Choosing Accurate Mold for Sig P238

[gefiltephish]

My wife purchased a new P238 on Sunday, we haven't even picked it up yet. Though I have a Lee 105 swc mold coming for it, I've not had much joy with Lee molds as of yet. Who knows, maybe a miracle will happen and I'll actually like this one. Besides, I'm partial to Accurate Molds. I admit I've been spoiled. :D I have a few NOE molds that I like also, so...

I'd like the opinions of those experienced with this particular gun.

I'm looking at two of Tom's existing designs:
35-090A (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-090A-D.png) and
35-098S (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-098S-D.png)

At first glance I like the appearance of the 098S better, however, the bearing surface looks short compared to the nose, reminiscent of 9mm. Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of pointy rn bullets and though the 090A is a rnfp, it just looks kinda...pointy to me. It does have more bearing surface though. The meplat on the 090A is .180, on the 098S it's .185, not much difference. However, the 098S has .05 radius, effectively adding to the meplat size (in my view). I suppose Tom could design the 098S with a longer bearing surface and shorter nose.

On the other hand, TC's feed reliably in my XD9 and LC9 and are reasonably accurate. Maybe I should consider these two:
35-090B (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-090B-D.png)
35-100L (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-100L-D.png)

Though I realize that "accuracy" and "belly gun" don't really belong in the same sentence, I'd like as much help from the bullet as possible. And of course reliable feeding is a must. I've never loaded for 380 before, but I've done more than my share of cursing at 9mm leading issues.

So, 90 vs 100 gr, rnfp vs tc, feeding, accuracy. Which of these bullets are likely to give the best combo in this gun? Open to NOE suggestions as well.

[rintinglen]

I think I'd go with the 35-100L or the 35-098S. I have a Ranch Dog 358-100 which is similar to the 35-100L that is very accurate and feeds reliably. That said, I have a Lyman 358-242 92 grn RN that is also very good. Either would be just fine, but I am partial to the TC style of boolit.

[SwedeNelson]

Just ran some 358242 92Gr. RN and its HP version
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=34&osCsid=ih9ilv22gnrk7t666ts06a92g3
Use the 88Gr. HP myself

Swede Nelson

[MtGun44]

Lee 356 120 TC has solved all my 9mm needs. Accurate, feeds 100% in all
guns.

Bill

[warf73]

Iffen I was buying a mold for the P238 it would be the 35-098S. Its close to the RD 100gr which is a great mold and feeds GREAT threw my wifes P238.

[gefiltephish]

Just ran some 358242 92Gr. RN and its HP version
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=34&osCsid=ih9ilv22gnrk7t666ts06a92g3
Use the 88Gr. HP myself

Swede Nelson

Hmm...I don't have any of your RG molds yet...Will definitely consider.

[gefiltephish]

Lee 356 120 TC has solved all my 9mm needs. Accurate, feeds 100% in all
guns.

Bill

I have that mold. Have to agree with the feeding and accuracy. That mold cast small so I tried lapping it several times (was unaware of beagling at the time), with the result being an already small groove becoming much smaller with rounded edges. I had Tom clone that bullet for me but with a much larger lube groove...still didn't solve the leading problem. I haven't done any loading in a few months, but last time I was finally seeing some beginning signs of success with the LC9, but I ran out of bullets at the time. That gun can chamber .360 and the AM mold drops at .359+. I found that brass selection was critical. Even after expanding with a custom m-die plug, some brass is so stiff it "shrinks" and swages the bullet base anyway. My plug(s) are not really adequate for this large a diameter bullet (especially for the stiffer brass), and I've been meaning to have Buckshot make a few more for me, but life keeps getting in the way. Oh, I have also tried backing out the sizing die some, but this didn't help either. I'll get there, just hope I don't go through all this again with the 380.

[gefiltephish]

I think I'd go with the 35-100L or the 35-098S. I have a Ranch Dog 358-100 which is similar to the 35-100L that is very accurate and feeds reliably. That said, I have a Lyman 358-242 92 grn RN that is also very good. Either would be just fine, but I am partial to the TC style of boolit.

