.454 Lever Guns

[tygar]

Hi, I was looking for input from people that have a .454 Lever Gun. Which one, how good they are, that bullets/loads you are using & IF anyone has made a .460 S&W out of one or conversely, has anyone made a .454 out of a .45 Colt gun?

Thanks
Tom

In response to the below responses. Thanks but...

"OK I guess I'll say this again!

I WANT THE .454!

It is a given that I will get this. Don't care about the others. I have them, I load for them, I currently have 6 or 8 BIG 40 cal rifles. If they made a .500 S&W in one of these levers I would get that. I want the hot pistol cartridge in a lever action rifle.

That is the purpose of this post.

Input on that cartridge (.454) in a lever gun & bullet wts, loads etc. is what I am looking for.

Thanks, hope that makes it clear. "

[bearcove]

Cartridge length is a deciding factor.

[bearcove]

If you want get a 1895 in 45-70 and you will find you have all you want.

[bearcove]

Rossi is the only 454 you can buy

[tygar]

Hi, I have numerous 45 cals from 450 Marlin to 450 Watts. I like the .454/460 & have heard that 454 rifles have been made into 460s & 45LCs into .454. Just want to play with a good pistol cal in a light wt. lever gun. Also wanted to know what bullets/velocity people are getting with them. Also, I thought I remembered another maker making the .454 a number of yrs ago.

[Pepe Ray]

As has been mentioned, all Browning patent lever guns are cartridge length sensitive. Of course money and a good gunsmith can make adjustments.
Another thing to consider is how the added recoil affects the magazine tube connection. It's very disconcerting to find the end of the tube projecting an inch forward of the muzzle.
At some point Rossi had a solution, threading tube to receiver I believe.
Anyway I traded mine off to my BIL for something more practical.
If you actually enjoy getting the snot slapped out of you, try a hot 45 Colt in a trapper M92 with a 300 gr CB.
Oh yeah!!
Pepe Ray

[snaketail]

I have a Rossi .454 stainless. 95% of the time I shoot a hot .45 Colt load and ever so often shoot a Corbon FMJ .454 through it. It barks and bites and delivers an awful thump to the target. The cheap Rossi stocks seem to grab my beard and I get a shoulder slap and a face tug at the same time - an interesting sensation.
I have a tang sight on the rifle for shooting Lever Action Silhouette, with .45 Colt. If I were to use .454 cartridges more often I would change back to a buckhorn sight or a scout scope.
Two years ago I shot a 450 Marlin then my .454 - no difference in perceived recoil.
It is also a fine Texas hog gun. I used a cast 250gr SWC and carry a couple of .454s in case we ran across a "big one".
M
86507

[osteodoc08]

I've got a Marlin 1894CB. I shoot hot Ruger type loads through it. Packs plenty punch really for anything I need it to do. Any 250gr lead boolit at 1100-1200 FPS should take care or anything "non-dangerous" you need be perusing in North America.

If I need something bigger or harder hitting, I use my 1895GS.

[helice]

Like Pepe Ray I have the 45 Colt just in the Rossi 92. I have gone the distance with H-110 and Lil'Gun just to find out what it would do. My barrel is a 20" version as opposed to his trapper, but it doesn't seem to add enough weight to make a difference. The heavy loads with 250 and 300 grain slugs can get a bit uncomfortable at the bench. They are truly heavy hitters on the hogs though and off hand they are just "noticeable". I can't imagine why a person would need more powder than the 45 Colt allows in a rifle that is so light. That said, I truly admire this Rossi 92 in 45C and for many that 454 cartridge would offer more options.

[tygar]

I want the .454, "just because". As I said I have lots of boomers, currently up to 450 Watts, which is very close to .460 Weatherby & have had several .460s & .470s, so recoil is not a problem.

As I said before there was another company that made the .454 & I just remembered who - Legacy/Puma. Their import office was in Alexandria, VA & a long time ago I called & talked to their gunsmith who did say that I could, in fact, make it into a .460. They had done it & the gun could handle it. So, I guess I need to find one of them.

The question I also wondered about was what bullet is the best for the rifle. I have always preferred the 260 & 300 in my pistols since this is what Dick Casull told me are best back in the 80s & have been using them to good effect since then. His load was all the H110 you could stuff in it & still crimp the bullet.

But today there are lots of new powders & others may work better in the rifle & also bigger bullets may work better, & since I am new to pistol bullets in rifles I thought I'd ask you experts.

