Advice needed on buying 9mm Mak pistol

[theperfessor]

I don't know why but recently I've gotten interested in owning a pistol chambered in 9mm Makarov. I've seen Cz82s and FEG 63s and the Polish P64 and others made in dozens of countries. Any general suggestions on what to look for or which country of origin made the best versions? I kind of like the looks of the original Russian version. I don't care about a high cap version, 7-8 shots is fine. Getting additional magazines is important also.

Any recommendations on what to get or where to get more info?

[Artful]

Good choice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAEbbhRJNYw
Here's good links to start
http://www.makarov.com/makfaq.html

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?46-The-Makarov-Forum

http://pistolsmith.com/makarov-pistols/

http://www.gunsnet.net/forumdisplay.php?57-Makarov-amp-Tokarev-Pistols

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?46-The-Makarov-Forum

My vote either Russian or East German Mak if you can find one, Bulgarian would be next on the list - if you can't find a true Mak the CZ is a nice little gun.

[2wheelDuke]

I'm fond of the "real" Russian Makarov myself, but it may not be easy or cheap to find. The E. German are good, and I don't mind the Bulgarian either.

After that, I like the PA 63. In stock form they're not great t shoot, but Wolff springs are easy to install, and make a world of difference.

The CZ 82 may be the easiest to get a hold of at a good price, and it's a great little gun.

The P64 is more of a picket pistol, and feels smaller than the others to me. Still, it's a cool little gun.

Magazine availability can be pretty hot or miss for all of the above.

[opos]

Very partial to the Bulgarian myself..have owned a couple..solid, accurate as can be and pretty much indestructible...I'm on the hunt for another one right now...never should have traded the last one..Keep the firing pin channel clean...they have no firing pin spring..the pin free floats...not a weakness but just something to remember...I never owned a Polish, Chinese, Russian or German but I hear they are all good but the Russian, Bulgarian and German are supposed to be the best. The little 9x18 cartridge is great...I shot "silver bear" in mine and never had any issues at all...cheap and accurate.

[HATCH]

Russian military (fixed rear sites)
East German
Bulgarian
Chinese
Russian commercial (adj rear sites)

Those are what I would choose in that order.
If it's not on the list then don't buy it.
All of the above are 9x18 and use the same mags.

Don't buy high cap unless it comes with three or four mags

[olereb]

I have 2 Polish P-64's and love them,i bought the second soon as I got home from test firing the first one that I bought. Mags are not hard to get,keepshooting.com has brand new ones that they designed that are excellent,they aren't always instock but when they sell out they get more pretty quick. I also like the Russian Makarovs but don't have any at this time,i prefer the smaller package of the P-64.

[wv109323]

I have a FEG PA-63. It is light and accurate. It is so light that the recoil is noticeable, about like a "K" frame S&W .357 Mag.. Russian hollowpoint ammo will not work in the PA-63 mags. The COAL is OK but the ogive of the bullet hits the rounded front of the mag. DA pull must be 20 pounds. My pistol has a problem. The hammer follows the slide to half cock. Parts are expensive. I would advise something else.

[TCLouis]

Perfessor git yerself a CZ82 and smile as you revel in the feel in you hand.

Feels like it was meant to be held and shot.

AND ya can get 12 shots in the magazine.

[rintinglen]

I like the PA 63 and the CZ 82 more than I like any of the Maks, but I'd get the East German or Bulgarian makes, not the Chinese. IME, the Chinese guns are much more troublesome.

[2wheelDuke]

I have a FEG PA-63. It is light and accurate. It is so light that the recoil is noticeable, about like a "K" frame S&W .357 Mag.. Russian hollowpoint ammo will not work in the PA-63 mags. The COAL is OK but the ogive of the bullet hits the rounded front of the mag. DA pull must be 20 pounds. My pistol has a problem. The hammer follows the slide to half cock. Parts are expensive. I would advise something else.

The Wolff spring kit makes it a whole different gun. I'm not sure why you've got the problem with it not staying cocked.

I tested the Silver Bear hollowpoints in a redneck rigged water tank. They didn't expand at all. The Hornady did expand as advertised in the same test.