The 35-100L is very much like what I use for 9mm, 36-125B (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-125B-D.png). Since I already have them, I'd be tempted to try out the 36-125B but I think it'll take up too much of what little case space there is. Lubed, it's about 130gr. I don't know why I had it in my head that a RNFP would feed better in this small gun. The TC feeds great in the LC9, which is virtually the same physical size as the 238.

Thanks to everyone, I'll consider all input.

[MtGun44]

OOPS, I just remembered that the P238 is a .380 not 9mm. 120 gr is a bit heavy. I have use the 90 gr version of
358242, but I think the Lee 358 105 SWC is probably your best bet.

Bill

[popper]

gefiltephish - I've noticed a problem reloading 9mm brass that is requiring me to sort. Seems like some brass won't take heavy boolits without either sizing down the base or not able to chamber with harder boolits. Must be the brass thickness half way down the case.

[gefiltephish]

Update. Finally got around to casting the Lee 105 swc. Nice little bullets! Unfortunately, for the P238, they have to be seated so deeply the base hits the internal taper in the case and swages 'em really bad. If I try to expand any deeper, the case buckles. Ah well, it was only a $35 mold that should still prove useful some day. Planning on getting a 642 in the near future so the 105 may be just the plinking ticket for that.

Since the 238's barrel requires a fairly short nose and 380 brass requires a short bearing surface, I'm liking this one: 35-090B (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-090B-D.png)

I'd consider the NOE 88gr but I only see it in RG2 and RG4 configurations (currently). Not at all interested in HP's for this caliber. Yeah I know I can cast 'em as solids with those molds, but I'd rather have 5 or more cavs with as little complexity as possible.

[gefiltephish]

Another update. I received the 35-90B from Accurate. Makes some nice bullets. Got to shoot some on Sunday. No leading - Yayyy!! Unfortunately it doesn't like to feed consistently either. With the 238's barrel I have to seat even this bullet very deep, right to the point of just begining to swage the base (hits the internal taper). At this point I'm going to go with my original plans of the 35-098S or the 92gr NOE. I still have a preference for the flat point over round nose, but the NOE is about 50 bucks less than the AM, and I'd be really surprised if it wasn't a reliable feeder. I looked at the Lee 102 but it's only a 2 cav which is unacceptable.

[Boolseye]

I looked at the Lee 102 but it's only a 2 cav which is unacceptable.
Yeah, but it's a great .380 bullet, and if you buy two you can cast them in series, make a pile of bullets in a hurry.

[dkf]

It makes zero sense to me why Lee would not offer a 6 cavity 356-102-1R mold. At least the new 356-95-RF is being offered in a 6 cavity.

[gefiltephish]

Yeah, but it's a great .380 bullet, and if you buy two you can cast them in series, make a pile of bullets in a hurry.

Yes but another factor is that I'm not a fan of RN bullets to begin with. The only 2 cav Lee mold I have is the old style with the wedges that I don't care for (358-148wc-great bullet though). I'd be just my luck to wind up with another one. In a pm, dkf had suggested the 356-95-RF, which I didn't even know was available.

[gefiltephish]

It makes zero sense to me why Lee would not offer a 6 cavity 356-102-1R mold. At least the new 356-95-RF is being offered in a 6 cavity.

I agree since that seems to be a very popular bullet.

I took dkf's suggestion and ordered the 356-95F (for 37 bucks ya can't lose). My only other Lee 356 mold casts on the small side which I had tried to open up by lapping, but didn't turn out as I'd hoped. Also, the gun this is intended for slugs about .3555 and did not lead with .358. I'm optimistic I can get at least .357 from the mold, with beagling if necessary, and still be ok.

My wife just gave me an HF powder coating gun for xmas, so maybe leading will become a thing of the past anyway?!

[Boolseye]

Cool–let us know how it shoots.

[gefiltephish]

The Lee mold arrived the other night and I cleaned/prepped it right away. Got to cast a little earlier this afternoon. Drops about .357+, slightly out of round. Wasn't going to do it, but I tried anyway, pushed the little bullets through the Star @ .357+ and lubed using BAC. Yeah I know it's a TL design, but I was going to the range to test out other stuff so I figured why not. I only made up 1 mags worth with 3.1 of w231. Shot great and no lead to speak of in the barrel. Sure, ya can't tell a whole lot from only 7rds, but I'm taking it as a pretty good indicator, especially from the miniscule amount of lube in those tiny grooves. I'm psyched!

