PC and sizing- what's your sequence?

[el34]

I'm using bangerjim's suggestion to size after casting, no lube, then PC (ES). PC adds about 0.002". I had an assumption that I wouldn't need to size again but now I'm doubting that.

And I had a horrible time pushing my 230gr 45s through the 0.452 Lee sizer with no lube.

Do you size after PCing?
Do you size before PCing? Lubed?
Maybe cast, PC, then size?

[shadowcaster]

While I have yet to do do my 1st powder coating, soon I hope, I have read that some guys tumble the still warm PC'd boolits with a pinch of JPW to make sizing easier.

Shad

[popper]

I size after coating, 0.313 to 0.310 w GC, no problem. No problem with 40 either. Is your sizer clean?

[felix]

I've purchased electrocuted (graphited) boolits several times by the thousands. Magma designed boolits shoot fine in my revolters, so why not purchase them like when they are cheaper than my time. I always size, lube and load them along with my uncoated boolits for the guns they are destined. I shoot these loads either slow or fast, depending on the mood of the day. Accuracy not a nickel's worth of difference. ... felix

[bangerjim]

While I have yet to do do my 1st powder coating, soon I hope, I have read that some guys tumble the still warm PC'd boolits with a pinch of JPW to make sizing easier.

Shad

Problem with that is the JPW will keep the PC from sticking and you have to rinse in laq thinner at least 2 times to get rid of the wax! Wax is a beeetch to get off.

Dry sizing will NOT lead you die. Just think about it......how could s-l-o-w-l-y pushing a soft (relative to steel) lead slug thru a MUCH harder steel polished die at <0.5 fps cause leading??????

If you try to cram a MUCH larger slug thru, you MAY get galling. But if you slugs are dropping way oversize for your die, you need to totally examine/check your mold and/or get a larger die. And that all hinges on the slugging size you get from your gun's.

I have dry sized thousands of boolits in 223/9/30/38/40/45 cals and have NEVER observed a single spot of lead in my many dies.

If you MUST use a lube for an oversize mold you have, the easiest thing to use as far as after-sizing clean-up is Dawn.......just rinse your sized slugs in HOT water afterwards and let dry!

My tired and proven method for all the cal's I make is:

cast......cool
size
PC......cool
size

Load 'em and shoot 'em.

Good shooting!


banger

[shadowcaster]

Problem with that is the JPW will keep the PC from sticking and you have to rinse in laq thinner at least 2 times to get rid of the wax! Wax is a beeetch to get off.

What I read was use JPW on the final sizing AFTER all the PC'ing is done.

Shad

[Freightman]

What I read was use JPW on the final sizing AFTER all the PC'ing is done.

Shad
Why? I dry coat, bake, then size and I have done several 1000, keep it simple and clean.

[shadowcaster]

Why? I dry coat, bake, then size and I have done several 1000, keep it simple and clean.

The OP wanted a suggestion for easier sizing and I told him what I read.


el34..
And I had a horrible time pushing my 230gr 45s through the 0.452 Lee sizer with no lube.

I am hoping to do some PC'ing myself real soon.. I guess I'll have to see for myself.

Shad

[el34]

I'm not worried about leading a sizer die from using it with no lube. Like banger, most of my dry boolits in 3 calibers slid through the dies, unlubed, with no problem.

I need to find out what the final objective is, when boolits are PC'd. Some people load and shoot lubed boolits as cast, making me think lead slugs are more tolerant of being a little too big than jacketed bullets.

So maybe cast-drysize-PC-load is fine even though the PC adds a couple thousanths. If that's undesirable, sizing needs to be the last step before loading.

So if I decide to load boolits of a calibrated and consistent size, sizing must follow PC. Then comes the question- what bad thing can happen sizing after PC'ing unsized boolits? Would that be asking too much of the die? And I'm assuming the PC would be as good as lube for the die.

Thanks for all the responses, I respect all the posters. Making good PC boolits efficiently is maybe still a moving target.

[williamwaco]

problem with that is the jpw will keep the pc from sticking and you have to rinse in laq thinner at least 2 times to get rid of the wax! Wax is a beeetch to get off.

dry sizing will not lead you die. just think about it......how could s-l-o-w-l-y pushing a soft (relative to steel) lead slug thru a much harder steel polished die at <0.5 fps cause leading??????

