I miss Vienna...

[brotherdarrell]

well, parts of it at least.

The last week of Sept I spent in 6 days in Vienna and one day in Munich. It was my older brothers 50th birthday and I flew over with my mother, sister and two of her friends to celebrate with him and his Viennese wife. I have spent the last month trying to decide if I enjoyed the trip or not and I decided that some parts were and others weren't, big surprise, huh?

I thought I would share some casual observations.

Oktoberfest in Munich was a mad house, to say the least. I am just a poor country mouse and never imagined the sheer mass of humanity that I was walking into. I came out of it with two observations:

Germans are capable of having fun, stereotypes be darned.

That would never go over here in southern NM, at least on that level. There would be gun fire and fights all over the place. They were the most peaceful and happy drunks I have ever seen.

Other observations:

Much is made of the US no longer being the fattest people. I now understand. In a weeks time I saw one person who could be labeled as obese. The vast majority were not even close to being over-weight. I attribute this not to healthier food but serving size. Every place we ate serving sizes were easily half of what we eat here. Makes one think.

Speaking of food I had some of the best meals I have ever eaten while there. My first meal was sausage, cubed potatoes and sauerkraut (imagine that). I was shocked at what they did with the potatoes, butter and a saute pan. It brought tears of joy.

The people themselves were politely rude. Wouldn't give you the time of day for the most part but they never gave you an excuse to punch them in the mouth. Very confusing.

Most spoke passable English and knew at least three languages. I think my sister-in-law speaks five. She is an interpreter.

Chestnut trees are impressive, the nuts not so much.

If you are going to drive you must be at least half crazy, three quarters would be better. My brother has lived there for six years and still has the wife drive when they go into Vienna proper. It is no place for a super-duty, duallys especially. There are two different types of trollies and three types of trains, I think. If you don't know german don't bother trying to get a ticket, just take your chances.

If you like pastries Vienna is the place for you. Even the McDonalds has a display that would make your eyes bug out. Speaking of McDs they are everywhere. Along with BurgerKing you can't avoid them. In the old part of Vienna and Munich about one every two blocks, seriously.

If you order water you have to be specific. 'Water' will get you soda water. "Still water" will get you regular old drinking water. If you want ice you have to ask for it, and you will get 3 or 4 cubes. Iced drinks are almost unheard of. Same with colas, you have to ask for ice.

Coffee. Vienna is world famous for coffee and I don't think they know what a drip machine is. Every thing comes from a machine that snorts and slobbers steam, McD's included. It's better than anything from Starbucks but way below Folgers Columbian from a drip machine, in my opinion.

I am 6'2", and in most crowds one of the taller people locally. Over there I was just average. I saw many women well over 6'. Kinda nice not having to bend over to talk to someone.

The stores carried just three bourbons: Jim Beam (good), Jack Daniels ( ok in a pinch) and Makers Mark ( would rather drink soda water). I think they should be introduced to Wild Turkey 101. Other liquors were too numerous to count.

Roasted Duck skin and fat. I have always heard that it was a delicacy......and it is!!!! That was my meal at Oktoberfest and it was beyond description. The best meal I had was at my brothers favorite Italian place. Linguini w/cream & mushroom sauce. The pasta was hand made. Words cannot describe.

Raw tuna is way over-rated. Smoked eel is doable. Real pretzels rock, especially with beer.

Ok, beer. I have always heard it was better in the old country. I figured it was just different, and it is(talking draft beer). First of all it was all lower alcohol so you could drink more if so inclined. When you got a mug there was only a quarter inch or so of foam, much less filling. It was room temperature. Now I am not talking southern NM room temp, closer to US/Canadian border room temp. It took all of about three minutes to get used to. Was it better?.................without a doubt in this world it was the best beer I have ever drank in my life, all of it, light or dark. I sometimes wake up at night thinking of the beer I had at the Oktoberfest meal.
86956

So, was it a good trip? Yeah. I got to visit with my brother who I usually only get to see every couple of years. I traveled with four women and survived. This was my first trip out of the country and was un-eventful for the most part. Not sure I will ever do it again. My sister wants to go to St. Petersburg for her 50th, I said "have a good trip".