So, appreciate the input, keep it up, I can use all I can get.

[DEVERS454]

+1 for going with a Marlin 45-70 over 454 for a levergun.

Three main reasons I sold my Rossi 454.

- OAL for the 454 is pretty finicky on the Rossi
- 45-70 has more bullet options on weights
- Marlin action in the 1895 is stronger

Just my $.02

[tygar]

OK I guess I'll say this again!

I WANT THE .454!

It is a given that I will get this. Don't care about the others. I have them, I load for them, I currently have 6 or 8 BIG 40 cal rifles. If they made a .500 S&W in one of these levers I would get that. I want the hot pistol cartridge in a lever action rifle.

That is the purpose of this post.

Input on that cartridge (.454) in a lever gun & bullet wts, loads etc. is what I am looking for.

Thanks, hope that makes it clear.

[starmac]

Doesn't bighorn armory make the 500 smith lever, it just takes money. lol

The only 460 rifle I have seen, was a ruger a friend of mine ordered when he bought his revolver. It took several months for the lgs to get it in, and they offered him a profit to let them keep it.

[tygar]

Yes but I have built in "costs 2 dam much" meter & the 2k plus for the .500 lever, really pegs the meter.

As I said, the Legacy/Puma gunsmith told me that they had modified some of their .454s into .460s & it worked.

What model was the Ruger .460? Never heard that they would make one.

[starmac]

It was the single shot 1 or 3, I don't know which. This was about 3 or 4 years ago, and apparently they didn't make many of them, as I said the lgs he ordered it from offered him a tidy profit on it.

[454PB]

I have a Puma in .454 Casull and have done quite a bit of experimenting/chronographing with it. My "go to" boolits are the Lee 320 FN and the 335 gr. Lyman 452651, both gas checked designs. Both of these have to be seated to crimp in the lower crimp groove in order to feed properly. Using H-110/WW296, WC820, AA#9, or Lil'Gun I can achieve over 1800 FPS with good open sight accuracy. Recoil is "brisk", but I've been shooting 500 grain boolits in Marlin 45/70's for 25 years....and as you know, recoil is relative depending on your experience.

[tygar]

Great, just what I wanted to hear. Have you compared the Puma & Rossi? If I remember the Puma's were considered pretty good back when I was looking at them sometime back in the 90s.

How is your accuracy with either?

I have usually used & like the performance of the various 300+gr in the .450 Marlin & up to .405gr. With the LeverRevolution bullets I can shoot accurately to 200yds with my ghost ring sites on my Marlin.

[454PB]

No, I have no experience with the Rossi. From what I've read, they are as good or better than the Puma. I haven't done any long range group shooting with my Puma. It is "box stock" and 50 yards has been the limit for my 64 year old eyes.

I did some plinking on our 300 yard range and managed to ring the steel gongs about 60% of the time.....holding about 4 feet over!

[tygar]

Hum, I have put some variation of peeps on all my levers cause my 66yo eyes can't do the regular sites. Even the peeps, unless ghost ring big are blurry. lol that's why I have a lot of hi power scopes on my rifles.

A couple of my .454 pistols shoot 100yds OK, same with .44 mags & my S&W .500 shoots good at 100. I even have a couple of my .45acp match guns that are good at 100. Hope I can get at least 100 with the rifle, hopefully 150.

I currently only have 100 & 200 yds on my property but will be putting in 300 & 400 when I get motivated so I'll be able to see what the max range on the levers will be.

[Dogg]

The Puma's are made by Rossi, only difference is the finish. I have a 16" and a 20" Puma and a 20" Rossi in 454. To be honest the new rossi has better finish than the Puma but my 20" puma has really nice blue finish, however the stock fitment was/is horrendous
I also questioned about converting a 45lc to 454 but was informed that the action has a different heat treatment in the 454s which make them stronger. So I just stuck with the 45lc but load them hot, which doesn't seem to bother them at all. I just wish they would make a 454 with a 24" octagonal barrel. The long heavy barrel would be nice for soaking up some of the recoil from the 454.

[OnHoPr]

http://www.bighornarmory.com/catalog/big-horn-armory-products/model-89-carbine-2/


454PB: and as you know, recoil is relative depending on your experience.