Picking up a convection toaster oven this week so I can try out the powder coating for next weekend.

[dkf]

I ordered one of the 356-95 Lee 6 bangers Saturday morning. Good to hear they have them in stock and it is not a preorder. Hoping mine drops at .358 but we will see.

[gefiltephish]

My bullets are larger near the seam, so a strip or two of beagling tape would easily correct that and bring it out to at least.358. Plus I'll be adding .001-.002 with the PC, and this gun doesn't lead anyway, so not much point in the effort. It's always an option. Based on my mold, I'm sure if you need .358 it's doable.

[dkf]

I got my 356-95 yesterday. Cast about 150 to get a good indication on what size it drops. As cast they weigh 97gr. Center band between the lube grooves cast to .360" with the section above and below dropping a little over .358". So I don't see a problem sizing to .358" and .357" is not an issue either though the grooves start getting smaller.

Sized some to .357 and loaded a .357sig dummy round. Looks like they will work well for light .357sig plinking loads too.

[gefiltephish]

Got to powder coat (PC) 3 mags worth. Sized to .358 after coating. Lots of FTF's. Also had some conventionally lubed which all loaded just fine, also sized to .358. I had marked the mags and switched, but didn't make any difference. Hmm...me thinks the weak recoil spring is the culprit. Sig has a very low count (500) schedule for recoil spring replacement with this gun. I don't think I'm near that yet. My best guess is that the PC has extra traction over plain lead and combined with the weak spring, there's just not enough oomph to make it up the ramp. I'm going to try some sized at .357 but I doubt that's going to help. Perhaps a teeny spritz of one-shot on the noses...? I don't think anyone makes a heavier spring, but I'm wondering if I get some extra 938 springs and shorten 'em a bit...hmmm...gonna eyeball this up tonight. The one downside to a stronger spring is that we got this gun for my wife who has a real hard time racking the slide on any other semi.

<edit>Another thought would be a small amount of preload shims on the guide rod under the oem spring, as long as it does not create coil bind.</edit>

I also loaded up some pc'd AM 128tc's for the LC9 and P938. All fed and fired just fine with no signs of leading - a first for my Ruger. YEEHAW!! The 938 doesn't lead anyway. It eats everything and keeps on smilin'!

[dkf]

What is your COAL? Maybe they need to be shortened up a little. My LCP doesn't like loads near max COAL.

[gefiltephish]

.930. Cartridges were exactly the same with the exception being powder coated vs lubed. The brass was all FC. If the oal was the problem, the plain cast would have also FTF, yes?

[dkf]

Well .930" is well below max COAL so that should not be a problem. The PC would add some girth to the ogive of the bullet but at .930" COAL I do not think that would be a problem.

[gefiltephish]

I'm not an engineer, however I do know that all things being exactly equal, cutting coils from a spring will increase it's rate. Not my opinion, it's physics.

I compared recoil springs of the 238 and 938. They are different enough to conclude that interchanging is NOT a slip in option. The id of the 938 spring is too small to fit over the guide rod of the 238. Differences include wire thickness, wire width (not to be confused with coil od) and oal. Sorry, I didn't measure the difference in oal, just eyeballed 'em and the 938 spring is much longer. The 938 is definitely a higher rate and not just longer (for greater preload). I just happen to have a few sets of new spares for the 238 and a quick eyeball reveals that the new replacements are about .265 longer than what came in our gun. This actually translates into a lighter spring rate (all other things being exactly equal), but the increase in length subsequently increases preload, thereby requiring greater pressure to initiate movement BUT decreasing the amount of pressure to reach full travel. Hmm...the only way to tell if the longer spring is going to make any difference for the powder coated bullet is to get to the range and try it out. Will try my best to do so this weekend.

All that said, one way to utiilize the 938 spring in the 238 would be to turn the 238's guide rod to the same od of the 938 and then cut the 938 spring to (some) length the 238 will like. This will definitely result in a much much higher spring rate for the 238. Perhaps too high for many women to rack the slide.

It's late for me tonight, hope this all makes sense. :)