There were two highlights, one expected the other unexpected. The unexpected happened in Chicago of all places. We flew in from Dusseldorf and had to clear customs. My sister and I got through at the same time. We looked at each other and sort of giggled. We never thought setting foot back on US soil would feel so good. The best part of the trip happend at 11:15 pm when I pulled up to my house, stepped out and got a big lung full of my southern NM desert night air. I was home!!!

Darrell

hope I didn't bore ya.

[Fishman]

Wow! Loved the description of your trip. Thanks for sharing.

[ph4570]

A stellar report. Thanks for the share.

[uscra112]

Made me think of my too-few-and-all-too-short business trips to Germany, back when I worked for Zeiss.

Friday night at a 14th century Rathaus in Goettingen, packed with happily drunken Germans, and yes, by God, singing "Edelweiss" in parts at full volume. Every darned one of them knew all the words, (except me!). (I never knew there were parts to Edelweiss.) There are no jukeboxes in Germany. No need.

Goose dinner for some holiday or other. (Germans have at least 3 times as many holidays as we do!) Appetizer is the usual stellar German bread with a half-cup of straight, lightly salted goose grease instead of butter. They claim that schnapps helps digest the grease, which is why they drink so much of it.

And the beer of course. Breweries in every town over 1000 people, always fresh. They just don't drink flaschbier. Flaschbier is for export to those primitive Americans.

I too wonder why you so rarely see an obese German. Bread, beer, sausages, potatoes, goose, I'd weigh 300 lbs within 3 months!

Forget Spain, forget Italy, forget France. If I am ever sent to Europe again, drop me with German-speakers.

[Artful]

Nice writeup - my advise - go to St Petersburg ;-)

And if you go to France - get out of Paris

[MtGun44]

I like Germany, have not spent any significant amount of time in Austria, been through it a
few times while heading somewhere else. I have Vienna and Buda-Pest on my list for my next
trip.

St Petersburg is pretty interesting, for Russia. Worth a visit, although the Hermitage Museum,
while a heck of a neat museum, is a massive mental overload, way, way too much stuff for a single
day. St. Issac's cathedral is extremely impressive on par with (although it is a bit smaller) St.
Peter's in Rome, and you don't want to miss a trip on the canal boats that run you all around
the city through the river and canals. Take the tour bus out to the Catherine Palace, otherwise
parking is impossible and you can't get tickets quickly. Plan at least a few hours (separate trip
from Catherine Palace) to see the park around Catherine Palace. We saw Swan Lake (ballet) and it
was sort of interesting, but I actually think they did it better in Odessa. I can take only so much of
ballet - glad we did it but won't bother again. Peterhoff via the hydrofoil from downtown on the
Niva is a nice run. The palace is pretty darned impressive, the fountains and gardens are really
nice. St. Pete traffic is a total disaster so the hydrofoil is far quicker over and back. Lots to
see. Just remember that Russia is a problematic country and be very careful of yourself.

Bill

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

r trip!

[R.M.]

Did you make it to the Haufbrau House? Been to Munich a few times and always go there. One of Hitler's meeting places.

[montana_charlie]

I don't drink beer.
But, I sure did when I was in Germany ... a lot of it.

[jcwit]

Thanks so much for sharing, its always interesting to hear how others outside the U.S. from 1st hand experience.

[MT Gianni]

Mozart's birthday is another hopping time in Austria. I would love to go someday just for the choral music.

[JeffinNZ]

"Coffee. Vienna is world famous for coffee and I don't think they know what a drip machine is. Every thing comes from a machine that snorts and slobbers steam, McD's included. It's better than anything from Starbucks but way below Folgers Columbian from a drip machine, in my opinion."

It's called espresso. It's the only way if you can.

[brotherdarrell]

Did you make it to the Haufbrau House? Been to Munich a few times and always go there. One of Hitler's meeting places.