That 500 S&W should be a pretty good prairie dog shooter.:kidding:

[snaketail]

This thread just reach the point where the original question has been lost.
Get a Rossi Stainless Steel .454, its a fun gun to shoot. You can use .45 S&W Schofield, .45 Colt and .454 Casull. Just like Short, Long and Long Rifle.
M

[tygar]

I didn't know they were the same company. Did Rossi just buy out Legacy or is their a lineal line of the manufacturing & ownership?

I know that the gunsmith in Alexandria, VA was the warranty guy & the company name that did the importing was Interarms & that's who he worked for.

I actually want a short barrel. 16-18 would be preferred but would take the 20 & maybe cut it, actually I just was thinking that one with a long barrel would be interesting to try & see what kind of distance accuracy it would have.

I might get one just to put a 24" brl on it after seeing how the short barrel does.

What are the options for putting a Ghost ring/peep site on them?

Absolutely need one as I can't focus with standard iron sites.
Thanks

[tygar]

.454 Lever Guns

Since the thread has reached the point where the original question is lost, here is the question.

Hi, I was looking for input from people that have a .454 Lever Gun. Which one, how good they are, that bullets/loads you are using & IF anyone has made a .460 S&W out of one or conversely, has anyone made a .454 out of a .45 Colt gun?

Thanks
Tom

In response to the below responses. Thanks but...

"OK I guess I'll say this again!

I WANT THE .454!

It is a given that I will get this. Don't care about the others. I have them, I load for them, I currently have 6 or 8 BIG 40 cal rifles. If they made a .500 S&W in one of these levers I would get that. I want the hot pistol cartridge in a lever action rifle.

That is the purpose of this post.

Input on that cartridge (.454) in a lever gun & bullet wts, loads etc. is what I am looking for.

Thanks, hope that makes it clear. "

[joec]

I want the .454, "just because". As I said I have lots of boomers, currently up to 450 Watts, which is very close to .460 Weatherby & have had several .460s & .470s, so recoil is not a problem.

As I said before there was another company that made the .454 & I just remembered who - Legacy/Puma. Their import office was in Alexandria, VA & a long time ago I called & talked to their gunsmith who did say that I could, in fact, make it into a .460. They had done it & the gun could handle it. So, I guess I need to find one of them.

The question I also wondered about was what bullet is the best for the rifle. I have always preferred the 260 & 300 in my pistols since this is what Dick Casull told me are best back in the 80s & have been using them to good effect since then. His load was all the H110 you could stuff in it & still crimp the bullet.

But today there are lots of new powders & others may work better in the rifle & also bigger bullets may work better, & since I am new to pistol bullets in rifles I thought I'd ask you experts.

So, appreciate the input, keep it up, I can use all I can get.

I'm with you and wanted a 454 Casull lever gun also. However as was pointed out the only one made is Rossi though the 460 will fire the 454. I have three rossi rifles a 45 Colt, 454 Casull and a Rio Grande in 45-70. Now the Casull also shoots the 45 Colt round also though for me the Rossi 92 due to the stock isn't legal for NCOWS events for me so I use the 92 45 Colt for that. I hunt with all 3 though as each work well for pigs up to deer. Anything bigger it is time for the 454 and 45-70.

As for bullets I'm using several in cast and jacketed by several makers with a 330 gr gas checked mold due in from Ranch Dog for my 454. I haven't shot any less than 260 or greater than 300 grs to date. I also have the Taurus Raging Bull in 454 and love that gun.

[tygar]

I also "absolutely" love my RB! Have 3 RBs, gave a 6" to my son in AK to carry when he's out on the trails. All he had was a 44Mag. Last time I was home I took up my .500 S&W which I had him shoot & he liked it so maybe he'll get 1 also.

Back to the .454s. I got my first back in 84-85, a Freedom Arms. Have had several over the years. They are well made but I don't like the grip & the single action. When Ruger came out with the Super RH .454 I bought one & have had several, still have 1 in .454 & 1 in .480. When Taurus came out I tried one & have basically abandoned all the others. It shoots better, feels better, & has far less felt recoil. I carry a 5" when in the brush & hunt with an 8". I will say that I still shoot the Ruger sometimes when I am testing really hot loads. They are pretty hard to break.

When I had the FA's I bought a bunch of his 260s & 300 bullets plus quite a bit of loaded ammo, & am just now getting down to the last boxes of them. So for the most part am still using FA brass.

I have shot .45 LC bullets in the .454, 250HPs & solids etc but they are nothing special when shot in .454.

