Ring the chamber?

[Digger]

Okay , maybe dumb question here ....
Using fillers , sometimes I hear about the possibility of putting a "ring in the chamber"
What is it ? , corrosion ? ... of the chamber wall ? ... as yet to find some info on it.
Just a guess but would appreciate a proper description if possible ...
thanks
digger

[dbosman]

There will be several qualifiers in my description. That will make for better arguments.
The issue is argued -in the good sense of arguing- by many, disputed by many, and reproducible in old - mild steel barrels.
A small for the cartridge, charge of fast powder (generally with lots of air space in the cartridge) can reach its pressure maximum inside the cartridge (or not too far into the bore). The pressure wave(s) can produce denting on the cartridge or even on the barrel.
That is one of the reasons people use fillers in moderate loads of pistol powders in rifle cartridges.

In my opinion, using a modern steel barrel, with lead boolits or bullets, it's isn't likely outcome.

Fire away folks.

[Outpost75]

I have ringed several barrels, both straight cases and bottlenecked using fillers. I quit doing it. Barrels and gubsmithing work are expensive. Have sectioned at least a dozen which others have been stupid on.

[fouronesix]

Incorrect use of fillers or wads can do it. It is harder to do in modern guns with modern steel. It is easier to do in older guns with older steel. I have never done it and have used fillers in a bunch of different guns. Many of the old original BPCR rifles I've looked at have a very small ring in the neck area of the chamber right where the base of the bullet would be seated in a loaded round- and I'd bet none of them have had any kind of filler used in them. They would have all been shot with either factory blackpowder rounds or reloaded blackpowder rounds.
:)

[madsenshooter]

I ringed the chamber on one of my Krag rifles. Like the guys above say, it is a softer steel than modern barrels. I was using Puf-Lon over WC860 with a kicker. The first case I measured too much of the Puf-Lon and had to pack it in there pretty tight. In the rest I used a smaller measure and let the bullet do the compressing. It appears the Puf-Lon compressed at the base of the bullet before the bullet started moving and the neck got a small ring in it about half way between shoulder and mouth, right where the base of the bullet was. I had shot the loads with less compression before the stuffed one and had no problems. Some say Grex would not have done what the Puf-Lon did. I now have a good excuse to buy a Criterion barrel for that Krag!

[Larry Gibson]

Yes it is possible to ring a chamber with an incorrect filler use or with a wad. Just as it is possible to overcharge the case and blow something up. Point is if a proper filler is used correctly with a proper powder and bullet weight you will not ring the chamber. Do it wrong and like other things it can cause problems.

Larry Gibson

[frnkeore]

The safest way to prevent damage to a rifle barrel is to NOT put anything inside the case but, powder and a bullet! I'm another one that knows what can happen. I got away with it for a while but, finally payed the price. You'll find people claim better accuracy but, you'll find as many or more that claim better accuracy w/o any added "filler". I did it because I got a slight gain in accuracy when I should have instead opted for a bulkier and/or slower powder.

You'll find in match shooting that no one uses them, if they were safe and you got more reliable accuracy, everyone would be using them.

Frank

[Grump]

I believe there was also a powder/primer/bullet combo that ringed chamber necks in many '03 Springfields in .30-06. Full power USGI loads. Maybe half an inch of air space.

[Outpost75]

I believe there was also a powder/primer/bullet combo that ringed chamber necks in many '03 Springfields in .30-06. Full power USGI loads. Maybe half an inch of air space.

TW and SL Ball M2 made in 1952 and 53 using WC852 ball powder. American Rifleman published info on this, the ammo was provided to clubs through the DCM and the chambers of many M1 rifles were ringed with this ammo partway up the neck adjacent to where the bullet base was. The Army offered to replace the ammunition and to rebarrel damaged rifles. I got an M1 rebarreled for free at Camp Perry in 1967 under this deal. I still have the rifle.

The ringing was said not to impair safety or functioning, but barrels were replaced as a courtesy. If this occurred in a boltgun you would get hard bolt lift during primary extraction, and a rubbed spot being obvious on the cartridge case at the base of the neck about 1/8" up from the shoulder.

[geargnasher]

Yes it is possible to ring a chamber with an incorrect filler use or with a wad. Just as it is possible to overcharge the case and blow something up. Point is if a proper filler is used correctly with a proper powder and bullet weight you will not ring the chamber. Do it wrong and like other things it can cause problems.