Ah, the Haufbrau Haus!!!! Yes, I was there for about 20 minutes. That is 20 minutes I will never get back. 4 1/2 hours at the Oktoberfest grounds fighting the mob, 2 hours walking the old part of Munich searching and then finding a place with somewhere between 4 & 6 thousand people singing, drinking and eating!!!!! Throw in an Oom-pa-pa band with the speakers set on 11 with standing room only. That was the point I mentally checked out.

You must understand, I am a-social on my best day and always very introverted. It is not that I don't like being around people but that I have a very limited capacity before I have to get away and re-charge. To be fair, I have never seen that many people have that much harmless fun. Me and my mom were probably the only two people in that place that weren't having an absolute blast. It was an experience to say the least.

Darrell

[starmac]

Brotherdarrel You have already told me all I ever need to know about Germany. So far all I liked about your trip sounds like the potatoes, I can get good taters here. lol

[jaysouth]

Your observations about European serving sizes are spot on. My wife and I got back on Monday from a couple of weeks in Belgium and France. The serving portions are half the size of ours and twice the price.

I went to Lille for the first time. The most interesting thing about that city is the extraordinary number of tall good looking women. I would have made a grand fool of myself if the wife was not present. I did make a fool out of myself at the Neuhaus chocolate factory in Brussels. Unlimited free samples of all the chocolates that they make.

[WallyM3]

That was a wonderful travel log. Hope you get out more often!

[alamogunr]

Your observations about European serving sizes are spot on. My wife and I got back on Monday from a couple of weeks in Belgium and France. The serving portions are half the size of ours and twice the price.

I went to Lille for the first time. The most interesting thing about that city is the extraordinary number of tall good looking women. I would have made a grand fool of myself if the wife was not present. I did make a fool out of myself at the Neuhaus chocolate factory in Brussels. Unlimited free samples of all the chocolates that they make.

This could account for the lack of obesity. We were in Italy and Vienna a couple of years ago and when we returned, I made the comment that there were more obese people in our small county than we encountered on our whole trip.

[btroj]

It isn't just serving sizes. Many in other countries eat far more fresh food, less prepared food. They also tend to walk more and ride in cars less.

Different lifestyle, makes a difference.

We noticed a lack of obesity when in Italy this fall.

[bearcove]

AH! a Brot, Brochen and a small beir

[alamogunr]

It isn't just serving sizes. Many in other countries eat far more fresh food, less prepared food. They also tend to walk more and ride in cars less.

Different lifestyle, makes a difference.

We noticed a lack of obesity when in Italy this fall.

That is the other thing we noticed, more people walking and riding bikes.

[brotherdarrell]

I was in a grocery store walking around an absolutely monstrous cheese selection wondering how they could be as thin as they were!!!!

I think I should also point out that I did not see anyone who could be called "skinny". The most common clothes the women wore were tights and skinny jeans and curves were by all accounts present and they were in all the right places!!! I saw no women who had angles!!! The people, in general, were much lighter framed than what I am used to.

This was in Austria. In Germany they tended a little on the heavier framed side. I saw a couple of young men on the train platform who looked like they could play offensive line for just about any NFL team in the country. Them were some big ole boys about 6'5" and pushing 280 - 300 lbs. without a whole lot of fat on them.

Darrell

[bearcove]

That is the other thing we noticed, more people walking and riding bikes.

In town each road had a bike path then a sidewalk. We are starting to do this but it is mostly pointless because things are too spread out. They have small towns so you can walk to the store or ride your bike.

[starmac]

We have bike paths everywhere, but their must be something wrong with them, as they are empty and all the bikes are in the road.

[WallyM3]

Part of it can be explained by relative size. Germany, for example, covers 137,000 sq. mi. The USA covers 3,800,000 square miles. European rail systems are generally of good quality and accessible. In the USA, fuggedaboudit.

Americans like their space. Europeans never had it.

There is a large cultural gap at work.

How many of us could bicycle to work, shop, visit...hunt?

[starmac]

In the cities a lot of people could, It seems like a lot do use public transportation in the larger cities a lot. There are a lot of people here that ride bicycles everywhere to work, probably because they lost their license for some reason. lol
The buses even have bike racks, so that they can ride their bike to the bus stop and take a bus the rest of the way. lol

I notice in Canada a lot more people walk and hitch hike than the US by far, at least western Canada.