I figured if I can get in the 2200+ range with the 300 FA or HC bullets it would probably be OK for griz, especially with 10 or them. Since I carried a pistol with 300s at 1900 for over 20 yrs as backup or when fishing in AK I think I'd be pretty confident in it as a plane, boat or ATV gun.

[rintinglen]

Rossi made the Pumas. Legacy was the importer. I had a 16 inch carbine in 357 but did not like the "John Wayne" lever. Now I have the 20 inch regular old 92 clone.

I have shot the 454 Stainless Rossi and had pretty fair results with a Lee 350 grain 45/70 boolit sized down to .452 over 23 grains of H-110. Had to finagle the OAL to get it to work, but my friend who owned the gun was dead set on carrying it for wilderness protection against big bears.

[tygar]

I'm just the opposite. I put the "big loop" lever on my Marlin. My hands are big & those small levers hurt in the big bores. I actually would put some tape with some rubber padding on my third finger when shooting my big double rifles because I just killed my middle finger from the trigger guard.

Just last night I sized down some .458 300s & 325s to try in my Cassul's. I also got out an old S&W M25 I have had forever & slugged it & loaded some of the 300s to try along with some 240s & 250s.

I was surprised but it slugged just at or a hair under .452. I remember some others I had that you had to use .454 bullets to get it to shoot.

Made a lowball offer on a new Rossi .454 but the guy hasn't answered.
Tom

[John in AR]

I have the 20" stainless puma in .454 and love the stupid thing. I mostly use .45LC's in it, but my most-used .454 load is 37.8 WW296 on a 240 XTP-Mag runs 2430 fps, or more than 3,100 ft/lbs of energy.

Other load results with it are as follows:

.45LC
Corbon 265 +p - 1770 fps
Corbon 335 +p - 922 fps


.454 loads:
Winchester 'medium' 250 jhp - 1660 fps
Winchester 260 Partition - 1507 fps
Hornady 300 XTP-Mag - 1375 fps

It really surprised me to find that with a lot of loads, the little 20" levergun is actually putting out more power than a .30-06, and with some loads, even more power than a .300 WinMag does. Within its distance limitations, there's not a game animal in north america that it can't take; from full-power loads for bear, moose, etc, down to light LC loads for pot animals like rabbit. I have numerous pistol-caliber and magnum-pistol-caliber carbines, but that .454 levergun is far and away the most versatile of any carbine I own; and possibly the most versatile long gun, period, that I own.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/quake316/LE/Photo0912.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/quake316/media/LE/Photo0912.jpg.html)
(Main issue was finding a front sling mount. With the .45 caliber cartridges inside a dual-walled tube like that, it makes for a fat magazine. Whipped out the calipers and it turns out that a mag-tube mount for a 16-gauge shotgun fit perfectly.)

[454PB]

37.8 grain of Bullseye with a 240 grain bullet?

Something is wrong here......

[John in AR]

37.8 grain of Bullseye with a 240 grain bullet?

Something is wrong here......
Holy carp - 37.8 of 296, not bullseye. That'd get somebody killed. I'll correct above; thanks.

[rbuck351]

I have a 20" blued LSI PUMA in 454 and I cast the Lee 300gr (actual 317gr) with wcww. It had the safety but I took it off and made a peep sight replacement . I'm loading 31grs of Lil Gun for about 1980fps. There's probably room for a couple more grs of powder. I haven't actually benched it but from kneeling at 100yds with my 65yr old eyes it's easy paper plate accurate.

[singleshot]

If they made a .500 S&W in one of these levers I would get that. I want the hot pistol cartridge in a lever action rifle.



They do! Here you go!!!! www.bighornarmory.com


EDIT: Oooops! I see this has already been addressed. I was just looking at a bighorn the other day...

[rockrat]

Ruger made a #1 in 460 S&W

[John Boy]

The Rossi, originally made and owned by Armando Rossi sold his company in Brazil to LSI. LSI in turn renamed the Rossi '92 ... Puma. They are the same for fit to finish & accuracy except the Puma now has the safety selector on top of the receiver. I own both, a 2001 "Rossi" that was distributed by EMF in 45 Colt and a 2009 "Puma" 45 Colt now distributed by LSI which are replicas of the Winchester Model 92 lever action rifle invented by John Browning

You keep shouting I WANT THE .454! which by the way is totally obnoxious!
Friend, there is no 454 caliber lever rifle because a 454 is one of the bullet diameters for a 45 Colt, ie... the original Ideal 454190 bullet that weighs 260grs in addition to others in a 452 diameter. And out of my 45 Colt Rossi & Puma, I shot probably a ton of these 454 diameter bullets with the 454190 bullet in 45 Colt brass. In addition, I have shot many 454 diameter Casull 300 gr bullets out of the '92 Winchester Colt 45 Rossi & Puma in 45 Colt brass also - plus in addition to other 45 Colt rifles
So to answer your I WANT THE .454! shout ... buy any 45 Colt rifle to your liking because there is no rifle marketed as a 454 lever gun! Got it?

