120 grain 7.62 X 25 Tokarev load for CZ 52

[leftiye]

I did some research on this in the archives, but I could only find one (light) load for the 120 grainer. There were a bunch of references to a blue dot load, but apparently it got PMed and not posted. Is this boolit weight too heavy for this caliber? Seems like 1200 fps is easily attainable with this boolit weight(?).:mrgreen:

Anyway, right now the only boolit I have for this (CZ52) gun is a 120 grain GC two groove lyman. My bore is .304" and the grooves are .313-.314" so I'm beagling the mold, and lapping it out, and using linotype (all to get larger .315 boolits). With the hard alloy, and the gas checks, and the large lube capacity, this boolit should be able to take some pressure and velocity.

Some of the data that I have been able to find puts such powders as H110 and 296 as top powders (velocity) with lighter boolits in the 90 to 100 grain range. Almost sounds like 1630 might be good with this heavier boolit (?), question is if there's enough case capacity for that. I'm not going to shoot top end velocity loads all the time, even if I can find loads that are accurate. But plinker loads have already bben found (7 grs AA#7), so if you have hotter loads with heavier boolits, I'd appreciate the info.:Fire:

[Three44s]

I have not cast for my CZ52 yet .......... only shot jacketed thus far.

I have bought a six gang mold from Lee and if memory serves me ..... it's about 90 grs and they look to be .311's

You mention a 120 gr. bullet and beagling ........ that will raise the weight even more ..... my .02 worth ..... I fear you are running into trouble with that much slug.


Mine shoots the 90 gr. XTP from Hornady like a house a fire and that slug is just .308".

It's too bad that "FAC" is not still in business ..... they sold replacement barrels for a reasonable price.

Three 44s

[singleshotbuff]

FWIW a 120gr plain base boolit and 5grs of Unique gets me 1250 f.p.s. outta my CZ-52. I think I could go higher, but haven't tried yet. Only problem so far is finding the brass, damn thing throws it so far I spend more time scrounging than shooting.

Let me know if you develop 120gr loads with W296, I'd be interested.

SSB

[9.3X62AL]

I haven't "gone there" in the 30 Mauser/7.62 x 25 Tokarev with any bullet/boolit over 100 grains. AA-7 has been the best overall fuel for this caliber that I've found to date, but WW-231 and Unique have done decent work for me. I have largely resisted the urge to get intrepid with this caliber, in spite of the Hornady-published data that REALLY makes this one stand up and run.

The few "extensions" I have done involve the Hornady 90 XTP to about 1550 FPS, which shot very well in my pistol. The brass landed in the next ZIP Code, and the jackrabbit test media was permanently impressed with the outcome. And distributed comprehensively, I might add.

For edible small game, the Lee 100 grain RN at 1100 FPS will cycle the CZ-52, the Tokarev Type 54, and the Broomhandle Mauser. These were the loads in which Unique (4.5 grains) and WW-231 (4.0 grains) were used. With center-mass or head shots, there was enough left to enable hasenpfeffer with cottontails, if you are so minded. A former poster here developed flat-pointed truncated cone designs for the 32 ACP, 30 Luger, and 7.62 x 25 that I received samples of. These shot very well, but have not been tried on critters so far. Unfortunately, some of this contributor's other ideas were not so good, and he no longer posts here.

[Skrenos]

I think 120 gr might be a tad too heavy for your case size... or the bullet too long for your twist rate. The highest I've gone in 30tok is 110gr.

H110 is way too slow of a powder for the case. I couldnt get enough powder in the case when working up my 90gr XTP loads to get high velocities. I was getting near 1700fps, but it was starting to compress the powder. You're not gonna get anywhere near that velocity with that large of a bullet safely. Shoot more for 1400-1500fps with a 120gr.

I've found that 800x is a very versatile powder for many magnums. I've pretty much switched over to 800x on as many handgun calibers as I possibly can due to it's lower pressures, and greater versatility.

I've you've read the thread about the 327 magnum, there is no reason to go high velocities unless the reason is 'just because'. use a 90-110gr bullet at about 1200-1400 fps will handle all your small game hunting/target shooting needs, wont fling your brass into low orbit, easier on your brass, and is generally a more enjoyable experience with the cz52 (due to it's terrible ergonomics).

I've read Clark's articles on the strength differences of the cz52 and tt33, and I've done the measurements myself and the cz52 barrel is weaker. The lockup is stronger, but the barrel itself is weaker. This is another reason not to hotrod in the cz52 a when it goes, it breaks stuff. You wont see the warning signs with a cz52 that you'll see with other automatics.

[Three44s]

Brass flying away ............ the CZ52 .......... naw ......... LOL!

My enabler sold me an extra strength recoil spring from Wolfe ...... it helps .......... and loading down a bit also helps.

I am a revo guy who just likes to open the cylinder and let those brass gems land in my hand but ......... those 7.62X25's always talk to me .......... hope the new Federal 327 magnum fills that void and I can quit chasing brass again!

Three 44s

[Bullshop]

Anybody got any good dope on improving sights on the CZ-52? I cant see the blasted little things that come on them.
BIC/BS

[Skrenos]

Anybody got any good dope on improving sights on the CZ-52? I cant see the blasted little things that come on them.
BIC/BS

Yeah. Replace them.

[Three44s]

I planned on getting my slide dovetailed front and rear to a good adjustable number. ....... then my "smith" moved to Montana .........!