[WallyM3]

When I lived in Manhattan, I used to love traveling by subway. Seen everything! And got where I needed to go faster than any alternative in that city. I also drove (a bit) and walked (a lot). When I lived in Providence, I walked to work because I lived downtown. When I lived in Hartford, same.

When I moved to Vermont...not so much, and 4-wheel drive rules...if you want to get anywhere, anytime, under any conditions. Which one occasionally needs to do.

We really aren't a country of cities, though. Not like Europe, so there's a false comparison there. Nonetheless, that doesn't absolve the lazy and out-of shape.

[uscra112]

The walking thing - one thing that I learned about Germany is there is no such thing as an American suburb, where every trip anywhere is by car. My friends explained that Germany has far too little cropland, so converting any of it to housing is streng verboten. Even if you own some, you can never get the Landkreise (county government) to approve building a dwelling. So everybody lives in clusters, and every cluster has it's bakery, butcher shop (fleischer), vegetable market, and of course brewery. And you walk everywhere, unless you are going to another town or city. (And of course gas is six or seven bucks a gallon.)

Goettingen was almost like living in an open-air shopping mall. It never suffered during WW2, so all the old buildings are there. I was there for a month. One time we ate in a small restaurant at lunchtime, and I remarked an interesting mural on the wall. I asked about it.
Hans-Dieter: "That's about a peasant uprising in the 1300s."
Me: "Oh, when was it made?"
Hans-Dieter: "About 1460".
No kidding. They've preserved it for 600 years, and yet it's not a museum, it's a working restaurant! And that's the NEW stuff. In Regensburg is a stone chapel alongside the cathedral. It's Roman. They still use it, and think little of it.

I was born and raised in Boston. We treasured stuff as being ancient when it was only 200 years old. Kinda fixed my perspective a bit.

[WallyM3]

One's artifacts can't be older than one's human history. I think it's the appreciation of those things, anywhere, that I admire most.

[Frosty Boolit]

After my visitation to a soldier in the Bayern area I came home and started to brew my own beer. Also I like the description of being politely rude, I find that most Europeans are this way although our group had a guy threatening a beating to us on a train and the one person that was with us that could speak German told him he was drunk and that threr were five of us and one of him so he backed down.

[Czech_too]

I've had the good fortune of being able to visit the Czech Republic twice, hoping for a third. If a person was only visiting Prague(Praha), then there would be no need for a car. There are any number of things to do, sites to see and one only needs to use the public transportation to get around, that and their feet. I would hesitate to take a structured tour because all you're going to 'see' are the normal tourist sites. Rather, stay at a local B&B, or pensions as their called there, for at least a week and take in the city at your leisure. It's amazing what you'll see just by venturing a couple blocks off from the tourist areas.

The small towns, or villages, are laid out differently in that each store, or business, doesn't have a dedicated parking lot and on street parking is very limited. Consequently people walk or they ride their bikes to wherever they want to go. Gasoline is expensive! Their refrigerators are also smaller than what we're accustumed to and ice cubes, or bags of ice, forget it. You're not gonna find it. The larger towns will have municipal lots which you'll park in. Which again require one to walk to whatever store or business you want to go to. I could go on...

If a person has a chance to travel, then I urge them to do it.

[brotherdarrell]

Gas prices at the the time I was there was about 1.74 euro/liter, which is close to $2.00 us money.

While we were there my brother was in the middle of trying to buy another car. One of the big decisions he had to make was engine size. If around 1.3 - 1.4 liters his insurance would be about $140 month. If 1.9 liters it would be over $200 a month. Yet another reason a Power Stroke may not be the best choice.

There was another discussion regarding his cell phone bill and how he thought it was too high. He had called his provider to cancel his service so he could switch, a discussion took place and they lowered his bill for his I-phone from $21/month to $7/month. My sister and I grilled him for 15 minutes making sure what he said was accurate. His monthly phone bill for his Apple I-phone is $7/month!!