[Dogg]

Wrong, unless the 3 puma and rossi 92s I have that are marked 454Casull don't know there aren't any 454s.
454 Casull is what he is looking for! And the other 6 rossi 92s I have marked 45 colt just never grew up to the point they could digest the 454 casull.
Dogg

[Dogg]

There are presently 5 rossi 92s in 454 casull listed on Gun Broker and 1 on Guns America.

[starmac]

I'm thinking he meant to say, there are no 460 lever guns, just had 454 on the brain. lol

[tbhutton]

Want a picture of one of mine? It sure says 454 Casull on it ...

[tygar]

I have the 20" stainless puma in .454 and love the stupid thing. I mostly use .45LC's in it, but my most-used .454 load is 37.8 WW296 on a 240 XTP-Mag runs 2430 fps, or more than 3,100 ft/lbs of energy.

Other load results with it are as follows:

.45LC
Corbon 265 +p - 1770 fps
Corbon 335 +p - 922 fps


.454 loads:
Winchester 'medium' 250 jhp - 1660 fps
Winchester 260 Partition - 1507 fps
Hornady 300 XTP-Mag - 1375 fps

It really surprised me to find that with a lot of loads, the little 20" levergun is actually putting out more power than a .30-06, and with some loads, even more power than a .300 WinMag does. Within its distance limitations, there's not a game animal in north america that it can't take; from full-power loads for bear, moose, etc, down to light LC loads for pot animals like rabbit. I have numerous pistol-caliber and magnum-pistol-caliber carbines, but that .454 levergun is far and away the most versatile of any carbine I own; and possibly the most versatile long gun, period, that I own.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f360/quake316/LE/Photo0912.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/quake316/media/LE/Photo0912.jpg.html)
(Main issue was finding a front sling mount. With the .45 caliber cartridges inside a dual-walled tube like that, it makes for a fat magazine. Whipped out the calipers and it turns out that a mag-tube mount for a 16-gauge shotgun fit perfectly.)

Finally got a .454. Ordered it from Davidson's yesterday, should be in next week.

Talked to my gunsmith & getting the cleaning & polishing internals, receiver ghost ring site, bigger/higher front site, big loop lever lined up.

Loading up a bunch of az kickers to break it in & see how it goes.

Will try "all" the loads you all recommended plus my old FAs load, fill it with H110 until you can just crimp the bullet. (I will build up to it, at least a little bit) (definitely will not use 37.8 grs of Bullseye)

Looking forward to it.

[Bullshop Junior]

Great, just what I wanted to hear. Have you compared the Puma & Rossi? If I remember the Puma's were considered pretty good back when I was looking at them sometime back in the 90s.

How is your accuracy with either?

I have usually used & like the performance of the various 300+gr in the .450 Marlin & up to .405gr. With the LeverRevolution bullets I can shoot accurately to 200yds with my ghost ring sites on my Marlin.

The rossi and the puma are the same gun.

That being said, I have one of the first pumas to come out with the saftey in 454. It is my all time favorite lever gun, although I rarley shoot 454 loads out of it. Accuracy from mine is as good as any, ussually I can put three shots touching off hand at 50 yards. It tends to like hotter loads better, and is most accurate with about a 260-300gn bullet.

[Bullshop Junior]

The Rossi, originally made and owned by Armando Rossi sold his company in Brazil to LSI. LSI in turn renamed the Rossi '92 ... Puma. They are the same for fit to finish & accuracy except the Puma now has the safety selector on top of the receiver. I own both, a 2001 "Rossi" that was distributed by EMF in 45 Colt and a 2009 "Puma" 45 Colt now distributed by LSI which are replicas of the Winchester Model 92 lever action rifle invented by John Browning

You keep shouting I WANT THE .454! which by the way is totally obnoxious!
Friend, there is no 454 caliber lever rifle because a 454 is one of the bullet diameters for a 45 Colt, ie... the original Ideal 454190 bullet that weighs 260grs in addition to others in a 452 diameter. And out of my 45 Colt Rossi & Puma, I shot probably a ton of these 454 diameter bullets with the 454190 bullet in 45 Colt brass. In addition, I have shot many 454 diameter Casull 300 gr bullets out of the '92 Winchester Colt 45 Rossi & Puma in 45 Colt brass also - plus in addition to other 45 Colt rifles
So to answer your I WANT THE .454! shout ... buy any 45 Colt rifle to your liking because there is no rifle marketed as a 454 lever gun! Got it?

