Winchester 94 octagon bbl doesn't line up with receiver

[Depreacher]

Hello Gents,
Have a 99% finish Winchester 94 1967 Canadian centeniel issue with the 26" octagon bbl. I want to make a cast boolit shooter out of it, naturally. The top bbl flat is slightly to the right of the centerline of the receiver. It's enough to be noticable. Would be nice if the bbl could be tightened up just a tad to correct the problem. Any idea the ft. lbs. of torque that would be proper for this tightning. Of course there is the problem of the extractor cut. The bbl should be removed first, the new cut made, then retightened. I don't have a lathe anymore if it needs a tiny trim on the bbl mating surface. It's tempting to take it off, make the cut, and re-install, but to how tight??? I could buy the wrench, block, and vise, do the job, then sell on the "bay for at least half my money back. What do, what do??? Any suggestions ??? Any and ALL help appreciated.

[nhrifle]

Careful with that, if you don't support the receiver correctly you could twist it in torquing the barrel. It may have just loosened up over the years, easy enough to check. My usual procedure is to make a block that will fit snugly inside to frame to keep the sidewalls from bowing and twisting under force, put a couple of taped parallels on the side flats and clamp it into a vise with moderate pressure (just so it won't move). Find a suitable method to turn the barrel, and not a pipe wrench. Put some effort into the wrench and see if the barrel will move. I have never seen any specs on torque values, but I would estimate anywhere around 25 to 50 ft-lbs. Doesn't take a whole lot. If it won't move, the barrel will need to be set back and the headspace set to the bolt. That needs to be done with a lathe and the proper gauges and reamer.

[Depreacher]

THANKS NHRIFLE,
The barrel has not loosened since the extractor slot on bbl and receiver are still perfectly aligned. The top flat is only 1 or 2 degrees off, not much, just enough to be aggravating. Most 94's I've encountered have maximum headspace, so don't think it would fail the "go" gauge test if it was turned that slight amount. If removed, the amount of metal removed from bbl would amount to no more than a "cleaning" cut, possibly. I am NOT an expert on bbl installation. I was going to leave the bolt and floorplate in the receiver to help support it. If worst comes to worst, I am only 60 miles away from Clarks custom guns. Super gunsmiths. Ever hear of Jerry Miculek ??? Brother, can he shoot a S&W revolver. I've watched him several times. BUT, would like to fix it myself. I can widen the extractor slot with my dremel after turning the bbl.. Any thoughts ?????????

[nhrifle]

The extractor slot shouldn't be a problem to open with hand tools if reasonable care is taken. In fact it may be on the generous size already, so if you are only going to nudge the barrel a little bit it may still work. Yeah I have heard of Jerry, watched a few videos of him doing some amazing things. Haven't yet met the man but hope to some day.

It might be worth your time to discuss this project with Goodsteel, a member here who has done some truly beautiful work on guns he has built, might have some good advice.

[MattOrgan]

Go slow here, if your magazine tube hanger, sights, extractor, and everything else lines up now, tightening barrel may be the first step in having to deal with a lot of other things. If you decide to proceed make sure you have good barrel clamping blocks and an action wrench that fits. Both can be made in the shop pretty easily. Be sure and completely dis-assemble the rifle. If you leave the bolt in with the extractor you may break the extractor. I would say that the extractor groove can be widened if necessary, but I'd do it with a needle file. I've widened the extractor cut slightly on Springfield 03 barrels when re barreling actions with used barrels so the extractor will clear. A Dremel type tool can cut too much, too fast and you'll need a new barrel. To get a barrel to "time up" correctly for a problem as you've described a safe edge file can be used to shorten the barrel shoulder slightly, very slightly. Have a set of headspace gauges on hand too. I haven't experienced maximum headspace in 94 Winchesters, but the chambers can be large. I've never found Winchester 94 barrels to be torqued very tight in my experience and the receiver ring is thin and short, so again go slow.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Depreacher]

THANKS Nhrifle and Mattorgan,
Excellent advice, but I shot it today for the first time, 150 Lee rnfp/28 gr. 4064 @ 25 yds. It shot 1 " low with the rear sight on the last high notch, while 3 shots made a 3/4" c to c group. The front sight is way too tall. Hmmm, Before I spend all this $ on that rifle, Wrench and vise, receiver block from Brownells, or a trip to clark custom guns. 120 mile trip overall to get it there, and another 120 to get it back 2 weeks later plus a bill for $125 to $150, lets think a minute. No more than it's canted, how about a shorter front sight, which will appear as if it's leaning less, and a Williams 5D rear sight which will only have to adjusted slightly off center for accurate shooting. Much cheaper, while I ponder whether I really want to do this or not. Sorry for the trouble I put you two through, but You helped me make a decision, for sure. THANKS all. Depreacher

[Depreacher]

Gents, I'm back. Mounted the fool proof receiver sight and had to move it almost all the way to the right to get on at 100 yds. Too much for me. Just bought a Wheeler Barrel vise on Fleabay for $69.59 and FREE shipping from Opticsplanet. Bought from them before, they're great. Can't trade off the 94, found it to be a cast boolit tack driver. Now I need to find a steel brace to go in the receiver. As for an action wrench, I thought about a 30" spruce 2x4 (don't faint yet), mounted edgeways to a 8" 2x4 edgeways with two 9" all threads going through both with washers and nuts. The contact area on both sides would be about 1 1/2" or so. If I made it out of 2" x 3/4" steel in the same dimensions and manner it would be great but also expensive, or would it ??? I don't know steel prices and I've got lots of 2x4's. All help appreciated, as always.

[John Taylor]

You should not need to remove any metal to go another 2 degrees.On 94's I use a large crescent wrench with a piece of thick paper to protect the finish. Make sure the lever is down enough so the extractor will clear the barrel and use the wrench close to the barrel end. A couple rods ( I use 3/16" key stock about a foot long) sitting on the barrel and action will show when things are lined up. On round barrels one rod goes in the rear sight dovetail. Put a little lube on the threads and if it seems to tight to go all the way then work the action back and forth, tightening and loosing, it will go a little further each time. If it seems to loose then some blue loctite on the threads will keep it from moving ( make sure the threads are clean of oil). I use aluminum "V" blocks on octagon barrels, a piece of paper around the barrel will keep the finish clean.

[nhrifle]

Another option in this case is something I did once before on a rifle with a similar problem. Since the front sight needs to be replaced anyway, the blade could be heated up and gently bent in the correct direction to center the sights on target. The idea is to adjust the position of the top of the blade and allow the base to fit properly in the dovetail without noticeable overhang on either side. This would correct the POI without disturbing the barrel, which may be desirable since it shoots so well as is.

[EDG]

You could simply loosen the barrel and turn it back to position. It might take 2 or 3 or 4 times to get the material to yield a little. Go slow and sneak up on it. The change may be so small that the extractor groove may not need work. At the most it might need to be widened slightly with a file.

[Depreacher]

GREAT advise, thanks all. I will try the GENTLE tightning first. If no dice, I'll try the loosening/ tightning routine. My neighbor has a large Crescent wrench (mine is only a tiny 14" job) with paper sheilding and thin soft lead shims. I sure don't want to mark this baby up. Do I need an inner brace, or will the bolt pulled back 1/8" and the floorplate be enough support? I may need to remove a couple screws too. Is the wooden 2x4s action wrench a bad idea ??? I can buy a 36"x1"x2" steel bar to make a wrench. Sorry about all the questions. THANKS again