If you try to cram a much larger slug thru, you may get galling. But if you slugs are dropping way oversize for your die, you need to totally examine/check your mold and/or get a larger die. And that all hinges on the slugging size you get from your gun's.

i have dry sized thousands of boolits in 223/9/30/38/40/45 cals and have never observed a single spot of lead in my many dies.

if you must use a lube for an oversize mold you have, the easiest thing to use as far as after-sizing clean-up is dawn.......just rinse your sized slugs in hot water afterwards and let dry!

My tired and proven method for all the cal's i make is:

Cast......cool
size
pc......cool
size

load 'em and shoot 'em.

Good shooting!


Banger


ditto

[MacFan]

I cast, size dry, PC, size dry. All Lee stuff.
Most of my rounds are 45acp 230gn. RN.

If I'm feeling ambitious (seldom) I may add some Dawn to the first sizing and rinse with hot water.

[500MAG]

Size-PC-size-load

[el34]

Size-PC-size-load

Well, that seems to be the majority. Nothing wrong with it, the lazy in me was hoping to not need the final size. And that would put another +1 on the PC vs lube comparison chart. I've loaded xx hundred that way but haven't shot them yet.

[bangerjim]

What I read was use JPW on the final sizing AFTER all the PC'ing is done.

Shad

I have not done ANY research on this but have brought it up in previous thread comments:

My concern with after PC coating with JPW is what will the volatile components in the wax do to the PC longterm? With the JPW in the grooves and the boolit crammed in the case for however long it is B4 you shoot it.....will the JPW soften the PC?

I do not know.

Hope somebody tries it and posts some data.

I use JPW in my wood finishing shop and to "coat" all the steel tables of my power tools to allow the wood to slide easier. And over hand-rubbed lacquer finished on antiques I restore.

I do not use it in my loading workshop.

banger

[el34]

Surrendering to the requirement to size after PC, I'm hoping the PC is slick enough and tough enough to not need any lube. But if that doesn't work I'm thinking about something that can be tumbled on, like case lube or teflon spray. Wouldn't take long for whatever solvents they have to evaporate.

Might try popper's and freightman's method.

[Beagle333]

I been PC'ing mine as-dropped. Then size back down before loading... sometimes as much as 4 thou, but with no problems yet. They slide right through the die with no apparent effect on the coating.
I don't know if I'm doing it "right".... but it's working so far.

[500MAG]

I would be careful about what you put on afterwards, like Banger said, we don't know of the effect to the PC. I do know that the flat black PC is not affected by solvents where as the gloss colors are. I know this because I accidentally poured acetone into a bowl of gloss PC'd boolits and it started taking the PC off. Remembering this, I tried to use both acetone and then paint thinner to remove the PC of the flat black PC boolits, due to them falling over during baking, and it didn't touch them even after soaking for a week.

[bangerjim]

I would be careful about what you put on afterwards, like Banger said, we don't know of the effect to the PC. I do know that the flat black PC is not affected by solvents where as the gloss colors are. I know this because I accidentally poured acetone into a bowl of gloss PC'd boolits and it started taking the PC off. Remembering this, I tried to use both acetone and then paint thinner to remove the PC of the flat black PC boolits, due to them falling over during baking, and it didn't touch them even after soaking for a week.

I like ALL my boolits like my coffee........black!

bamger

[el34]

I like ALL my boolits like my coffee........black!

bamger

bamger?

[bangerjim]

bamger?

I said I cud spell......didn't say I cud type!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [smilie=b:

bangerbummer

[fcvan]

Cast, coat, size, load, shoot, recover, repeat.

[alfloyd]

Cast, coat, size, load, shoot, recover, repeat.

I do it like this also. Have not had any problems at all.

Lafaun

[Balta]

Cast,coat,size,load....and shoot!

[badbill2]

I just finished sizing some PC 45 and 45/70 and was very concerned about pushing them thru the sizer as they were all .003 to .005 over due to the PC coat. No lube and the Lee sizer did the job with very little effort.

[waco]

I almost stuck a NOE360477 in my 450 the other day. It was about .365" and I was sizing to .358"

On the rest of that batch I sprayed some Hornady one shot case lube on the boolits before sizing.

They went through much smoother after that.

Waco

[bangerjim]

I just finished sizing some PC 45 and 45/70 and was very concerned about pushing them thru the sizer as they were all .003 to .005 over due to the PC coat. No lube and the Lee sizer did the job with very little effort.

