Anybody using Pewter?

[kawalekm]

A good source of tin and antimony for bullet casting is pewter. By law, any alloy called pewter must be at least 85% tin, with the rest being lead and antimony. When at the flea market or yard sales, it's easy to spot old pewter. When you flip it over and look at the legion printed on the bottom, it usually says pewter. Even if unlabeled, it's easy to spot because it's so soft, it's easy to deform (that's why people get rid of it cheap at yard sales). I recently visited a pewter manufacturer and learned that the pewter currently on the market is now lead-free, with a composition of 97/3% tin/antimony. While I was there, I bought about 20lbs of floor turnings for 10$. That's 97/3% alloy for 50 cents per lb. For casting now, I melt enough wheelweights to get 19lbs of metal and throw in 1lb of melted down pewter turnings. That should make my alloy very close to Lyman's #2 with only 50 cents of tin added (wheelweights are free). Casting results have been excellent. Anyone else here casting alloy with pewter?
Michael

[madcaster]

I have a friend who does just that,he finds it at flea markets and yardsales.It keeps a shiny color on the boolits as well.

[felix]

A third pound of that would be more than enough for 20 pounds of WW. ... felix

[shotstring]

Pewter normally also contains copper - up to 2 1/2% although normally closer to .5%. I wonder what the pieces with the higher copper content would do to the melt? I think we discussed this on a thread earlier with solder that contained small amounts of copper, but 2 1/2% isn't so small an amount.

[Shiloh]

Pewter normally also contains copper - up to 2 1/2% although normally closer to .5%. I wonder what the pieces with the higher copper content would do to the melt? I think we discussed this on a thread earlier with solder that contained small amounts of copper, but 2 1/2% isn't so small an amount.


Copper would probably be a hardening alloy. Similar to copper being added to silver at .075 %. When done at this percentage it becomes Sterling Silver. Hence, 925 being stamped on Sterling flatware, jewelry and ornamental items.


I have also acquired pewter on the cheap at garage sales for alloying purposes.
:castmine:

[felix]

No, the percentage is 7.5 percent copper. Now, that's an idea! I wonder what would happen if one ounce of that Sterling accidently (damn costly) dropped into a pot of WW? The problem with copper, in lead, is that the flux we use for the mix is worthless in keeping the copper equally distributed throughout the mix, and most especially when the mix is dropped into the mold. Copper cools so fast that it tends to migrate as fast as a beach ball in the swimming pool. Silver just might be the electronic glue required to keep the copper in solution. ... felix

[Ohio Rusty]

If you have some pewter and your are thinking of pouring it into a bullet mould (AAACK!!) I'll trade you straight WW ingots for the pewter. I use pewter for pouring the ammenities on knife handles and bolsters. Pewter is lead free and can be used on utensils that you might east with.
Ohio Rusty ><>
Psalms 27:1-2/91:9-11 (AMP)

[kawalekm]

Sorry Rusty, I think you missed this sentence ....

"For casting now, I melt enough wheelweights to get 19lbs of metal and throw in 1lb of melted down pewter turnings".

Sorry, but I won't be trading any of that. I don't make pewter bullets, just use it to enrich my ww alloy, to make it close to Lyman alloy #2. Casting results with it have been superb, with clean sharp edges, and uniform air vent tails on every bullet.
Michael

[jim4065]

Michael - ".....uniform air vent tails on every bullet."

I'm missing these completely, except for when I fail to close the mold all the way and the boolit gets fins. By any chance do you have a pic of this? Sounds like you're getting much better fill-out than I am - need to increase the tin (or find some pewter).

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hmmm... I'm gonna have to go scrounging...

I usually add 1-2% tin to my WWs, so I'd be looking at 1/3rd to 4/10ths of a lb. of pewter to a 19.6lb pot of WWs... Even if the pewter contained 2.5% copper, at the ratio I'm using pewter to WWs, I'm thinking the finished alloy would have .01lbs of copper in the 20-lb pot. That works out to .05% of the finished alloy being copper. Would that be enough to cause casting/alloying/fluxing problems?