His helper also has a "52" and I planted a bug in his ear ............. Put a Weaver rail under the front of the frame!

He did ...... he used a rear Weaver scope base for a 99 Savage ........... It made a good light or laser mount ...... it's a bit skewed for angle but workable. The right fitting would make it perfect.

Three 44s

[leftiye]

Skrenos, yeah, the reason is "just because". As I said earlier, I don't intend to shoot them much, but I do want to develop the load just to have it available. Due to it being a milsurp automatic, I don't see much use for it except shooting rocks, paper and thangs. So, the 5 grains of unique will probly be the one used or something like that. Don't know why, I just can't take the lighter boolits seriously. Plus, this one sticks its whole front half out of the case, Has less inside the case than the 113 grain Lyman rnfpgc boolit.

I'm with you guys on the 327 Magnum. I've just about shelved the .30 carbine rimmed idea. Cases are supposed to be available in January.

I'll probably also develop a hot load for my 110 grain Horny XTPs for the 7.62X25 too for possible serious uses. Anybody got some AA #9 or blue dot, or 2400 data?

[Ricochet]

Wonder how close that .327 Magnum case is to the 7.62x38R Nagant? I haven't been able to get any Starline Nagant brass, and am now ordering some Starline .32-20s to load up for it with the Lee dies (which I think are meant to work with .32-20 brass anyway.)

[leftiye]

I've been thinking of taking about .013" (total both sides- or .0065" per side) off of the case head sides in front of rim of the Nagant case for about 1/8" and jamming it into a .32 H&R mag sizing die. Trim to length (anybody know what the length should be?). Presto, a .327 mag. case.

[9.3X62AL]

Ricochet--

In another thread dealing with the 7.62 x 38R Nagant, a poster mentioned that Starline was reworking the brass design in some way. I don't recall who the poster was, but I do recall commenting that a re-work was in order. While the "early-series" brass is of fine metallurgic quality, its diameter is oversized and requires a bit of effort to size properly for the first time through.

Back on the subject of this thread.......freq drift does happen. Ya know how us mid-caliber handgun addicts can be. The Starline brass for the 7.62 x 25 Tokarev is "best of breed", and the Winchester White Box ammo casings in 7.62 x 25 Tok is not far behind. I started with this caliber and its predecessor (30 Mauser) in 1989, and the only brass available at that time was Fiocchi via the firing of hard-to-locate factory ammo in this caliber. The brass was OK, just scarce as h--l. I got motivated after the ChiCom Tokarev knock-off arrived at my house, and bought 500 9mm Win Mag cases and commenced to run them through the 30 Mauser size die to set a shoulder--then file-trim to length. If this sounds arduous, you might be correct. I still have about 275 of these cases--not one has split a case mouth or failed in any way, and they have at least 15 loadings each. I also tried cut-off 223 casings for pre-cursor brass--it worked all right, but that "Pregnant Guppy Effect" to the brass after firing disturbed me.

The only flaw the reworked 9 Mag cases and the Fiocchi brass have shown was an inability to hold bullets or boolits in place without a roll crimp. The masochistic edge to this story is that setting the roll crimp on that dinky neck just a fleaweight too much caused the case neck to spring away from the projectile sidewall. The bullet would stay put, but often be able to spin around in its cannelure/crimp groove. The Starline and WWB cases hold bullets/boolits in place quite well--no telescoping on feedramps with just a slight roll-crimp into a cannelure, and the Sierra RNSP's stay put without a roll-crimp, just a slight taper crimp to straighten the flare out. Go Starline for your casing supply, in other words.

[Ricochet]

Thanks, 9.3!

[leftiye]

I finally found some usefulloads on http//www.handhoads.com. Thanks Rick

[gregg]

Ricochet--

I also tried cut-off 223 casings for pre-cursor brass--it worked all right, but that "Pregnant Guppy Effect" to the brass after firing disturbed me.

I have used 223 also . Had to fire form then run a remer in the neck because the brass would be to thick. Alot of work for brass but fun. As you all know then you have to look for them after you shoot them.

[singleshotbuff]

gregg,

"look for them after you shoot them" is t he understatement of the day. LOL!!!

I love my CZ-52, but it does fling em.

SSB

[leftiye]

Got my .314 dies today from Midway. Promptly opened the Lee sizer up to .315" and made some dummies up and tested them to see if they fit my chamber (if they would chamber). They chamber fine. Had to open up the lee seater die to let the larger boolit in to seat and crimp. Used a .314 expander for the larger boolits (you can imagine how a .306" expander wuld have worked?). Looks like I'll have to size those new Starline cases before loading as they stick a little in the chamber when chambered (not in the neck/boolit area though). Will have to open the neck area in the sizer die some, I guess.

A word of caution in opening up dies. I chucked them in my lathe and spun them and inserted a rod with emery cloth wrapped around it into the opening. Not enough emery cloth to stick in the hole and grab, just held it against the side of the hole. First, this stuff cuts fast! Don't get carried away holding it in there for too long! Second, you have to clean the hole completely to test for proper size if using a pin gauge. The grit in the hole will not allow the gauge in until you're a thou over the gauge size if you don't clean the bore before checking for how much you've relieved.

I'm thinking I'll try the seven grains IIRC of AA#7 for the first load IIRC, will have to check that amount. Looks like it should fly!