I like the Ranch Dog 9x18 boolits alot.

[mac60]

The East German guns are finished better than the Russian guns, but they're both equally reliable. The Cz82 holds 12 and the P64 holds 6. I own both and I prefer the Cz82 - it's not a matter of mag. capacity, the Cz82 feels better in the hand and shoots better for me. Magazines for PM's as well as the Cz82 and P64 are available, but they don't grow on trees.

[Fishman]

I have owned a russian commercial and a east german for 20 years now and just picked up a Bulgafian. The east german is finely finished but the russian has better target sights. They are qjute accurate due to the fixed barrel and the relatively large size for the power of the cartridge. As far as the guns chambered in 9 mm Mak that arent makarovs, I have not owned one.

I really like mine and wont be selling them anytime soon. Always fun to shoot

[Fishman]

I have owned a russian commercial and a east german for 20 years now and just picked up a Bulgarian. The east german is finely finished but the russian has better target sights. They are qjute accurate due to the fixed barrel and the relatively large size for the power of the cartridge. As far as the guns chambered in 9 mm Mak that arent makarovs, I have not owned one but it sounds like some sre pretty nice.

I really like mine and wont be selling them anytime soon. Always fun to shoot

[MtGun44]

The two Polish P64s that I have handled were quite memorable pistols. . . . . . . .

Because they each had literally about a 20 lb trigger pull. At first, I thought
the safety HAD to be on, but no - the triggers were AMAZINGLY heavy. Never
actually shot either one, or really wanted to. Other than that, they seemed
like typical comblock guns . . . . rough but likely to work.

Bill

[theperfessor]

I appreciate all the input and the links and videos and everything else you guys have posted. I have done a lot of reading and checking online for what is available. I've also determined that fixed sights will be fine, I will work up a reliable load that shoots where I aim it and that's it.

I am leaning toward a Russian or East German military Mak as my first choice.

I've read so many good reports about the Cz82 that I would consider one of those.

It will depend on the cost for the total package - magazines, accessories, etc.

[ballistim]

I bought an unissued German Makarov in the 90's and it's a great gun. I qualified for my CPL range test using it and the instructor was impressed by its accuracy using it and he was impressed by its accuracy and how I well I was able to shoot with it. I've had great accuracy using Russian FMJ, Silver Bear, and handloads using AA2 & XTP's. I'll check out the Wolff springs as I've shot it so much that I might be needing a change. Someone told me he believed the fixed barrel contributes to its accuracy. Cases are hard to come by & have read here and elsewhere on making brass from 9mm brass and I have plenty of that to work with so I'm planning on giving that a try and want to pick up a mold to cast for it as well. I wish I'd bought another when they were reasonable.

[MtGun44]

If one of the two is a locked breech gun, I'd choose that one. If you have ever shot
a PPK vs a locked breech but much lighter pistol, you'd recognize that the locked
breech has a LOT less recoil. I have handled a CZ 82 and it was a very nice feeling
pistol, but I don't know if either a Mak or the CZ82 are locked breech. If it was me -
that would make a big diff.

Bill

[W.R.Buchanan]

Fess: I have to second the CZ 82 notion. J&G Sales in Prescott has them for a reasonable price and they are easily twice the gun a Mak is.

That said I have had a Russian Mak for 25 years and it is a good gun after you take it apart and deburr everything. I also installed an aftermarket threaded barrel and a compensator.

It is an easy gun to hit with, but not easy to run efficiently as there are lots of share edges to cut you. The CZ is much more friendly to your hands. The mag release is a pita and you'll see a split ring in mine that makes it easier to get ahold of to dump the mag.

The compensator actually makes a noticeable difference both in handling and shooting, and the deburr job and trigger job that was done when installing the barrel made all the difference in the world.

As far as Maks go My best to worst list is East German double stack is the best by far. The EG single stack is next and then Bulgarian, and Russian,,,, and nobody cares below that.

They are worth the money and as I remember mine was about $180.

Just remember ,,, There is no word for "Deburring" in the Russian Dialect. The break in period for a Ural Motorcycle is 20,000 miles!