[felix]

No, you are good to go. ... felix

[MakeMineA10mm]

No, you are good to go. ... felix

felix, thanks.

Did you check my math? (It wasn't my strong suit in school...) Am I calculating/thinking right on the percentages?

.05% seemed awfully small to me. I believe I've read elsewhere that WWs may have that much copper in them... Didn't seem logical that it would cause a problem, but it keeps getting mentioned.

[felix]

Nah, did not check the math because it won't offer anything over what Michael said above. If he is getting that kind of fillout, and especially getting that mold groove leak, the mix is staying plenty hot enough for keeping the copper within Dodge City. ... felix

[GrizzLeeBear]

A third pound of that would be more than enough for 20 pounds of WW. ... felix

Hey, finally a use for those 1/2 lb. slots in the the Lee ingot mold! Scrounge a bunch of old pewter stuff at yardsales and flea markets. Melt them down and pour into 1/2 lb. ingots. Then just add one of these pewter ingot to a 20 lb. pot of WW.


Ooooh, just noticed. Post 150. I'm now a "Boolit Master"! Is that like a Jedi Master? LOL

[leftiye]

Am I missing something? or is brass copper and tin? (reads brazing rod) How hard would it be to alloy this with silver in order to get an alloy that would go into pure lead or whatever in small amounts, and keep the copper homogenous and below the amount that becomes problematical? Maybe add enough tin that you could get 20 to 1 alloy containing silver and copper in good proportions by adding an lb. to 19 lbs.. Good for tough expanding boolits.

[Ricochet]

I think the "air vent tails" referred to meant that the sprue cutoffs were nice and even. :)

[jh45gun]

fine: for eatingware, with 96-99 percent tin, and 1-4 percent copper
trifle: also for eating and drinking utensils but duller in appearance, with 92 percent tin, 1-6 percent copper, and up to 4 percent lead
lay/ley: not for eating or drinking utensils, which could contain up to 15 percent lead

I suppose they are more carefull now but back in the old days they ate and drank on pewter utensils that caused problems. Myself I would not take a chance eating or drinking with any pewter item.

[kawalekm]

I've found a fantastic old book called "Fortunes in Formulas" by Books, Inc of New York. It's dated 1957 and has about 900 pages of recipes of chemical formulas for making household items. It gives recipes for things like how to make paint, match heads, and portland cement. Their recipe for 1950's pewter is ...

79% tin
10% lead
7% antimony
2% bismuth
2% copper

Today's modern lead-free pewter recipe is 97% tin, 3% antimony, so if there is a trace of copper at all it's less than 1% (recipe for Selangor Pewter of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia). Assuming that I used just antique pewter (which I have), at a ratio of 1:20 lbs of ww metal, the total copper added would only be about 0.1%. This is the ratio that gives me pretty vent tails. This is all fluxed with Marvalux about 10 times during the casting session. I tried taking a photo for you but my camera does't focus close enough to see them in the picture. I'm not talking about the sprue on top. By vent holes, I mean the little horizontal groves cut into the sides of the block to vent air out as lead is poured in. Those are what fill in, and the bullets come out looking like little pin cushions.
Michael

[Ron]

Kawalekm,
I don't know what your problem is but you should NOT have vent holes filled with lead. Your boolits should be smooth and clean with no signs of vent lines on them. I think it has probably something to do with temperature but I am sure, one of the older hands here will set you right and fix your problem.