Wrong

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.454_Casull

[tygar]

The rossi and the puma are the same gun.

That being said, I have one of the first pumas to come out with the saftey in 454. It is my all time favorite lever gun, although I rarley shoot 454 loads out of it. Accuracy from mine is as good as any, ussually I can put three shots touching off hand at 50 yards. It tends to like hotter loads better, and is most accurate with about a 260-300gn bullet.

I picked up mine yesterday. Took it apart a little & sprayed it all down & washed off the gunk then tefloned & oiled it. The action is not bad & the trigger is OK also. The fit & finish is far better than I had anticipated from some of the comments, also OK, actually pretty good. Wood is plain but looks good.

Now for the PROBLEM! The SOB won't chamber anything longer than the 250Jacket or 255 cast. The Freedom Arms 260 won't & the FA 300, Hornady xtp won't & the 325 cast isn't even close.

That really pss me off. All go into the chamber when hand loaded straight in but they won't come off the feed ramp so the bolt can pick it up. The rim sticks with the cartridge angled so the bullet is jammed into the top of the chamber.

In order to get it out, I have to remove the the feed tube & push it back down & then push it manually into the feed tube & tilt it down so the bullet will fall out the feed tube.

Any ideas?

I was looking at "Steve's Guns" site & he has some nice stuff for the 92s. Any experience out there from u guys on his stuff & how well it fits & works.

I kind of thought that ghost ring site replacing the bolt safety was a neat idea, but not sure of the practicality???

I especially want to know how the double ghost ring & full buckhorns work replacing the factory site.

Look forward to hearing from u all, except the one who thinks I'm obnoxious because I needed to stress I only want info on the .454 Rossi, not their idea of what I should want!

Thanks
Tom

[Bullshop Junior]

I havnt had any problems with mine feeding. Although, mine has been used and loved a lot. Anything that sticks a little, I just push the lever back forward and then ram it home

[Bullshop Junior]

Not sure if this helps any. These are the longest cartridges I have on hand, and they feed fine.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/25/y2a7ajap.jpg

[tygar]

[QUOTE=Bullshop Junior;2594384]Not sure if this helps any. These are the longest cartridges I have on hand, and they feed fine.
QUOTE]

No way to close bolt. It is locked in tight & the rim is below the ramp & can't even be pried upwards, has to go down.

[Bullshop Junior]

Odd. Mine has never had a problem.

[Bullshop Junior]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/25/hy5yhy2e.jpg

Thats out of mine with the 300gn Hornady XTP over I believe 23gn on H110. 50 yards off hand, with factory sights, but I'm 20, so I can see the sights pretty good still

[454PB]

I load both the Lee 320 gr. GC and Lyman 452651 330 Gr. in my Puma, but for proper feeding I have to seat to the bottom crimp groove. Perhaps there's a problem with the cartridge lifter in your rifle.

[Bullshop Junior]

I load both the Lee 320 gr. GC and Lyman 452651 330 Gr. in my Puma, but for proper feeding I have to seat to the bottom crimp groove. Perhaps there's a problem with the cartridge lifter in your rifle.

Bottom crimp groove..? For a longer OAL?

[tygar]

QUOTE]

No way to close bolt. It is locked in tight & the rim is below the ramp & can't even be pried upwards, has to go down.[/QUOTE]

Misspoke the rim is below the rail with the cutout that is above the ramp.

On the crimp groove I am assuming we are actually talking about to make it shorter.


Also, seeing the internals on this receiver I can't see any way that a 460 S&W would fit. So I don't have any idea what the Puma warrantee gun smith was talking about it being doable.

I hoped to get a load with 300-325s m/l that is accurate & fast that works in both for duality purposes.

Bullshop Junior, where in AK are you? I lived in Ketchikan & the Matsu for about 20yrs between the 70s & 2000s. Traveled all over hunting & fishing.

Loved it wish I could still handle the cold. Still do the sno bird thing but not as much as I used to.

