NRA Rifleman article.

[HABCAN]

In the November 2013 issue of the American Rifleman magazine, on page 52, John Haviland has posted an article about shooting 'cast' in pistols. Reading it, I get the impression he 'knows' as much about cast bullets as I did after decades of their use, but BEFORE I came here and was privileged to learn so much more in a short time from our resident gurus, i.e., sizing to THROAT diameter vs. bore, and little things like that. I don't feel myself qualified to comment to the man, but maybe some one of our group with better credentials than mine could refute some of his statements for the good of the Rifleman's newbie readership?? It's a good article that favors us, but...........!![smilie=b:

[12DMAX]

In the November 2013 issue of the American Rifleman magazine, on page 52, John Haviland has posted an article about shooting 'cast' in pistols. Reading it, I get the impression he 'knows' as much about cast bullets as I did after decades of their use, but BEFORE I came here and was privileged to learn so much more in a short time from our resident gurus, i.e., sizing to THROAT diameter vs. bore, and little things like that. I don't feel myself qualified to comment to the man, but maybe some one of our group with better credentials than mine could refute some of his statements for the good of the Rifleman's newbie readership?? It's a good article that favors us, but...........!![smilie=b:

I took from the article he was referring to pistols ( semi autos ) and i do size my cast boolits .001 over groove. In revolvers I size to throat.

[Tatume]

Is this the same John Haviland who sighted in a 30-06 rifle by taking wounding shots on an elk, and then wrote proudly about it?

[Bret4207]

I've enjoyed a lot of Havilands writing over the years. I've read other articles by him on cast and his knowledge is....limited (?) to the standard out of the book, gun shop advice type level. I don't think you're likely to ever find a mainstream gun rag that is willing to go in depth to the ins and outs of cast. As soon as you see the word "hardcast" just understand the author is probably filling out orders at a by the word price and getting his info from the Lyman manual.

[44man]

Maybe writers should get their info here. Most of them get free boolits to test and advertise for the rag.
Been going back though stuff I cut from rags looking for BP pressures and found a ton of cast stuff. Groups at 25 yards that would tee me off at 200. They get paid to sell stuff and can never say anything bad.
Look to the right or the next page to see the companies listed. That MUST be a clue!

[osteodoc08]

As with any gun/car/bike rag, I don't put a lot of faith in it other than as an entertainment level (for the most part). I do enjoy hand loader magazine the most out of all my gun rag subscripts. They are there to make money, they will not bite the hand that feeds them (the gun industry).

[mehavey]

"...do size my cast boolits .001 over groove [autos]. In revolvers I size to [cylinder] throat...." I've inserted [parentheticals] where I believe your meaning lies. (If I'm wrong, the fault is mine alone.)

That said, I've always believed that one sizes to groove diameter+0.001+, whether auto or revolver.
Where the cylinder throats were undersize (therefore totally obviating any attemp to match bullet/groove diameters),
I've generally reamed out the cylinders to barrel/groove+0.0005" (or so). I've just had to do this on two new Ruger
45 Colts -- one New BlackHawk and one New Vaquero.

(Oddly, my older`73/3-screw BlackHawk had the correct cylinder throat dimensions -- go figure).

Why would one ever desire an undersized cast bullet try to make that tough jump from cylinder-to-barrel ?
(and am I missing something ? )

[DonMountain]

As with any gun/car/bike rag, I don't put a lot of faith in it other than as an entertainment level (for the most part). I do enjoy hand loader magazine the most out of all my gun rag subscripts. They are there to make money, they will not bite the hand that feeds them (the gun industry).

Do they still print "Hand Loader" magazine? I used to get that maybe 10 years or so ago and discontinued it since they never did anything on the sort of rounds I loaded. And since I only load boolits now in old military rifle rounds and some pistols, I often wonder if they ever cover anything that would be of interest to me. I couldn't care less for all the 300 Whisper and associated plastic guns that seem to be popular now and the semiauto pistols that throw away brass. Do they ever do deer hunting loads using cast lead boolits in 7.5 Swiss or MAS, 6.5 Swedish, 8mm, 7mm Mauser, 308, 30-06, .356, .307, etc?

[Tim357]

Do they still print "Hand Loader" magazine? I used to get that maybe 10 years or so ago and discontinued it since they never did anything on the sort of rounds I loaded. And since I only load boolits now in old military rifle rounds and some pistols, I often wonder if they ever cover anything that would be of interest to me. I couldn't care less for all the 300 Whisper and associated plastic guns that seem to be popular now and the semiauto pistols that throw away brass. Do they ever do deer hunting loads using cast lead boolits in 7.5 Swiss or MAS, 6.5 Swedish, 8mm, 7mm Mauser, 308, 30-06, .356, .307, etc?

Mike V did a few articles over the last few years covering cast loads for various military rifles, handguns and a couple SMGs.