[kawalekm]

I'm sorry Ron, but I have to disagree with that. I think the vent holes filling is reaching the ulitmate in good bullet pouring. If fill-out is so good that the vent hole fill, every other single spot inside the mold is full. I can see that all my edges are razor sharp without any rounding at all. These bullets are beautiful and I'm going to strive for it every time. A vent hole bullet is a flawless bullet!
Michael

[jim4065]

............ A vent hole bullet is a flawless bullet!
Michael

Michael,

I guess to each his own - I want my boolits to look like the inside of the mould, absolutely smooth. Still kind of curious how you're getting the surface tension that low. Sounds like either a LOT of heat (which may cause gassing) or a very high percentage of tin (which tends to be expensive). A last thought - does this happen with all of your moulds? Maybe someone used a tool to open up the vents too much?

I don't have the experience of 98% of the people on this site - but I'd be willing to bet that most of 'em don't get (or want) those "pin-cushion" boolits.

Jim

[leftiye]

I've had vent whiskers at times, usually when "pressure casting" (holding the mold against the spout on a bottom pour pot). It probably is more prevalent with some alloys than others. Right now I'm not getting any with a mold Beagled out to have .003 gap between the blocks! No fins either. Slightly more pronounced mold lines is all. This is when run very hot and casting linotype. So, vent lines or even outright gaps don't always allow lead into the gaps I guess.

I used to equate whiskers with good boolits (they're not bad) but now I think that they may also go with a casting situation that allows some voids along with the good fillout.

So, how much copper can we get away with using in our alloys?

[45nut]

Just found some interesting info.....

Common Pewter.

Melt in a crucible 7 lbs. of tin, and when fused throw in 1 lb. of lead, 6 oz. of copper and 2 oz. of zinc. This combination of metals will form an alloy of great durability and tenacity; also of considerable lustre.

Best Pewter.

The best sort of pewter consists of 100 parts of tin, and 17 of regulus of antimony.

Hard Pewter.

Melt together 12 lbs. of tin, 1 lb. of regulus of antimony, and 4 oz. of copper.


http://www.mspong.org/cyclopedia/metallurgy.html#alloys

http://www.mspong.org/cyclopedia/contents.html

These are supposed to be about 100 year old "recipes".

[blysmelter]

Scored at a norwegian auction-site a couple of days ago, 39pouns of pewter for less than 60$.
Coupled with the near 50pounds of babbit I have I guess I dont have to worry about ten for some time to come:-)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y264/thenorwegianengineer/tinn.jpg

[kawalekm]

Wow, that's impressive. A few of the pieces I wouldn't melt down though. That plate on the left looks like its a collectable. Might look nice on your wall! Other things like the water pitchers could go right into the melting pot. With Lyman's #2 you've got enough for 20 to 30 thousand bullets.
Michael

[Ricochet]

I was thinking the same thing, some of those objects look nice.

[scb]

If you want to know exactly what your getting check out:
http://www.rotometals.com/_c_1.html?gclid=CNylnp_ArZACFRikQAodwQryLQ
I'm going to try some of the #4 Hardware Babbitt. I can't tell the differance between pewter and zink. Is there a way to tell? I'm sure there must be, just don't know what it is.

[jim4065]

The brandy? tank looks really nice also. Got to believe most of that stuff would fetch a high dollar on ebay, surely enough to buy twice the weight in straight tin.

[blysmelter]

Not worth anything over here, most of it is suvernir-junk. It will all go into the pot!

[Morgan Astorbilt]

If you want to know exactly what your getting check out:
http://www.rotometals.com/_c_1.html?gclid=CNylnp_ArZACFRikQAodwQryLQ
I'm going to try some of the #4 Hardware Babbitt. I can't tell the differance between pewter and zink. Is there a way to tell? I'm sure there must be, just don't know what it is.

Zinc is very active. A bit of acid will cause it to bubble as the acid eats it away.
Morgan

[blysmelter]

A quick update, all that pewter (and some more scrounged up last weeks) is now melted down to nice 1/4pound ingots. Will take and post pic as soon as I have stcked them in a nice pile:-)

[rickomatic]

You guys got me intrigued. I hit a few second hand stores the past week or so, and ended up scoring about 2-1/2 pounds of pewter junk. It's not real plentiful, and I only got the "cheap" pieces I found. I'm in to it for a little over $15 total.
Ebay has some pewter ingots for sale that seem to be going for about $23 per pound plus shipping, so I think I did ok. Plus, it looks like a little bit goes a long way.