Larry Gibson

My thoughts as well. Buffers and fillers are useful tools to me and I use them according to "instructions" with only positive effects. Whether using Dacron as a positive powder locator, corn meal as a buffer/sealer in the ratty ol' 45/70, or PSB to improve/alter the burn characteristics of slow-for-cartridge powders, they all have their useful place on my loading bench.

But normally I try to keep from using them because, frankly, it's a PITA most of the time.

Gear

[Piedmont]

Since chamber ringing always seems to happen at the base of the bullet, if one were to seat the bullet with the gas check just below the bottom of the neck, would that prevent ringing even if other things were done 'wrong'?

[frnkeore]

Since chamber ringing always seems to happen at the base of the bullet, if one were to seat the bullet with the gas check just below the bottom of the neck, would that prevent ringing even if other things were done 'wrong'?

Not from my experiance. My chamber (30/40) buldged about 3/8 back of the shoulder approx where the filler was.

Frank

[bigted]

I have rattled this around in my brain for years and this is what makes sense to me;

if I load ...[which I do a lot of]... cornmeal or cream o wheat for filler to position the powder on the primer the same every time ... there is no possibility of an shock wave doing anything strange as there simply is no room for it to bounce. the pressure raises for sure and I always start low and work up BUT ... never had any problem with my filler because I NEVER have any air space to deal with EVER.

I have tried the pillow stuffing ... Dacron ... fluffy stuff and this makes me very nervous. there is obviously air in there and there is the puff's of feathery crud that goes with the shot every time ... as well as if the wind is coming at me then I get messy along with the fluffy crud ... the cm or cow never gives me trouble and I always get good results.

having said this, I do not use filler in very many cases because it surely is a pain to install and just adds another thing to do when loading that if I can get around it I will.

so in short... [too late huh?]... if there are no air pockets to allow any pressure to "bounce" around in ... then there can be no problems with the exception of a higher pressure load which should be taken into account when loading them.

my advise is also ... try to NOT use any filler ... instead go with a bulkier powder that is slower and try for a good shooting load with it instead.

[nanuk]

someone on here was using filler as a pressure increaser and found it could be subbed for powder to get the same velocity with lower powder consumption....

fillers are like everything else, they need to be understood and approached with caution and care.

[bigted]

Corn meal or Cream of Wheat is Heavy, is organic, it does not stay the same as the day it was loaded, it absorbs moisture. Therefore the PSI changes.

PFF is inert, it's not heavy, it's weight does not require adding it to the bullet weight.
The extra space allows for reduced pressures in older guns, a weaker action, or just reduced loads. Last but not least MOA accuracy.

Bill. You are prolly rite about the 'shelf life' of the cm and cow. I never allow em to stand round loaded for any length of time ... LOL ... and I should know what PFF is but alas my mind is also water absorbent ... and im never sure when the flood is coming.

[longbow]

I guess I will weigh in here too.

I have been using COW filler for some time now though I do not shoot as much as many. My reasons for using it ~ primarily because it allows for more versatility in loading, can help in PB boolit loads to prevent leading/increase velocity and provide 100% loading density in every load.

Like bigted, I work up loads using the filler. So far I have had nothing but positive results. I will not claim exceptional accuracy here but improved accuracy over not using the filler with my loads and guns.

I worry more about using small charges of fast powder and accidentally double charging. Yes, I check but we all make mistakes. 100% loading density kinda solves that. At worst I would have no powder and all COW.

As for weight and absorbing moisture, I checked a while ago and my added weight of COW in a .303 British was 13 grs. behind a 200 gr. boolit so percentage wise not a lot. And that was with about 1/2 case load of powder. I also loaded up 20 rounds and left five loaded rounds outside for almost a year ~ they were in an open Ziploc bag under a tree so not exposed directly to wet but certainly to humidity. After about 10 + months (I got impatient) I pulled a couple of boolits from those left outside and those stored inside. No difference in the packed COW (yes, it was packed a bit but not solid). I reseated boolits and shot all at the range. No perceptible differences in pressure or point of impact.

Now having said that, I would have some reservations about a light charge of powder topped with filler in an overbore cartridge like .243 Win, .264 Win, maybe 7mm Mag, or any other large volume sharp shouldered cartridge with a small neck.

So far everything I have read or heard about ringing chambers is due to air space above the powder and a "wad" or packed filler leaving an air space. I am no expert though and I have not ringed a chamber yet so no personal experience. If and when it happens I will post about it.

FWIW

Longbow