[Leadmelter]

Handloader is the only subscription I still read. I like to read about new developments in handloading equipment and articles by Brian Pearce and Mike V. I switched to the electronic version of American Rifleman and have read about two issues.
I find this forum to be the answer to most of my gun questions. Keep up the good work!
Leadmelter
MI

[dragon813gt]

The article was meh at best. He came off as someone who didn't know much beyond what he read in a manual. I could be completely wrong about him. But I did not like the article. Just like I didn't like the article in the most recent issue about the cost savings of reloading. That is the absolute worst reason to start reloading.

[mdi]

Gun writers are just like anyone else. They have their own slant on things and some may be slanted a bit in the wrong direction :veryconfu I like to think of most as "jack of all trades, master of none", because they write about many different things dealing with casting, reloading, shooting, hunting, camp cooking, etc.

I buy Handloader mag. because other magazines don't have reloading covered as well as a dedicated reloading mag. Now, some things I read in the magazine I take with a grain of Bullseye, and some I will study/research a little more. But none are taken as Gospel...

[lotech]

While it's fine to critique a magazine article on this or other forums, it does little in improving what's printed in a publication. Let the editor know; tell him what's wrong with the article and what you would like to see in the future - just as you have done here. Contrary to what many believe, these people do pay attention to what readers have to say, especially if they receive several intelligent comments. Times are tough for the publishing industry in general. Most editors would prefer to print what people want to read.

[MT Gianni]

I have never met Mr Haviland. A bullet business we used to both frequent [Western Bullets in Missoula] assured me I was his double. From that mutual association I know he shoots a lot of cast, casts his own and shoots a lot of jacketed as well. I don't think he is a long time target shooter but does know more about cast than 90% of jacketed shooters out there. That make him an expert for the 90% of overall shooters out there and he probably knows at least as much or more than his editor does.
I think this board represents less than 1% and many die hard fanatics for cast are here. That is a good thing for us.

[gray wolf]

I read the article day's ago, shook my head and turn the page.

[starmac]

Writers, editors all have a job to do, which limits what they can write. They have to write about what their advertisers want that pays their bills. Home casters do not pay their bills period, so you will not be seeing a lot of praise.

[jonp]

Handloader is the only subscription I still read. I like to read about new developments in handloading equipment and articles by Brian Pearce and Mike V. I switched to the electronic version of American Rifleman and have read about two issues.
I find this forum to be the answer to most of my gun questions. Keep up the good work!
Leadmelter
MI
I also switched to the electronic issue and the november issue is the first one I think I have read as I bought a new Nook. I am going back to print.
I read the article and found it interesting but I think that everyone should keep in mind that he is writing for a general audience not a technical bunch like people on this forum so has to keep the writing less specific with that in mind.
There is a great difference between the weather report on Accuweather and a textbook. Both can tell you the same thing but 99% of people will not understand the book and will close it after the 1st paragraph

[mdi]

I also switched to the electronic issue and the november issue is the first one I think I have read as I bought a new Nook. I am going back to print.
I read the article and found it interesting but I think that everyone should keep in mind that he is writing for a general audience not a technical bunch like people on this forum so has to keep the writing less specific with that in mind.There is a great difference between the weather report on Accuweather and a textbook. Both can tell you the same thing but 99% of people will not understand the book and will close it after the 1st paragraph

Excellent point!

[armexman]

Wrong on that point, "jonp", I read the "weather book" for fun!!;) I shuddered to think what would happen in a situation where there was no forum and no NWS.

[Outpost75]

American Rifleman today is a dim memory of what it once was before the Cincinatti massacre.

Prior to about 1976 the technical staff was composed almost entirely of retired ordnance officers, accomplished competitive shooters and engineers with firearms industry experience. After Ken Warner was replaced as editor, the old hands on the tech staff were forcex out and the publications division taken over by advertising executives and salesmen who were simply whores for the advertisers. The Rifleman quit being a technical journal and became a political mouthpiece and fund raising organ whose onlt purpose was to generate advertising revenue. John Aquino wrote the truth in the New York Times and very few shooters have read it. But I know that it is true because I was there, an underling observer, but not blind, and I didn't falloff the turnip truck stupid.

[Char-Gar]

I have had that issue of AR on my desk but have not opened the cover. After reading the OP, I picked it up and turned to page 52 and read the article.

While it is not the article I would have written and could fuss about this or that technical point, I can't be to hard on the author. His purpose was to help shooters understand that in these times of high ammo cost and ammo scarcity, they could continue to shoot with cast bullets in their autopistols at a reasonable cost. I think he accomplished what he set out to do and applaud the effort.

[Outpost75]

Agree.

The author was introducing mass-market readers to the potential of cast bullets, to broaden their thinking.
The content for such a neophyte audience has to be kept to the most simple basics. K.I.S.S. principle.

[leadman]

Would have been nice if the author at least looked at the latest Lee mold offerings so he could write about the current 2 cavity style also.

[olafhardt]

I take it with a grain of salt whenever someone writes on reloading and has no mention of Lee equipment. This includes a lot of mag-rag writers.