.45acp alloy?

[tonysp101]

I have been having a hard time around here finding wheelweights and lead. Here's what I have 7 pounds wheel weights, about 15 pounds of pure lead, 50 pounds of 50/50. What would be a good mixture for 45acp. I will be useing a lee tl452-230gr mold.

[jmort]

I would use the 50/50 with 2% tin

[tonysp101]

The 50/50 is 50% lead 50%tin. It is from bar solder

[Walstr]

With all that Tin, expect your cast boolit to be underweight & prone to minimal shrinkage. Increasing alloying elements increases hardness & decreases weight. The as cast weight reduction is no biggy. The minimal shrinkage may make the boolits wish to stay in the mould. I've been advised that ClipWW & 2% additional Tin may be optimal, including the desired hardness.

[jmort]

I thought it was 50/50 COWW.

[mikeym1a]

The lyman formula for using COWW to make #2 is 9lb of COWW and 1lb of 50/50 solder. So, if you took your COWW, and added about 13oz of the 50/50, you should get the approximate formula of Lyman #2. If you wish to up your antimony for a bit harder boolit, you could order a bar of 'SuperHard' from rotometals. it a 70/30 alloy of lead/antimony. Do you have a copy of the Lyman Cast Boolit Handbook? If not, you should try to find one. I like the #3 for information. I find the writing style more to my taste than the #4. However, either has an excellent write-up on lead, and its alloys. Happy Casting! :D

[mikeym1a]

On re-reading your initial post, I see that I did not answer your primary question. I don't know what to recommend as a good alloy, as I am no expert. I do know what has worked for me. I used a mixture of 10lbs COWW and 1lb 50/50 solder. I used the lee 200gr swc/microgroove boolit. Tumble lubed, and loaded unsized. For me, this has feed without fail, and has caused no leading. I've not tested these boolits for hardness, but have had no trouble with them. Hope this helps. mike. :D

[Mk42gunner]

I hear you on how tough it is getting to find the wily wheel weight. The sad thing is most of us are going to have to start spending money (the horror) to get a castable alloy.

Personally, I like air cooled wheel weights for use in the .45ACP, my Lyman 452460 molds, both two and four cavities drop at 206-7 grains with the batch I am using now. With some wheel weights you may have to add some tin, the normal recommendation is for not more than 2%.

I also prefer to use a ~200 grain bullet in the .45, it shoots acceptably close to the fixed sights in my guns; and it allows for a few more bullets per pound than the ~230's. For rough figures you get 7/6 the amount of 200's/230's, (its late and I don't feel like doing the math to get exact numbers).

Robert

[lylejb]

anywhere from half COWW/ half pure to straight COWW should produce usable alloy for 45. Add 2% tin as needed for mould fill out.

Just a suggestion,

since you have plenty of 50/50 solder, you could trade for WW ingots.

Tin is much more expensive than lead, so you could probably trade 4 or 5 to 1 for WW. That would get you more material to work with for little cash outlay.

Post or watch in swappin and sellin section if your looking for a trade

[knifemaker]

For my 1911s I use a 50/50 mix of clip on wheel weights with a equal amount of pure lead and add about 2% tin for mold fillout. Great accuracy and no leading in several different 1911s.

[Cmm_3940]

Alloy isn't critical with a low intensity round like 45ACP, as long as the mold fills out and you size properly. Anything harder than dead soft should be fine. Range pickup works great. Save your expensive alloys for stuff that needs to be hard.

That being said, using what you have, a 1"3 chunk of your 50/50 Pb/Sn mixed with your wheel weights and the pure lead will work.

Edit:

Oh, and be sure to read the stickys in the 'lead and lead alloys' forum

[Forrest r]

I'd use the 7# of ww + the 15# of pure lead mixed together for the 45acp. Sometimes I think that adding tin & alloy hardness can be overrated.

I really don't know why anyone would want to use/shoot 2# (15bhn) alloy in a 45acp for a 230gr boolit that cruises @ the warp speed of around 900fps. I've shot nothing but 8-10bhn boolits in the 45acp/38spl/44spl/lite 357/44mag/9mm for decades without any issues/problems and a 8-12bhn alloy for hp's or mag loads in pistols.

Never automatically added tin either, just cast a few boolits from a new batch of alloy & looked at the edges/fillout. I can only remember 2 times since I've been casting (2+decades) that I've had to add tin to an alloy. I don't cast as much as allot of people on this forum, 300+ #'s a year since 1985 or roughly 8,000+ #'s of bullets.

Since 1990 my main alloy for pistol boolits has been nothing more than range lead from an outdoor pistol range. It averages in bhn from anywhere from 8 to 10bhn & simply works in 99% of the pistol calibers/loads that I use/shoot. And I've found that the 10bhn is actually too hard for some cast hp boolit applications, one of them being the 45acp.

Some 10bnh & 8bhn cast boolits for the 45acp, strait range lead/no tin.

87084

87085

The top boolit/load is a lite target load 700+fps (3.8gr bullseye) & the bottom boolit gets a 8.0gr dose of pp for a 1000fps load. The top pic is the target load 10bhn boolits. The bottom pic it the 8bhn boolits for thumper loads in the 45acp.