His tv service involves going to the local store, buying a dish and receiver, going home and hooking it up. Once it is tuned in and turned on there are over 1,000 channels available at no cost. Premium channels are extra. Being the good Cowboys fan that he is he sends the NFL Channel $200 so he can watch his team get whooped most weeks:D using his computer to watch.That is cheaper than paying to upgrade his service.

Internet service involves going to the local store and buy the needed hardware and hooking it up, no extra costs for internet. It is not blazing fast but good enough to stream his Cowboys getting beat.;-)

He lives about a mile from the local train station in Bad Voslau and the school he teaches at is about two blocks from his stop in vienna. He usually rides his bike to the train, but he is worried he will get run over one day, explaining the new car.

Their house, part of a 5-plex, has one parking spot. There are some garages at the end of the block but someone has to die before they come available. When he gets a car he will have to fight for a spot on the street/sidewalk.

What uscra112 said about cropland in Germany is the same around Vienna. It is very heavily cultivated all the way to the city limits. Lots of grapes, corn and grains. One of the driving hazards are the tractors going through the skinny streets, and they have the right of way.

We visited a local market in Baden Ban. The assortment of veggies would boggle the mind. Many looked familiar, just a little different. Lots of type of mushrooms and tomatoes. It was quite a small market. Two rows of vendors about 60 yards long.

All the local communities had plenty of places to eat, many in local homes. Local ordinances say they all cant be open at the same time. As you drive down the street you will see these poles attached to houses with a hinge on the bottom and a garland on top. If the pole is lowered over the sidewalk they are open for business, if it is raised close to the house they are closed. Simple and straight forward.

One of the local specialties is called "Sturm". Near as I could figure out it is a young wine, slightly carbonated and slightly sweet. Very light and refreshing. Not much of a wine drinker but this was really good with a light meal.

Darrell

[jaysouth]

Quote from Czech too:

"I would hesitate to take a structured tour because all you're going to 'see' are the normal tourist sites. Rather, stay at a local B&B, or pensions as their called there, for at least a week and take in the city at your leisure. It's amazing what you'll see just by venturing a couple blocks off from the tourist areas"

After one cruise and one 'tour', this is my favorite way to travel. Pick a large city in any country and spend a week on foot exploring. It drives my wife crazy but I don't like to pack and unpack. My trip that ended last week was a visit to my daughter and it's kind of the same thing except auto travel is necessary.

Last week I saw, for the first time, a teenager driving a car in France. If you drive in France, there is a long list of equipment that you MUST have in the auto including reflective warning triangles, a safety vest, a fire extinguisher, first aid kit and two breathalizers!

It is rare to see anyone eating or drinking beverages while driving.

We make a trip every year and I spend a lot of time reading before setting foot on the ground. The history in Europe is amazing. Next year is the Aachen and Trier area in Germany.

[264 Win Mag]

AH! a Brot, Brochen and a small beir

Back in the day in West Germany! Good times had by all.

Thomas

[uscra112]

Another personal recollection from many years ago. Was in Goettingen just a month or two after the collapse of East Germany and the opening of the Wall. We drove to Muelhausen one weekend. The poverty of the East had to be seen to be believed. 90% of buildings in horrible disrepair. I was told that under the Communists there was no paint, no lumber, no roof tiles, no window glass, nothing. I saw a farm shed built according to the fundamentals of dry stone masonry, using concrete rubble. One of the few "new" structures. The cathedral stonework had been eaten away by the acid smoke from the brown coal they burned. They had to, that was all they were allowed.

In a way it was like stepping back 50 years, because nothing new had been built or even maintained since the end of the War, except for a small grey cinderblock hotel, which I was told was restricted to Party members. And the whole place was filthy from the smoke. And I came away thinking "and these are Germans! People who normally scrub their sidewalks with soap and water every day!". But that's how bad it was, and my friends said "This is nothing - it gets much worse as you go farther east toward Poland."

If anybody needs a reminder of what "central planning" and "socialism" do to a country, I still have a few of the pictures.

Edit:
I realize that this post is a bit of a downer in what has been a happy thread, but it is a reminder to us to give thanks that we don't live there....yet.

And I'd love to go back and see Muelhausen again.