I'm new to this and have a question. I got some lead ingots off Ebay, and am not sure of the exact alloy. I think it's wheel weights, but not sure. Should I get a hardness tester to start before I try alloying in any pewter? :coffee:

[2muchstuf]

rickomatic,
I don't know what your setup is but you might try casting your alloy as is if you haven't already. I had good luck laddling with straight WW but when I started using a bottom pour I needed to add tin ( pewter ) 1.6oz to 10lb . Should be about 1.75% given that pewter isn't pure tin.
I don't have a hardness tester either, guess we all should, a little pricey though.
Good luck.

2

[Taylor]

Hey guys,a question on this if you don't mind.The wife and I are always going to flea markets and yard sales. I recently found 2 beer mugs that say English Pewter,at the same market,there are several pieces of "metal" labeled "pewter",but not marked by the maker.Is there a way to be sure?My apologies for butting in,but didn't want to miss out on boolit metal,if I have found some. Thanks.

[rickomatic]

I am a newbie to this whole thing, but my understanding is that if it says "Pewter" on the bottom, it is pewter. The exact alloy may vary a bit, but from my understanding most modern day pewter is like 90% tin, with antimony and possibly a little copper.
All the stuff I got at the second hand stores said "pewter" on the bottom, and has a sort of dull "silver" color and patina to it. What I always thought was pewter before, that grayish colored metal, I think is some kind of aluminum alloy or pot metal.
Again, I'm a newbie, but that is what I've seen in my limited experience. :drinks:

[AllanD]

I'm hesitant to tell an important near pewter material....

Ever see those bits of silver plated "junk" at garage sales?
you know the silver plate where the plating is worn down to copper
and the item is in the $0.50 bin?

Look closely at those items.... near the "proof mark" where it'll say "silver plate"
It will frequently have four important little letters:
EPNS or EPBM

The more common type of plated silver items is usually the EPNS
which stands for Electro-Plated Nickel Silver (which actually contains NO silver)
"Nickel Silver" is actually a Nickel Copper alloy, this is of little or no interest to us.

what is of interest is the usually cheaper type of plated silver, EPBM
"Electro-Plated Britannia Metal" Britannia metal is essentially a "Fine Pewter"
as it contains a 93/5/2 mix of Tin/Antimony/Copper

[jim4065]

I'm hesitant to tell an important near pewter material....

Ever see those bits of silver plated "junk" at garage sales?
you know the silver plate where the plating is worn down to copper
and the item is in the $0.50 bin?

Look closely at those items.... near the "proof mark" where it'll say "silver plate"
It will frequently have four important little letters:
EPNS or EPBM

The more common type of plated silver items is usually the EPNS
which stands for Electro-Plated Nickel Silver (which actually contains NO silver)
"Nickel Silver" is actually a Nickel Copper alloy, this is of little or no interest to us.

what is of interest is the usually cheaper type of plated silver, EPBM
"Electro-Plated Britannia Metal" Britannia metal is essentially a "Fine Pewter"
as it contains a 93/5/2 mix of Tin/Antimony/Copper

Holy Cow!

[Nardoo]

I use a lot of pewter in my alloys. I was running low on the 25:1 lead/tin mix I use in my sharps 45/90 last weekend. Using stick-on ww's and pewter mixed at about 32/1 I got the same weight bullets and hardness is close too.

Nardoo

[AllanD]

Holy Cow!

I was hesitant to tell it because it's one place where I scrounge up tin.

It makes even the most dreary garage sale, flea market, etc, more attractive....