Excellent!

the PC coat reminds me of almost a TFE coating. It will slide thru the sizing dies with a thicker coat, will not come off, and requires very little effort to get the slugs thru there.

I have sized a ton of slugs of 6 different cals and have never had any of the coating come off. And have never had any of them require any unusual force at all to size.

Using a lube just adds another clean-up step to the process. Which means less time at the range!!!! :Fire:

banger

[waco]

Excellent!

the PC coat reminds me of almost a TFE coating. It will slide thru the sizing dies with a thicker coat, will not come off, and requires very little effort to get the slugs thru there.

I have sized a ton of slugs of 6 different cals and have never had any of the coating come off. And have never had any of them require any unusual force at all to size.

Using a lube just adds another clean-up step to the process. Which means less time at the range!!!! :Fire:

banger

so what are you using to size with?
I've had a couple close calls in my 450
but, like I said, a shot of case lube and all is good.

[popper]

Consider you've size the case neck for the proper neck tension, then push an oversized boolit in. You size either the case or the boolit on loading. Not a good idea.

[bangerjim]

so what are you using to size with?
I've had a couple close calls in my 450
but, like I said, a shot of case lube and all is good.

I just use the standard old Lee sizing dies in a single stage Lee press for everything I shoot.

I coat ONLY once, so the coat thickness is very minimal, yet I have no leading or problems.

How many spray coats did you use to get .007 thick coat????? You should not need anything that thick.

I do NOT use any lube when sizing. I size after casting and then after PC'ing. No lube..........ever.

Problem with lube..........we do not know what any of it (JPW, case, etc) will do long term to the PC that is down in the neck of the case! It could soften it up over time and void all our work when shooting it. I have found no research/results on here by anyone on this potential softening problem. So I do not use any lube at all.

banger

[bstone5]

Cast, Powder Coat, Size and Install Cola Can Gas checks.

Have made over 10,000 cast bullets this way. Never have sized before powder coating.

Lube the powder coated bullets with very little lanolin to easy before going through Lee push through sizer.

[Springfield0612]

I Cast, PC, Size, Load.

I recently opened up 2 Lee sizing dies using lapping compound, coating boolits and repeatedly passing them thru the die, refressing the lapping compound once the bullets start to slide through easily. One die I was taking from .309"-.3115" To ensure that I had a good solid .3115" I took three 9mm Lee 356-124-RNTL unsized at ~.3575" but coated 2X with 45-45-10 at ~12BHN. I swagged them puppies through that .3115" die and they came out clean as a whistle. No leading in the die, no galling, nice and clean. I was able to verify that I had in deed opened it up to .3115". Now all the extra lead that would not squish through the die ended up in a nice ring around the base of the push through stem, but that came off by turning the stem upside down and pushing it down with my fingernail. So case in point .3575" into .3115" with no leading, galling, or any other issues. I don't think a PC'd boolit that is .003" over size is going to mess up your sizing die one bit.

BTW I was using my Lee Classic Cast Turret press for the swagging. The press is fine. The 2X4 that it is mounted to on my bench creaked, groaned, poped, and crackled a bit.

[el34]

I size after casting and then after PC'ing.
banger

Banger, what's the reason for sizing pre-PC? Just curious, you're good at simplifying so I assume there's a purpose.

[bangerjim]

Occasionally, there will be a boolit or two that are not quite on-size. Don't know why, but by sizing after casting catches all those an guarantees all my PC's slugs will be dead on.

It only takes a little more time to guarantee to me all my finished PC'd slugs are perfect and ready for easy loading.

You can skip it if you want. That is just the way I have always done it.

banger

[el34]

Occasionally, there will be a boolit or two that are not quite on-size. Don't know why, but by sizing after casting catches all those an guarantees all my PC's slugs will be dead on.

It only takes a little more time to guarantee to me all my finished PC'd slugs are perfect and ready for easy loading.

You can skip it if you want. That is just the way I have always done it.

banger

So far I've done all my boolits that way based on your earlier posts. And before I started PC I was aware that some boolits went through the sizer easier than others so I was glad I was making them uniform.

Then started thinking- if sizing doesn't harm the PC, maybe just sizing afterwards is all it takes. They would wind up uniform and at the happy diameter.