Those of you who know Blue Dot pretty well

[Jack Stanley]

I forgot who ever gave me the idea of using Blue Dot for reduced loads with jacketed bullets but thanks ! I have a small stash of .224" full metal jackets I wanted to use in my .223 Remington . From a thread in one of these forums someone mentioned ten grains of Blue dot . Other powders were mentioned on the thread but so far I've just used Blue Dot .

I used PMC cases , Winchester small rifle primers and seated Winchester bulk FMJ bullets to the bottom of the cannalure . I started with nine point five and ten grains of Blue Dot and started at thirty yards to make sure I was on paper . The lighter load smudged the case body a bit and didn't group bad , just not as good as the ten grain load .

Thinking the smudge on the case body was the accuracy problem , back at the loading bench I loaded twenty with ten grains and twenty with ten point two . Today I shot them at a hundred yards , four shots of the ten grain load gave about an inch and a quarter . The ten point two grain load put four shots into about an inch and three quarter .

I continued shooting four rounds at a time and allowing the barrel to cool a bit untill I had at least twelve rounds downrange . Sometimes the wait was easier than other times , like when a doe came into the apple orchard while I was trying to load another four . I just sat still watching and waiting . When all twenty rounds were into each target , the ten grain load was about an inch and tree quarter and well rounded . The ten point two grain load was about two and a quarter and not so rounded .

So I guess I still got a question , does Blue Dot always have such a narrow window to work with ? Is it just with the .223 or perhaps when you aren't using it for shotgun loads ? Does it require a bit more pressure to get burning well ? These jacketed bullets worked well where good cast bullets of the same weight did not . I'm glad it's working for this purpose but I don't think I'd buy the stuff again because it's not worked very well in other things .

Thanks guys , Jack

[felix]

Jack, all I can say 8 grains went berserk (SEE) in a 221 case. Be careful, the new BD is NOT the old BD in formulation, no matter what "they" say. ... felix

[RickinTN]

Jack,
Based on considerable reading and some personal testing I think I can tell you to expect another "node" above where you are now. I won't give any powder charges but will tell you that a fellow by the name of "Seafire" on another forum is the grandaddy of all loads Blue Dot. If you do a search for "Seafire blue dot loads 223" or similar I think you will find all the reading and suggestions you would want to muddle through.
Good Luck,
Rick

[FergusonTO35]

I find it works well for strong handgun loads and light to mild rifle loads. I found it dirty and inconsistent in .38 Special and 9mm. It works extremely well in my Marlin .357 with cast or j-words. If I could find some right now I would try it in .45-70 and .30 WCF.

[bones37]

I find it works well for strong handgun loads and light to mild rifle loads. I found it dirty and inconsistent in .38 Special and 9mm. It works extremely well in my Marlin .357 with cast or j-words. If I could find some right now I would try it in .45-70 and .30 WCF.

Ferguson, I've been using BD for my .30 WCF (30-30) in two different rifles, a Win 94 and a recently aquired Revelation(Savage) bolt action. The boolit is from a RCBS 150 grain 'cowboy' mold(plain based-non GC) sized to .310" and loaded over 6.9 grns. of BD, and lit with a Winchester Large Pistol primer. I'm getting great accuracy out of this load, especially in the bolt action.

Bones.

[Jack Stanley]

Looking at it from just the ten grain load I think it would make a fine plinker load with these leftover full metal jacket bullets . I don't know the velocity or pressure of them and as long as it works like this I'll be glad to stay safe . I'll go check Seafire and see if he has and pressures and such to study on .

Felix , as I remember , I bought this powder in repackaged form from Pat's reloading about five years ago . Five pounds in a white jug with black printing on white label . I really don't want to see berserk out of any powder or load I put together .

Thanks guys , Jack

[nanuk]

I think it was Rocky Raab's writings about BD in the 223, that I first learned about how well it can work in it.

[felix]

Jack, I cannot say what to do with the newer lots. Some folks say as the ambient temps go down, the speed of the powder goes UP! That never happened with the old lots. I still have about 4 pounds of a 1980 lot and it is very stable in the smaller 22 cases. Problems naturally go away as the bore size increases. Anyway, use pistol primers unless the author says otherwise in small and medium case sizes using boolit payloads. ... felix

[Jack Stanley]

Felix , thank you . I had read somewhere about it being unstable in some weather conditions . I have fifty more loaded with rifle primers , if pistol primers will smooth it's attitude I'll try those next . I went looking for the Seafire info and found that this amount of powder should give in the area of 2300 feet per second . I'm more than happy with that I really don't need to push this to the limit in this cartridge .

Jack

[Bulldogger]

While we're on the subject, anyone got a .303 load for Blue Dot? It's not in published data that I could find. I've also got Win 748, but it also seems not suited for .303.
Bulldogger

[paul h]

I've used seafire loads in the .223 and .308. What impresses me is how accurate they are. The .308 is a ruger ultralight hunting rifle, and while it has some favored loads that will shoot moa, it's not too tough to get 2-4 moa when working up j-boolet loads. All the blue dot loads I fired were moa or under.