Finding a couple beat up EPBM silver plated items at a flea market or at
a scrap dealer...

Anw who knows, that tiny ammount of electro-plate silver that dissoves into your melt may make the difference next time you need to use one of your cast bullets to stop a charging werewolf:groner:

AD

[rickomatic]

Guess I'll have to go back to all the second hand stores I cleaned out of "pewter" and look again for EPBM.... :-D

[Goatlips]

After seeing the John Adams series, I picked up the book by David McCullough, and there on page 21 is a description of the British in 1775, appropriating what they needed from the shore towns per Abagail Adams:

" ...the comings and goings of (British) soldiers. They stopped by their door for food and slept on her kitchen floor. Pewter spoons were melted for bullets in her fireplace."

Am looking forward to reading this book.

Goatlips

[Peregrine]

I'm hesitant to tell an important near pewter material....

Ever see those bits of silver plated "junk" at garage sales?
you know the silver plate where the plating is worn down to copper
and the item is in the $0.50 bin?

Look closely at those items.... near the "proof mark" where it'll say "silver plate"
It will frequently have four important little letters:
EPNS or EPBM

The more common type of plated silver items is usually the EPNS
which stands for Electro-Plated Nickel Silver (which actually contains NO silver)
"Nickel Silver" is actually a Nickel Copper alloy, this is of little or no interest to us.

what is of interest is the usually cheaper type of plated silver, EPBM
"Electro-Plated Britannia Metal" Britannia metal is essentially a "Fine Pewter"
as it contains a 93/5/2 mix of Tin/Antimony/Copper

Thanks for this! I now have something new to look for at the thrift stores. I've handled many items that have those designations on them, now I know what i'm looking at.
Not like i'm hard up for more tin though, i've got more than enough for the moment but raiding the local stores is a bit of an obsession.

[TexasGrunt]

189291


9 year old thread. That's getting close to a record.

[blackthorn]

189291


9 year old thread. That's getting close to a record.

Interesting nevertheless!!

[Peregrine]

Heh, wow. I usually know better, I swear! :p
Ah well, hopefully that tidbit helps someone else too.

[Shiloh]

I have used pewter for tin. I find that for most casting situations, at least mine, it is unnecessary. There seems to be enough in my scrounged WW and range lead to cast good boolits.

Shiloh

[Maximilian225]

189291


9 year old thread. That's getting close to a record.
[emoji23] [emoji23] I laughed way to hard at this. [emoji23] [emoji23]

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[mjwcaster]

Well I learned something new- EPBM.

Also learned of one use for the oscars-
According to Wikipedia, the Oscar statue is 8.5lbs of EPBM, coated in gold.


Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[TexasGrunt]

Well I learned something new- EPBM.

Also learned of one use for the oscars-
According to Wikipedia, the Oscar statue is 8.5lbs of EPBM, coated in gold.


Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

Sounds like those Oscar guys do have an actual use.

[2manygunz]

No, the percentage is 7.5 percent copper. Now, that's an idea! I wonder what would happen if one ounce of that Sterling accidently (damn costly) dropped into a pot of WW? The problem with copper, in lead, is that the flux we use for the mix is worthless in keeping the copper equally distributed throughout the mix, and most especially when the mix is dropped into the mold. Copper cools so fast that it tends to migrate as fast as a beach ball in the swimming pool. Silver just might be the electronic glue required to keep the copper in solution. ... felix
Years ago, I worked in a gunshop. We had a customer come in who was having problems "sticking" bullets in the barrel of his revolver. He had us stumped, because all of his procedures and load seemed "by the book" Nothing bumping on the high or low ends of good practices.
After a lot of head-scratching, it came out that his alloy was recycled. The bulk of his cast was high grade silver solder. The bullets removed from his barrel with a mallet and close-fitting rod looked like engraved FMJ projectiles. After several visits, he reported that he had to mix his "old" alloy with 3 parts lead before the gun started working normally again.