well and I think it would probably do a number on a critter if a person was to want a heavy 40 for putting the smackdown on something.

[Tom Myers]

Tom, somewhere in your 459 money bullets you have a DT design with .2353 nose and a B.C. 0.4730. I think Dan called it the 1000 yard bullet-I have one. Think it was 459-450-52. LB

This might be what your are referring to. It is the only one that I have left in the 45 Calibers :

87455

[montana_charlie]

If I remember correctly, I was at a BPCR Shoot and one of the shooters was shooting a bullet that he said was the Dan Theodore Money bullet. I asked for a sample and he pulled one out of one of his loaded rounds and I brought it home and entered the specs into the Precision Bullet Design software.
Here is what I have for specs on the 45 Cal Money bullet.



87435

When Theodore gave Doc Lay a new bullet to use, it did so well everybody wanted one. The name 'Money bullet' came from it being used in Doc's 'Money Gun'
The Money Gun is a 45/70, so the design had tapering bands in the front to allow enough setout to use a charge that would produce velocity above 1300 fps.

This is Dan's drawing of that bullet. He claimed a BC of .571 for it.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/Docs45-cal18-TMiniG5-groovetappered.jpg