It only takes a couple of tight patches to clean the bbl on the 45acp with either boolit/load.

87092

I'd start with a soft alloy without tin, you can always make your alloy harder if need be.

[Garyshome]

Thanks for the posts!

[btroj]

I agree with Forrest. I would use the 7 pounds WW and the 15 pounds pure. Plenty good for 45 ACP.

I cost most of mine from straight range scrap. If I want em a bit harder I add 1/2 pound of monotype per 22 pound pot full.

I don't add tin to any alloys by choice. Never saw a need and I tend to be cheap.

[Sgtonory]

I use straight range scrap that is pretty soft and have had no issues don't add any tin or anything.

[prs]

tonysp101, Congratulation on that nice stash of expensive tin. Either the range scrap our tinless casting members above use does have a bit of tin, or they have far greater success with detail mold fill in tumble lube designs than have I. More power to them and do try it to see if you can share their good fortune. You may will need to get that mold really hot and your alloy will probably need to approach a range between 750 & 800F, but sans tin that is not detrimental. If the fine details of the tumble lube design fail to develop, then you already have the resource at hand to remediate the flaw, add enough of the solder to net a 1% to 2% tin content. The less used to achieve the desired result (crisp detail of the castings, not hardness), the better. It is a SiN to waste tin.

prs (Who's current pistol casting alloy is approx 94.5% PB, 1.5% SN, 4.5% SB.)

[ballistim]

I'd use the 7# of ww + the 15# of pure lead mixed together for the 45acp. Sometimes I think that adding tin & alloy hardness can be overrated.

I really don't know why anyone would want to use/shoot 2# (15bhn) alloy in a 45acp for a 230gr boolit that cruises @ the warp speed of around 900fps. I've shot nothing but 8-10bhn boolits in the 45acp/38spl/44spl/lite 357/44mag/9mm for decades without any issues/problems and a 8-12bhn alloy for hp's or mag loads in pistols.

Never automatically added tin either, just cast a few boolits from a new batch of alloy & looked at the edges/fillout. I can only remember 2 times since I've been casting (2+decades) that I've had to add tin to an alloy. I don't cast as much as allot of people on this forum, 300+ #'s a year since 1985 or roughly 8,000+ #'s of bullets.

Since 1990 my main alloy for pistol boolits has been nothing more than range lead from an outdoor pistol range. It averages in bhn from anywhere from 8 to 10bhn & simply works in 99% of the pistol calibers/loads that I use/shoot. And I've found that the 10bhn is actually too hard for some cast hp boolit applications, one of them being the 45acp.

Some 10bnh & 8bhn cast boolits for the 45acp, strait range lead/no tin.

87084

87085

The top boolit/load is a lite target load 700+fps (3.8gr bullseye) & the bottom boolit gets a 8.0gr dose of pp for a 1000fps load. The top pic is the target load 10bhn boolits. The bottom pic it the 8bhn boolits for thumper loads in the 45acp.

It only takes a couple of tight patches to clean the bbl on the 45acp with either boolit/load.

87092

I'd start with a soft alloy without tin, you can always make your alloy harder if need be.

I recently cast for both .45 ACP and 9mm using an alloy that came out at 8 BHN and I had very good accuracy with no leading. I'll be saving my harder lead for when I need it for other loads.

[chboats]

Why not offer to trade someone on here, your solder for ww. 10 pounds of solder should get you maybe 30 pounds of ww.

[jmort]

You could sell 10 pounds of 50/50 solder for $50.00 and get close to 50 pounds of wheel weights. I would keep it, as it is expensive to acquire and just buy some COWW ingots from a member here. I love tin. I'm pro-tin. I would even smelt some 20 to 1 if I were you. Tin is good.

[tonysp101]

Would a 20to1 mixture be good for 45acp.

[MtGun44]

forrest nails it. .45 ACP needs no hard alloy, 8 BHN range scrap, as long as it has enough
tin to cast well, will be fine as long as you fit it properly, which almost always means size
to .452 diam .

The suggestion for Lyman #2 alloy is way over the top, pretty ridiculous waste of good
alloying metals to get an alloy that is unnecessarily hard for such a low intensity cartridge.

IMO, the only requirements for .45 ACP are 1) casts well and 2) is the cheapest possible
alloy that meets #1. Nothing fancy needed.

Bill

[prs]

Bill, I agee with your 1 & 2, but the OP stipulates TL mold, he may well need 2% tin to get decent fill-out.

prs

[JWFilips]

For my 1911s I use a 50/50 mix of clip on wheel weights with a equal amount of pure lead and add about 2% tin for mold fillout. Great accuracy and no leading in several different 1911s.

