Webley & Scott 455 Mark 1 self loading pistol

[twitch]

Would like any info on cutting down and loading 45 colt's for this gun. Thanks

[45 2.1]

Would like any info on cutting down and loading 45 colt's for this gun. Thanks

Somewhat time consuming, but has been done. Get the case specs and access to a lathe. Lathe skills and some tooling that is simple to make helps here. Turn off the rim and cut an extractor groove, cut to length and deburr. The Lee 230 gr. RN tumble lube boolit works in this cartridge and functions well.

[twitch]

Best place to get .455 dia. lead boolits in quanities of 100 or less.

[45 2.1]

Best place to get .455 dia. lead boolits in quanities of 100 or less.

Casting your own (cast out of soft alloy, air cooled and lubed work OK in it).............. I've shot the Brit handgun in question with the preceding qualifications for about 30 shots, not mine but I cobbled the ammo for it. Do not over stress it as that big leaf mainspring can break and it's replacement would be difficult.

[ddixie884]

Does my memory fail me, or is this a semi-rim cartridge?

[Dutchman]

From: The Webley Story by Dowd
http://www.amazon.com/The-Webley-Story-Revolvers-Development/dp/0939683040

Hornady makes a swaged soft lead "cowboy" bullet knurled tumble lubed .454" 250 grs. I've shot .452" cast bullets for .45 acp successfully.

Pistol, S.L., Mark I overall length min-max: 1.215"-1.230"
Specified velocity: 710 fps +/- 30 fps @ 30 feet from muzzle.
Pressure and accuracy same as the .455 revolver cartridge: mean chamber pressure 4.8 tons/sq.inch. Maximum individual pressure 4.9 tons/sq.inch (long tons = 2,240 pounds). (4.8 tons = 10,752 pounds).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean

http://images114.fotki.com/v74/photos/2/28344/3886627/photo-vi.jpg

http://images45.fotki.com/v148/photos/2/28344/3886627/photo-vi.jpg

from: Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions by Donnelly & Towsley
http://images53.fotki.com/v1495/photos/2/28344/3886627/photo1-vi.jpg

[ddixie884]

Notice that Dutchman included the load specs. I believe the 225gr RN is the proper bullet for this rnd. The original is a 1R or roughly hemispherical in shape, and had a cupronickel FMJ. I see it is the middle bullet in the illustration. Good info Dutchman. THANX for sharing........

[varifleman]

Here for your viewing pleasure is my Webley-Scott .455 1913 MK1 Navy automatic pistol serial number 3800. This pistol (serial number 3800) was 1 of 1919 (serial numbers 3691-5609) delivered to the Royal Navy in December 1914. It served through most of WWI. Close-up photos show the (19)14 acceptance date above the Crown/GR on the frame and breech-block, the serial number, the broad arrow property mark on the grip and a 7-pack of .455 ammo dated January 30, 1919 .Also shown are several rounds of .455 Eley Self-loading ammo with 1917 and 1918 headstamps. I also have the Webley/Eley Mark I .455 brass and bullets from Buffalo Arms for reloading this ammo. I haven't shot this hefty pistol yet but am looking forward to doing so once Ole Man Winter exits so I can get out to the range.

[bhn22]

Could 45 Win Mag brass be used to make the cases? It could save having to do lathe work. The rim might be slightly small though.
95751

[Southern Son]

varifleman,
Dude, what a first post!!!!!!!!! Mate, I love that pistol. One of the coolest guns I have seen posted. Only a Webley Fosbery could top that.


Thanks.

[varifleman]

Here for your perusal is another pistol which uses the .455 Mark I Webley Auto cartridge: British Government Contract 1917 .455 Eley Colt Government Model Pistol No. W 92124 which was 1 of 300 shipped to the London Armoury Company on March 30, 1917. Photos show British Military Crossed Pennants and Broad Arrow property and proof marks. Also shown are following markings on barrel: .455 CAL Auto S L (self-loading); broad arrow property mark; .9 in brass length and 9 lbs/sq in pressure and close-ups of .455 magazine.

[varifleman]

Hi Southernson: An original Webley-Fosbery would top that but for the price. In surfing the web I found this interesting tidbit: it looks like the PHSADC (Pakistan Hunting Sporting Arms Development Company) will offer modern production Webley-Fosberys in both .455 Eley and .38 so it will be interesting to see the price and quality of these pistols when they're offered for sale. You can see photos of the prototype pistol at the Company's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pakistan-Hunting-Sporting-Arms-Development-Company-Phsadc/179036122242220.

[The Virginian]

I would go with the .45 Colt as the parent case and use .455 Webley dies from LEE to load them as .45 ACP dies will size them down too much.

[varifleman]

A few more photos to show a 7-pack of Royal Navy issue .455 Eley semi-rimmed self-loading Mark I ammo dated January 30, 1919 (shown in previous posting) and loose rounds with 1917 and 1918 head stamps. This 224 grain cupro-nickel jacketed bullet was produced from 1913 thru the early 1940s and was used with these pistols and the WWI British Contract .455 Colt Government Model pistols. Notice the "Not for Revolvers" warning to prevent this ammo from being used with the .455 Webley & Scott WWI-issue revolvers which used the rimmed 220 grain flat nose .455 cartridge 455 Webley Mk IV introduced in 1912 and the .455 Webley Mk V introduced in 1914. Also shown is the open recoil operated action of this pistol. The Webley-Scott instead used a simple v-shape leaf spring and operating arm. The arm was pushed rearward by the short recoiling slide (pushed back by the backwards forces of expending propellent) and acted against a v-shaped spring nestled in the right panel of the pistol grip. A risky venture, a thin recoil spring packed into the grip alongside the seven round pistol magazine.
As to the magazine, where most modern and successful auto-loading handguns have a follower hold open (a part of hte magazine which rounds are seated on and push upwards until empty) the W&S did not. That means when the pistol fired the last round, the slide simply cycled and returned to battery. No hold open to lock the slide back, alerting the firer to a dry guy.
Gallipoli Peninsula, Turkey. 1915. The photo show Commander C R Samson, standing beside a single seat Nieuport 10 aircraft with a Webley-Scott Navy Model 1913 MK1 pistol in his hand about to start on one of his little excursions over the Turkish lines. Commander Samson commanded No. 3 Squadron, Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) Wing, based on Tenedos Island, which took part in the operations at the Dardanelles.