[454PB]

Whoops...should have typed top groove for shortest OAL.

[Bullshop Junior]

QUOTE]

No way to close bolt. It is locked in tight & the rim is below the ramp & can't even be pried upwards, has to go down.

Misspoke the rim is below the rail with the cutout that is above the ramp.

On the crimp groove I am assuming we are actually talking about to make it shorter.


Also, seeing the internals on this receiver I can't see any way that a 460 S&W would fit. So I don't have any idea what the Puma warrantee gun smith was talking about it being doable.

I hoped to get a load with 300-325s m/l that is accurate & fast that works in both for duality purposes.

Bullshop Junior, where in AK are you? I lived in Ketchikan & the Matsu for about 20yrs between the 70s & 2000s. Traveled all over hunting & fishing.

Loved it wish I could still handle the cold. Still do the sno bird thing but not as much as I used to.[/QUOTE]

I grew up in Delta Junction, although as of about two weeks ago, Relocated to Texas for work.

[Bullshop Junior]

Whoops...should have typed top groove for shortest OAL.

That sounds right. I usually crimp in the lower groove to load hot loads in Colt cases.

[tygar]

I grew up in Delta Junction, although as of about two weeks ago, Relocated to Texas for work.

We've been considering Texas cause I'm tired of the cold her also. It's been lo 20s, teens & single digets for awile.

I'm from MS & don't want to go back there so I've been more interested in AL & the wife has been talking FL. Probably wind up back in OR where we have property lol.

[tygar]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/25/hy5yhy2e.jpg

Thats out of mine with the 300gn Hornady XTP over I believe 23gn on H110. 50 yards off hand, with factory sights, but I'm 20, so I can see the sights pretty good still

Single loaded some 310GC w/25gr H110 & they shot real easy, shot some 250HP Jacket & they shot harder. Don't remember the load.

Found another problem. When I last posted they would chamber & cycle the 250 jackets but now the first round will work but the 2nd round will not come out of the tube.

There is a little curved piece that needs to move so the bullet will come out of the tube but now it will only move if I push it. Then the tube spring will push a bullet onto the feed ramp.

Thinking I may be using the Davidson's replacement guarantee on this thing.

[Bullshop Junior]

If you can exchange it, do. The only feed problem I have ever had on mine, is if you work it slow, the lever will stop half way, and it takes a little push to get it the rest of the way. If I polished the feed ramp it would be slick. I just havnt had time.

[Brindlemonkey]

Hi Tom,

I'm new here but found the answer to what sounds like the same problem with my NIB Casull here,

http://www.rossi-rifleman.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=995

1.5hrs with a Jewelers file got mine to feed Cast Lee C452-300-RF at OAL 1.75 reliably

Hope this helps.

David

[tygar]

Hi Tom,

I'm new here but found the answer to what sounds like the same problem with my NIB Casull here,

http://www.rossi-rifleman.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=995

1.5hrs with a Jewelers file got mine to feed Cast Lee C452-300-RF at OAL 1.75 reliably

Hope this helps.

David

Welcome to the site! Thanks, that is exactly what mine looked like!

I have been playing with it & could get them to cycle if I seated the bullets deeper than the crimp groove by just a touch. So your fix will surely help.

The only problem is the NEW problem with the bullets not coming out of the feed tube after the first round. It doesn't make sense to me, since the first round will cycle, i'm perplexed.

I will try the filing fix so I can seat them full length to the crimp groove.

Thanks again, you obviously will be a valuable member.
Tom

[donhuff]

tygar,

The first round will feed because it never gets all the way into the mag tube to be held there by the "cartridge stop" (the little curved piece). Then the second and other rounds ARE held up by the stop. If yours is not feeding, then the bolt must not be going far enough forward to move the stop out of the way and allow the next one to be released onto the carrier. While trying to help another rossi rifleman member with the same problem as yours, I learned that the bottom left (when viewed from the top) edge of the bolt is what trips the stop. And it does so in the very last few thousands of bolt movement. A lot of rossi feeding issues covered in this topic http://www.rossi-rifleman.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1888

[donhuff]

BTW,

Have any of yall read bout what Ranch Dog has done with his 454 lately?

http://www.rossi-rifleman.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2027

[tygar]

tygar,

The first round will feed because it never gets all the way into the mag tube to be held there by the "cartridge stop" (the little curved piece). Then the second and other rounds ARE held up by the stop. If yours is not feeding, then the bolt must not be going far enough forward to move the stop out of the way and allow the next one to be released onto the carrier. While trying to help another rossi rifleman member with the same problem as yours, I learned that the bottom left (when viewed from the top) edge of the bolt is what trips the stop. And it does so in the very last few thousands of bolt movement. A lot of rossi feeding issues covered in this topic http://www.rossi-rifleman.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1888

Hi, thanks, I read your thread & found it at the end. I have 3 Rossi RM windows up with 3 different threads, reading & figuring.