That's the mix that is working magic for me ( with tumble lubing on a Lee 230Gr RN) But over all this is my go to mix for all my pistols...easy to make up and cast great

[BD]

Take all of the pure lead and WW metal you have and melt it together with about 1/2 lb of the 50/50. The .45 acp is not very particular as to alloy for most of us mere mortals, (shot any 1/2 groups at 50 yards with that .45 lately?), but a little tin will help the mold fill out nicely. If all you can find is range scrap, melt that, and add a little tin and go with it. Tin is expensive. Save your supply of 50/50 to "sweeten" whatever alloy you wind up with over time.
BD

[MtGun44]

Like I said, "if it has enough tin to cast well"

Bill

[Love Life]

For my 45 acp I use whatever melts in the pot and fills the mould. Honestly I have no idea what alloy is in that pot anymore, but it works fine from 45 acp to full tilt 357 magnum. I've just been adding stuff to it over the months.

For the majority of handguns (not including the rifle caliber single shots) for plinking ammo the whole specific hardness thing is for the birds. Fit it right, lube it well, and have fun.

For my carry rds I use 20:1.

[Echo]

If it were me, I would throw the 7 & 15 together, and add a pound of your 50/50. That would add something over 1% Sn. You would have enought alloy (23 lbs) to cast about 800 200 gr boolits, and I'll bet the alloy will be well behaved. You have the tin, use it - if you did, then you would have 23 lbs of good alloy and 49 lbs of 50/50.

[Forrest r]

20 to 1 is an excellent all around mix for handgun boolits for speeds up to 1200+fps. A 40 to 1 or 30 to 1 would also easily work in the 45acp,

40 to 1 ='s 8bhn
30 to 1 ='s 9bhn
20 to 1 ='s 10bhn
10 to 1 ='s 12bhn
coww's ='s 12bhn

A couple links to some boolit testing in the 1950's, interesting reading. They were testing different alloys & expansion in hp's. The speeds of the different alloys & how the hp performed (didn't expand /flattened/fragged) will give any caster some insight to what alloys perform the best @ what velocities/speeds.

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/44%20spl%20-%20may%201953%20american%20rifleman.pdf

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/44%20spl%20-%20oct%201953%20american%20rifleman.pdf

I understand that tl molds can be a little less than user friendly at times but the 8 different hp molds & single tl (6-cavity) mold that I use own can also be a handful at times. To me the mold temps & alloys being used are more critical with any of the hp molds that the tl mold. Rounded drive bands, incomplete hp's & boolits either sticking to the hp pins or fragging (dropped too quickly) are the name of the game with the wrong temps or alloys with the hp molds.

A couple more pics of some different cast boolits that I cast recently, I'll cast allot of boolits in the fall & cull/size them over the winter. I just cast them & put them in a can untill I get around to processing them. These are as cast with nothing done to them, no cherry picked pictures/boolits, just what boolits look like after I cast them.

Some 158gr hp's.

87181

How about some tl 9mm's.

87182

A new mold (mihec 359-125) that I cast with for the 1st time. No brushing/cleaning with soapy water or toothpaste, etc, just sprayed it down with brake cleaner, let it dry & onto the hot plate.

87183

These have been the hardest boolit I've ever cast, mihec's ness boolit.

87184

The loooong hp pin of the ness boolit makes them a challange to cast. Fill out is critical with these boolits, a ness boolit cut open to expose the loooong hp inside it.

87185

Casting tl & hp boolits takes a good alloy for proper fill out. I find that the correct alloy temp is just as important & I'll run my pot so the boolits just start to frost.

You really don't need a ton of tin or super hard alloys for pistol bullets, expecially the 45acp. Just cast for fill out & don't worry about the bhn. Don't make it harder than it is or worry about the dreaded "tl" molds that take massive quantities of tin to get them to cast right. Just start with a simple alloy & test/cast some boolits. If you don't like what you see ad some tin to it & try again until you get an alloy that works for you.

On a side note:
I use 45/45/10 & tumble lube allot of my cast boolits (plain or tl boolits). If I owned a mold that wouldn't cast a good boolit unless I had to add $$$$ tin to the mix compared to other molds. It would be gone down the road because there would be a point where it cost me more in tin than the cost of a new mold that didn't need any extra in the alloy to begin with.

[fredj338]

Use the 50/50 without the tin if it will cast. I shoot mostly range scrap in my 45acp or will mix pure lead 50/50 w/ clip WW. At any pressure level, works fine properly sized for the 45acp.

[trixter]

I have been using range scrap exclusively for about 3 years. I cast Lee TL 452-200 SWC and they work just fine. I have no idea what the bhn is and I don't particularly care, and the paper never complains. And except for the labor involved it is free.

[sparetime]

Great info. I have some watermain joint lead that I am thinking is pure lead. From what I've read here, I should see how it casts and if it doesn't fill out the mold well, add some tin. I've been over thinking this. Probably work for .38 wadcutters too.

[Hanzy4200]

I would simply cast a small batch and see how they run. I personally believe moderately soft alloy works great in the .45 ACP. I have used numerous mystery alloys of all given hardness levels, and have never had any leading issues. When I was loading commercial cast bullets, I found that all my .45's preferred the 12 BHN bullets over the 18 BHN, and would have probably done as good or better with even softer alloy. 9MM is another issue.