.36 Fast Twist

[Good Cheer]

For a percussion or flinter rifle shooting paper patched .38 boolits, how fast of a twist do you think would be TOO fast?

[rhbrink]

I think that it would greatly depend on the length of the bullet. Given that a happy guess I would think that anything faster than 15 to 16 inches would be too fast for a muzzleloader. Just guessing?

RB

[johnson1942]

good cheer, if you tell me here the exact length and diam. of the bullet you want to shoot i will do the math for you and tell you the twist for the gun. ive used the same formula on 13 front stuffers and they are all tack drivers. i got the formula out of old paper patch book so it has been tested years ago.

[451 Pete]

Good Cheer,
The muzzle loading schuetzen rifle pictured in my avatar on the left uses a .38 caliber green mountain bullet barrel with a 1-14 twist rate. It stabilizes a 310 grain grease groove bullet better than it does a paper patch of the same weight. With the grease groove bullet and the iron sights on the gun and shot off a bench it will hold a group of around 1 1/2 - 2 inch's at 100 yds., this being as good as my eyesight will allow. A powder charge of 50 gr. of 2 fg black powder is used with the combination of one felt and one card wad under the bullet to protect the bullets base. ( I have spent a considerable amount of time testing loads to see what this rifle likes and as it is a target rifle and not ment for hunting, the 50 gr load of 2 fg gave the best accuracy, which is what I was going for. Groups shot with larger amounts of powder tended for the group size to deteriorate and enlarge. ) Bullets are cast from pure lead and are .369 diameter as cast and loaded thru a false muzzle that was made with a tapered lead in to the rifling from a piece cut from the original barrel. All cleaning and loading is done with the false muzzle in place to protect the crown of the barrel. Powder is introduced into the bore via a drop tube. A slightly damp and then a dry patch is used between shots to keep the fouling consistent from shot to shot in the bore.
I believe that use of a twist rate faster than 1-14 in a .38 may be possible but powder charges and bullet weights would have to change from what I am using here to achieve a fair degree of accuracy.

hope this helps .... Pete

[Good Cheer]

Gents, I am remiss in the stating of the question. What I meant to ask about are .38 pistol bullets, as in that huge population of round nose and SWC molds that are floating around. I'm having a lot of fun with paper patching .45 pistol bullets and am thinking on going small.

[rhbrink]

Look at the twist of the 38 Special and .357 revolvers you will probably be shooting in about the same velocity range as a hot 38 load and up to .357 Mag loads. I'm thinking that a 14 to 16 inch twist would be about ideal with a 12 in on the too fast side but maybe not?

RB

[Good Cheer]

I was wondering about 16" and was really hesitant about going that tight a twist in a muzzleloader. I shoot a 16" twist in a .40 and it gets kind of tough to wring some accuracy out of it with less than oh about 250 grains. But, you know, a smaller bore might use 16" much better.

Meanwhile, just got in an unused original Ideal 388178 with a new base plug from hollowpointmolds.com. Wow, what a beautiful piece of work. It looks sooo much like it needs a muzzleloading barrel.

[rhbrink]

Plug some numbers in the Green Hill formula and see what you come up with. We are just guessing until you mention the bullet lenght.

RB

[johnson1942]

i did for a .357 diam bullet: 1 inch long= 1/15 twist out to 1000 yards. 1.1 long= 1/14 twist the same. 1.2long= 1/13 twist to 1000 yards. and 1.3 long is 11 and 1/2 twist for 1000 yards. i use the 150 in the formula then subtract 3 to 4 from the answer to get the number for a long range bullet that will shoot close also. some use the number 120 in the formula in stead of 150 but i think that can be slightly too fast a twist by one number. this has never failed for my guns and also i figured alot of bullet lengths for modern guns also for friends. a ranch manager thats was my neighbor had a 25/06 about 12 years ago that wouldnt shoot. i figured his bullet length and it was dead on accurate at any range. saw him recently as he move on, and he told me it is still his best varmint gun. the formula works

[Good Cheer]

The project is underway.
Purchased two .31 caliber 15/16" barrel blanks on the cheap.
Will have one rebored for the .36 bore project.

[johnson1942]

years ago i got 1 inch diam. by 34 inch long douglas reject barrel blank for 12 dollars. i sent it to texas and he rebored to .45 1/60 twist and it is a really accurate good barrel now. the man who cut the blank said it was the best and easiest blank he ever cut. sometime a guy can really get a bargin on something like that and what your doing. keep us posted.

[rhbrink]

What twist are you planning on using? Boolit? Curious minds just want to know.

RB

[Good Cheer]

I think 24" would be plenty plenty fast but may go 20" or 22".
With shallower rifling and a tight patch either should work with round ball at squirrel head distances.
Soft lead molded paper patch pistol boolits should be fun to work with. Wonder how light and short of a boolit will expand into the rifling.

[rhbrink]

I'll bet about 100 grains of 3 F would expand just about any soft lead boolit no matter how short!:lol:

If you could end up with a short piece of your barrel make up a pre-engraver and push your boolits through it and probably get by with much lighter charges.

RB

[DIRT Farmer]

I have a Zoli "zip gun" target pistol from around 40 years ago that was designed for 38 hollow base wad cutters. The standard HB wad cutter is a slip fit and 20 grns of fffg will hold the ten ring at 50 yards. I need to try standard wad cutters with a card wad and pure to see how they work. I think the twist is 1-20.

[Good Cheer]

Thanks for the input. I get home tonight. Maybe it beat me there.