[jmort]

I got confirmation that I have 5 pounds of Blue Dot on the way. Very happy, love Blue Dot for everything. Here is your .303 data for the 748, could not find any Blue Dot Data:

Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)
177 Lyman 311291 Winchester W-748 45.0 2,378
168 Lyman 31141 Winchester W-748 45.0 2,352
177 Lyman 311407 Winchester W-748 45.0 2,395
Remarks: Flat shooting
190 Lyman 311334 Winchester W-748 41.0 2,152
Remarks: Very accurate
198 Lyman 311299 Winchester W-748 40.0 2,190
Remarks: Most accurate load
227 Lyman 311284 Winchester W-748 37.0 default
177 Lyman 311291 Winchester W-760 47.0 2,259
168 Lyman 31141 Winchester W-760 49.5 2,288
Remarks: Good hunting load
177 Lyman 311407 Winchester W-760 49.0 2,395
Remarks: Accurate and hard hitting
190 Lyman 311334 Winchester W-760 46.5 2,152
Remarks: Very accurate
198 Lyman 311299 Winchester W-760 46.0 2,212
Remarks: Extremely accurate

[Jack Stanley]

I loaded some more .223 Remington ammo with the fmj bullet and ten grains of Blue Dot . Twenty-five rounds with rifle primers and twenty-five with a small pistol primer . Niece is coming over tomorrow to work me like a slave so I may have to wait untill monday to try them .

Felix , is there a difference in primers I will be able to detect without a chronograph ?

Jack

[felix]

Possibly, Jack, because of the hammer strike as well. Small rifle magnum primers have much stronger containers. Rem 7.5 and CCI 41 are two examples of a magnum primer that are not specifically designated as such. So, the real answer is maybe, don't know, etc. Oil the firing pin mechanism before tests, anyway. ... felix

[Jack Stanley]

OK Felix thanks . I was curious because some time back I had a box of small pistol "magnum" primers that seemed to work really well with a different load . When I worked up the load with rifle primers they were not quite as accurate . I thought I might have been seeing a "rule of thumb" at work . I do realize the 2400 of the loads back then is a different beast than the Blue Dot I'm loading now as long as it wants to be stable ..........

I'll try and get the chronograph out and confirm velicity but ten grains seems very mild compared to factory ball . Another plus is I'm happy with the accuracy .

Jack

[leadman]

The new BD has changed enough I use it for very little now. There have been several pictures posted on the internet of guns blown up with the extreme BD loads some are using. I would think you are about at a safe max where you are but have not tried over 8 or 9 grs in the 223. I only use 13grs of BD in the 303, 30-06, and 7.65X54 Arg.
My load for the 30-30 Win with a 125gr jacketed is 10 grs.

[Jack Stanley]

I've tried to use Blue Dot with lead loads in this and other calibers but it's never done as well as what Unique or 2400 has done . If I can use up what I have safely with light jacketed bullets I'll consider it a lesson learned . This .223 load does seem rather nice though and when the price of bullets comes down I may need to get a few more just to use up the powder .

The down side is I might get hooked on these Hornet equivelant loads .......he he he he he

Jack

[Jack Stanley]

I got out on target with the box of ammo , half had pistol primers and half had rifle primers everything else was the same . Loads using pistol primers was about twenty percent larger than loads using rifle primers . I didn't set up the chronograph and to look at the cases they performed alike . the targets showed a difference though .

I loaded another couple hundred and used up about half of them just plinking ... fun stuff .

Jack

[Jack Stanley]

Three years ago I loaded a ammo can full of these and have shot them in all sorts of weather . For plinking , I like them quite a lot .

Jack

[TCLouis]

Jack Stanley
"The targets showed a difference."

What difference, which had a smaller group?
Detail, the details are the important part.


I have used "OLD Blue Dot" in everything from 222 to 338 Mag and 45-70.

[Jack Stanley]

From post number fifteen ; " Loads using pistol primers was about twenty percent larger than loads using rifle primers . "

Jack

[Iowa Fox]

I've shot a lot of Blue Dot in the 223 and in fact I won't make a trip to the Prairie Dog fields without it. I don't know what year it was but James Calhoon had an article about 223 Blue Dot loads in one issue of the Varmint Hunter and he spoke highly of his results. That was enough for me to try it and I've been shooting it ever since. I have also shot some in the 243 but it doesn't seem like the bread and butter match the 223 yields.

[fatelvis]

I'm assuming if Blue Dot works well in the 223, it should work well in the 222 also?

[longbow]

My old brain fails me at the moment but there was a regular poster here that published Blue Dot load guidelines for about every cartridge. If memory serves the basic guideline was something like 60% fill of the cartridge. He warned that these were reduced velocity loads not necessarily reduced pressure loads. I am sure I downloaded or copied the info but would have to look.

I also cannot recall if he put that info on this site or a link to it on this site. An internet search for Blue Dot reduced loads for rifle cartridges should find it.

Okay, so I looked. I have some info I copied that I am not finding again on the internet but here is a link to a thread here on Cast Boolits:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?52512-Blue-Dot-amp-reduced-loads-for-308

Rocky Raab (used to post here) and Seafire are the names I couldn't remember.

Longbow