Randy

[AviatorTroy]

I enjoy my Bulgarian Mak, it's so reliable and functional that it's almost boring to shoot! Accurate enough for me anyway. Never got around to casting for it, ammo was always so cheap. I do intend to try the RanchDog mold for it at some point.

[Dutchman]

I jumped on this East German Mak when AIM (in Ohio) had them for $130. They sold out fast. Bought a couple spare magazines with it. Bought two military holsters for it. Acquired a complete armorer's spare parts kit for it. Snagged not only an excellent copy of the original East German military user's manual but an excellent copy of the original East German armorer's manual. Both in Deutschespeak. At a gunshow bought 900 rds East German iron core j-type ammo (purportedly armorer piercing due to the iron core). I am rather fond of this Makarov pistol. I've handled and fired the Cz82. More complicated than the Mak. You can't really have a Mak attack with a Czech pistol nor can you assuage Mak fever with a Czech or Polish pistol. It must be a Mak. Accept no substitutes!

http://images107.fotki.com/v780/photos/4/28344/12582412/photo-vi.jpg

I've also owned a Russian Ij70 .380 acp. Fit and function was just dandy but the rear adjustable sight was overbearing. I sold it to my brother-in-law and bought the genuine real deal East German Mak.

I must say that I'm also quite taken by my m/1934 Beretta .380 acp. One of the Romanian contract guns from 1941 in excellent condition. It handles extremely nice and I have a hard time deciding which I prefer over the other, the Mak or the Beretta. The Beretta is more compact and sits lower in the hand. The Mak is double action. I guess I'll keep them both.

http://images41.fotki.com/v1577/photos/4/28344/12582412/photo2-vi.jpg

http://images19.fotki.com/v1611/photos/4/28344/12582412/photo6-vi.jpg

This is the Russian Ij70 .380 acp.
http://images19.fotki.com/v276/photos/4/28344/12582412/photo5-vi.jpg

[bigdog454]

have a PA-63 that I put a .380 bbl on, makes a great carry gun for me.
BD

[Wayne Smith]

Prof, I have a Bulgarian and a Russian Commercial and a CZ82. I carry the CZ when I carry an auto. Just seems more comfortable.

[mtnman31]

CZ-82 is my vote. I carried one concealed before I moved to my current not-so-free state. If I was a bigger guy, I'd carry a bigger gun. The CZ is very concealable on my 160lb frame. It is also very comfortable in my hand. I shot a Russian Mak prior to my CZ purhase and that sealed the deal. The Russian Mak was not comfortable at all and really dug into the web between my thumb and forefinger. Recoil of the Mak was snappy for a small gun. I'm sure they are equally reliable so I had to go with comfort. It took a little looking around but I found some spare mags for the CZ at a reasonable price. I shoot cast through its polygonal barrel and have never had a problem. I have the Lee Mak mold and a Lee group buy mold that Catshooter honcho'd a couple years back. Both the bullet designs work great. For holster, I have an IWB that I purchased from a guy who makes and sells leather goods on eBay. My only real complaint of the CZ has been the finish. It is coated/painted in some sort of semi glossy black. It seems durable enough but just doesn't look very refined. One of htese days I'll strip it and use a bake on finish like KG. All in all, the CZ has been one of my best values in gun purchases and also oneof my favorites.

[Grapeshot]

I've had two of them, a Chinese that I bought in 1991 and a Bulgarian I got in 2011 for twice the amount I paid for the Chinese model.
Both are accurate. The Bulgarian Mak lost the front sight during a shooting session using Brown Bear ammo. I had it replaced with a fiber optic sight that was a bit higher than the original, but now I could SEE the front sight. With my old eyes this made the difference when it comes to hitting the target in a night tight cluster. Ammo and brass to reload was almost impossible to find at first, so I have taken nickeled 9mm Para brass I salvaged from the indoor range and shortened by 1mm and loaded with a Berry's Bullet 95 gr TMJ over a charge of AA#7. This is a very accurate load. I'm going to try using Auto Comp to see if I can use less and get the same results.