Unfortunately, I'm a shooter not a gunsmith/machinist so I may just give it to a gunsmith & say "read this stuff" & "fix it".

I can slick up S&W revolvers & 1911s but that's it. I get a little twitchy when "I" have to start taking off metal & modifying stuff. I've screwed up enough of it to not want to any more.

I don't know about you guys but I would much rather pay a little more to the maker & get a properly working product than have to mickey mouse it or have a smith fix it.

Thanks
Tom

[donhuff]

Tom, I know what your saying. Would be nice if they were ready to go right out of the box. But they would cost a lot more than $500 I bet. In the old days getting one to cycle ammo was probably a lot easier, now day there are just to many different style shapes of bullets that a design like the 92 hasn't got a chance. It's pretty picky about what it eats "by design".
Over on the rossi riflemam forum, we call them "kit guns". lol

[blademasterii]

You will get a properly working product with the rossi. It is the refinement that is the issue. They work fine, but with a little sandpaper or stone hone and some stock stripper and oil it will look better and work better. And it is a small investment for the upgrades that pays off in a really smooth action and good looking stock that you know you slicked up yourself. I went a step farther and had my neices make me a paracord sling to put on my 454.

[Bullshop Junior]

You will get a properly working product with the rossi. It is the refinement that is the issue. They work fine, but with a little sandpaper or stone hone and some stock stripper and oil it will look better and work better. And it is a small investment for the upgrades that pays off in a really smooth action and good looking stock that you know you slicked up yourself. I went a step farther and had my neices make me a paracord sling to put on my 454.

The para cord sling is something I wanna add to mine. Got a pic of how they did up yours?

[tygar]

You will get a properly working product with the rossi. It is the refinement that is the issue. They work fine, but with a little sandpaper or stone hone and some stock stripper and oil it will look better and work better. And it is a small investment for the upgrades that pays off in a really smooth action and good looking stock that you know you slicked up yourself. I went a step farther and had my neices make me a paracord sling to put on my 454.

Hi, thanks but it is not working properly since even with short bullets it won't come out of the feed tube.

I also would like to see the sling.

Do any of you guys know a gunsmith that knows how to slick up the action & fix the chambering problems that I can call?

Or, do you think I should send it back to Davidsons for a replacement. I just wonder if I would have much of a chance to get one that actually worked.

You know, I paid $500 even for this & Jerrys has the Marlin 45-70 for $504.90. I've never had a Marlin that didn't work. Just saying, if Marlin can do it for $500 Rossi sure should be able to given wages down there.

I wanted a .454 rifle so I guess I'll do what it takes to get this going but this is a PIA.

Thanks
Tom

[Bullshop Junior]

Where are you located? I might be able to help slick it up if tou are close enough

[tygar]

Where are you located? I might be able to help slick it up if tou are close enough

Hi, I'm in VA. Way 2 far. I talked to one of my gunsmiths & he does levers & said it would be an easy fix for him to fix the feeding problem & slick up the action.
Thanks
Tom

[blademasterii]

They did it kind of like a bracelet. I don't realy like the way its made because it is too narrow and not flat enough. They also didn't tuck the ends properly. It looks ok and will work ok, but I will show them what I want for the next one. I don't have it installed yet because i'm refinishing the stock for that rifle. I stained it and truoiled it, but I dont realy like the way it looks. Think I am going to re strip it and do an ebony stain on it.

[tygar]

Finally have an update!

Gunsmith finally finished with it. It wasn't near as easy as he thought!....But, he did it!

It will feed & cycle properly with bullets from 255s to 330s lead & the XTPs. It is also very accurate with just about any bullet & load.

We put the double ghost ring rear & green front.

Now if I can get some glasses so I can focus on the front site maybe I can shoot it as good as he did.

[TXGunNut]

Glad you got it fixed, now time to update your eyeballs. Sounds like it's time for a new pair of progressive lenses.

[tygar]

Going to try my computer glasses today or tomorrow. See how that works then go from there.