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View Full Version : Good bullets for 1894 Marlin .44?



Blackwater
08-25-2005, 07:18 PM
Fellows, I have fallen in love with the Marlin leverguns. Always liked them, but resisted the levergun for a long time, but now I'm adicted. I want an 1894, but can't decide between the .357 and the .44 versions. I like the light recoil and very cheap shooting of the .357, but the .44 will always have a favored place in my heart. It's 95% of what my 1895 in .45/70 is, really, or at least in the field it is. I really want to get a Saeco 265 gr. RF mould, and already have about 6 moulds for the .44's. How does the 1:38" twist work with heavier bullets below 300 gr. in the .44? Also, does anyone shoot the Lee 310 gr. bullet with the big flat point and GC, or will it feed with that broad flat point?

The little .357 has a lot of appeal, with its faster twist, and I can't help but think that my grandson might take to it quickly, too. I wouldn't be opposed to shortening the stock to fit him, using the factory plastic buttplate for that, and then fitting a recoil pad to extend it, and maybe another slip on pad over that to get it back to my length. Sure would solve a lot of problems, and HBWC's from that long rifle length barrel would be as mild as mild could be for my grandson's initiation into the centerfire clan.

The .44 is too much like my Guide Gun to be of real additional utility to me. I just love the little guns, though. The .357 would give me something I really don't have, functionally. Don't you just HATE having to compromise at times like this, instead of getting one of each?

I can load some 200's down in the .44 for my grandson, and I don't have any real doubts that he'd be able to handle those very handily. He's a pretty hale and hardy young lad, and I think there's a good chance that he may LIKE a little "kick" as well as shooting a big bullet. Can shorten the stock as described for the .357, too, and there's no doubt that a mildly loaded .44 can take deer. He sat in the stand with his Dad last year, and behaved admirably, and seemed to really like the experience when Dad got a young doe with the bow. It was his first trip afield with Dad, and my only concern is now he'll think hunting is easy! You just go out and wait a few minutes, and shoot your deer! They were only gone from the house about 25 min. TOTAL for the excursion! Fate's a fickle lady, ain't she???

Anyway, the biggest problem I seem to have in deciding between the .357 and .44 seems to be the concern about that 1:38" twist. I can't remember a lot about whether that's caused many problems with cast, which is what I want to shoot mostly in either caliber carbine. Can you help me? Will it likely shoot that 265 gr. RNFP Saeco? There's also a 240 gr. RNFP Saeco, but I tend to favor the heavier ones, and the 265 looks like a bullet I'd like to try in both rifle and pistol. It's been my experience that most Saecos I've used have cast heavier than rated, so I'm thinking it would likely throw at 275-280 gr., depending on luck of the draw. I'm thinking they've usually cast a bit large as well, which likely won't be a bad thing in the Marlins. There's a 180 gr. RNFP also, both GC and PB for the .357, since I missed the group buy on the custom 6-cav. buy.

I have no doubt I'll love either, and I'll have both ASAP, but if any of you can help me decide between the .357 and .44, I'd appreciate the help, and advice on that 1:38" twist and what it'll shoot will likely help me here.

felix
08-25-2005, 07:32 PM
Blackwater, you are at the practical limit with the 265 grainer in the 44 for the twist.
The 16 twist 357 gun will shoot the 180 grainer perfectly. Even full tilt, the 357 gun with 180s will not cause enough recoil to be alarming to a youngster. This is because the cartridge tube alone is heavy enough to really tame any kick with this bore size. However, this won't be the case with the 44, even with 200 grainer boolits. Recoil will be felt by a youngster, most especially noise, with a deer capable load. Go with the 357 lever gun, and get the 44 next year. ... felix

PatMarlin
08-25-2005, 07:47 PM
The first (and only) time I went deer hunting with my Dad (bout 8 years old)...

We drive to the mountains. Park- Gear up and load, turn around to start out and a buck comes right down the mountainside in front of us.

Dad has an old Model 70 in 30'06 and puts one right in the chest. Thing keeps running for a steep drop into a canyon- Dad bolts another round in and hits him dead in the head. Deer drops right before the edge of the canyon.

All in about 15 minuets.. :mrgreen:

Hunting's easy... [smilie=1:

jethrow strait
08-25-2005, 08:02 PM
Blackwater, came late to levers as well; twice in fact. Actually got rid of the ones I did have---Winchesters and Rossis about four years ago, vowing to be rid off em all. Marlins got me back, along with a couple vintage 99's. The 44 Mag 24" Cowboy is simply the most accurate traditional lever rifle I have ever owned. It will regularly put 200 gr. cast boolits into sub-2" five-shot groups under a healthy dose of WC820(or 4227 if I'm feeling flush)---and. at this point, that's simply better than I can see even with a peep sight. I fretted quite a bit about the 1:38 twist before getting it, but for my purposes it's perfect with boolits up to 265gr. Never shot anything heavier than that. The .357 Carbine is more of a work in progress. Although it's more accurate than the Rossi I had in the past by a long shot, it doesnt hold a candle to the 44, even though I've done all the accurizing tricks to it. I had hoped to use it in the 100M NRA Cowboy Lever event, but since the only cast boolits it likes are the heavier 158-180grainers, I find the 44/200 more useful and actually more pleasant to shoot, although it's overly powerful for the event.----jethrow

Denver
08-25-2005, 09:45 PM
Blackwater;

I presently own two 44 Mag rifles and two 357s. I owned two other Marlin Cowboy models in 44 Mag and 44-40WCF. None of the 44s ever shot lead worth a damn, but I wouldn't blame it on the twist rate. I've found the only way to get either of the 44s I now have, (Browning 92 and Marlin 94 carbine), is to seat the boolits out far enough to touch the rifling before they will shoot anything like respectable groups. This of course turns them into single shots as the loaded rounds are too long to feed through the magazine. The Marlin has a 1:38 twist, the Browning I'm not sure of.
The two 357s (Marlin Cowboy and 1894C carbine with MG) on the other hand, both shoot lead with very acceptable accuracy. The throats on both of these allows seating the boolits that just start to engrave the rifling and still be able to funtion through the mag. I'm getting some really good 75 yard groups with them with the new Lee C358-180 RF boolit that I got in the group buy.
I haven't personally had any experience with the Rossi or Italian 92 clones in either caliber, they may do better. So at least in my limited experience, proper chambering and throating is key to good accuracy. I wouldn't let the twist rate be the deciding factor.

Denver

Frank46
08-26-2005, 12:50 AM
Jethrow, funny thing about the lever guns. when living in new york I basically had one. A pre'64 win 94 in 30-30. But someone made me a good offer and away she went. Since moving down here to louisiana I now have 5 of the darn things. I first bought a rather disreputable 444s in 444 marlin. Beat up and some fool had redone the butt stock. This was for swamps and on state gamelands. Then a 357 mag marlin 94 came along, then a win 94 canadian centenial in 30-30, then a savage 99 in 300 sav, and last was a 1894 in 44 mag. They's just like weeds. fun to shoot. Oh yeah forgot the win big bore in 375 win. Think thats 6 so far. Seems like it'll never end. Frank

Blackwater
08-26-2005, 01:39 AM
Well, I found a great article on exactly the question I asked by Glenn Fryxell at:

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMarlin1894.htm

Pretty thorough article on all 3 calibers, .357, .44 and .45 LC. Thanks for all your replies, though, and Felix, I'm thinking you're right. A .357 this year, and move up to the .44 next year ... or ASAP.

Pat, you and my grandson were born under a very bright star, I think! ;-) Why th' heck couldn't it have been ME with that kinda' luck? Oh well, maybe I shouldn't ask questions unless I REALLY want to know the answer??? :???:

For you .357/180 custom holders, is the main difference between your bullets and the Saeco a wider meplat? I have several Saeco moulds, and they've always given me good bullets.

One more question: Have any of you tried using LDPE wads under PB bullets, and if so, did they sort'a serve the same as a GC??? Just considering the options possible, and "brainstorming" a bit here. I'm home sick and can't sleep, so I sit around thinking of all sorts of wierd stuff.

BTW, re the .44 CB version, a buddy has one and his results have been exactly the same as yours, Jethrow. It's plum dang HUMBLING when a levergun for a pistol ctg. shoots like that, ain't it? His .357 shoots good with JHP's, but that .44 REALLY shines! I'm thinking I want the shorter std. version, but the "hang" of that CB version is really nice. Kinda' gives you that feeling of, "Hey! I think I could SHOOT this thing!"

I have a lot more moulds for the .44 than for the .357, but that'll just give me an excuse to correct that situation, I guess. Thanks again for all the responses.

Leftoverdj
08-26-2005, 09:05 AM
I'll go with the group. The 180 grain bullets, whether from the group buys or similar moulds, make the .357 shine. I started my son with .38 Specials in a Handy, and have never regretted it. He could step up in easy stages. Way up in our case, because I reamed it to .357 Max almost as soon as I got it.

I've played around with various means of protecting the bases of PB designs with indifferent results. Inverted GCs work the best. I did have some success with cornmeal filler in one .45-70, but that rifle is long gone and it does not seem to work in my current .45-70s. None of the wax checks have given me more than marginal improvement.

My '70s vintage 1894 in .44 Mag does very well with the Lyman 255 GC KT, but will not handle the Lee 310. PB bullets in that rifle have been limited to about 1100 fps. Results with PB have been so discouraging that I passed on the recent group buy.

Scrounger
08-26-2005, 09:11 AM
I'll go with the group. The 180 grain bullets, whether from the group buys or similar moulds, make the .357 shine. I started my son with .38 Specials in a Handy, and have never regretted it. He could step up in easy stages. Way up in our case, because I reamed it to .357 Max almost as soon as I got it.

I've played around with various means of protecting the bases of PB designs with indifferent results. Inverted GCs work the best. I did have some success with cornmeal filler in one .45-70, but that rifle is long gone and it does not seem to work in my current .45-70s. None of the wax checks have given me more than marginal improvement.

My '70s vintage 1894 in .44 Mag does very well with the Lyman 255 GC KT, but will not handle the Lee 310. PB bullets in that rifle have been limited to about 1100 fps. Results with PB have been so discouraging that I passed on the recent group buy.

I'd like to get a Group Buy for a six hole Lyman 429215 look-alike in a .434 diameter, with gas check, of course.