Need some ideas for a unique single shot rifle for a book

[44minimum]

I posted this elsewhere, but I might get a better response here.

Here is a question for you folks- I need some kind of weird, obscure, or uncommon type of highly accurate single shot rifle that I can have my 50-year-old reformed hired killer use in my next book. I don't want just a plain old Sharp's chambered in .45-90, I would like it to be something rather unique, maybe in an unusual chambering, something that would've been used in 1870s and 1880s. Got any ideas?

[Janoosh]

Cap firing Maynard. One of the first cartridge guns, the brass case had a pinhole in the back. A percussion cap was used on the action. Sort of like a 63 Sharps but with a cartridge.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

A friend has a baby Snider in 360 Rook!

[Driver man]

Martini Henry Mk2, used by the british.

[pietro]

.

How about a Frank Wesson falling block Sporting Rifle ?

http://www.steveearleproducts.com/rifle%20side%201.jpg

http://www.steveearleproducts.com/midrange%202.JPG http://www.steveearleproducts.com/midrange%203.JPG



.

[44minimum]

This Frank Wesson has potential. I'll need to do a little research on it.

[Green Lizzard]

two trigger frank wesson 44 flat 1858

[45-70 Chevroner]

How about a 45 caliber air gun.

[AlaskanGuy]

+ 1 for the frank wesson lever gun....

[herbert buckland]

Soper match rifle in No 2 musket caliber,a uncommon rifle but highly thought of in the 1870-80s and the cartridge was one of rhe all time top long range BP cartridges

[Outpost75]

Your hero should be using a new, cutting edged, secret technology, a high velocity, small caliber paper patched bullet with SMOKELESS powder! Go into the alchemy of making a colloid of guncotton and extruding tubes of cordite which would be inserted into the case, being held in place with a card wad before the case is necked. Oh yes, a .303 Inch, 215 grain bullet at an astounding velocity of 1950 fps! With great penetration and no smoke to give away the gunner's position.

His task to covertly kill a foreign dictator in Mexico, using his skills as a Scottish deer stalker, lying in his hide to shoot the Hun bastard through the head at 1000 yards, blowing his brains out before anyone even hears the shot!

A single shot Martini in a secret experimental development of Queen Victoria's clandestine service, why, the .303 British, of course!

[357Mag]

.44Minimum -

Howdy !

Check-out the " Jacobs' Rifle ", at " 19thcentury weapons.com ".

It fired an " explosive bullet " out to 1,800yd; and was used to blow-up ammunition wagons.

For most any caliber/bullet, one could make them quasi-explosive in terminal performance.... by filling a central cavity w/ mercury; and the covering w/ a suitable
close-out materiel. One movie where this was used was " Day of the Jackal ", starring British actor Michael Fox ( early -70's ).

In practice, suitable depth and other dimensions of the cavity ( or hollow-point ) would need to be validated, to ensure a stabile & accurate bullet.
But, these challenges are workable.


With regards,
357Mag

[Reverend Al]

Check-out the " Jacobs' Rifle " at "19thcentury weapons.com ". It fired an "explosive bullet " out to 1,800yd; and was used to blow-up ammunition wagons.

I'm a fan of the Jacobs rifles too (mainly because I own one!), but typically they were side by side double rifles rather than single shots, although I understand that there were some single shot rifles made up for testing the Jacobs style rifling and "banded" bullets by Brigadier General John Jacobs himself. (By the way since we're talking about them ... does anyone happen to have a mould for a Jacobs .54 calbre rifle? I don't have one to go with my rifle ...)

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/JACOBSdbBULLET_zps0fb3cb14.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/JACOBSdbBULLET_zps0fb3cb14.jpg.html)

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/JacobsRiflebullets_zpse09de0b0.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/JacobsRiflebullets_zpse09de0b0.jpg.html)

[JHeath]

.44Minimum -

Howdy !

Check-out the " Jacobs' Rifle ", at " 19thcentury weapons.com ".

It fired an " explosive bullet " out to 1,800yd; and was used to blow-up ammunition wagons.

For most any caliber/bullet, one could make them quasi-explosive in terminal performance.... by filling a central cavity w/ mercury; and the covering w/ a suitable
close-out materiel. One movie where this was used was " Day of the Jackal ", starring British actor Michael Fox ( early -70's ).

In practice, suitable depth and other dimensions of the cavity ( or hollow-point ) would need to be validated, to ensure a stabile & accurate bullet.
But, these challenges are workable.


With regards,
357Mag


Jefferson Davis owned a Devisme exploding-bullet rifle, now in the collection of the Springfield Armory Museum:

http://ww3.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCGI.exe?IDCFile=/spring/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=14215,DATABASE=40968253,

Devisme rifles appear to be period-correct, up to about 1875.

The catalog description suggests the Devisme may be the "infernal machine" Davis was accused of possessing when arrested by Union troops.

When you cast exploding bullets for a Jacobs or Devisme, do you put the explosive in the melting pot before the lead, or put the lead first and add the explosive after? :>0

[44minimum]

Those Jacobs rifles sound like fun, but I would like a cartridge weapon.

Pietro, I just cannot seem to find out a whole lot about a Frank Wesson falling block. You know of any online sources you can point me to? I would kind of like to see an exploded diagram of one, and I would like to know if you can take them down for transport in a storage case and things like that. Can anyone point me to anything?

[Green Lizzard]

there always seems to be a couple on gun broker if you just need pics

[EDG]

Peabody in .43 Spanish Remington

Another very obscure is the Lee Vertical Action in 45-70.
I think only about 143 were made.

I think it is a beautiful appearing rifle but kind of a bad idea so far as the action design goes.
http://collectorebooks.com/gregg01/usantique/DSC00094b.jpg

more photos

http://www.19thcenturyweapons.com/1010/long/vblee.html

[Lead Fred]

How about a Wesson tip up rifle in 45/70

86491

http://buffaloclassic.tripod.com/

[Norbrat]

Farquharson rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farquharson_rifle

[gandydancer]

I posted this elsewhere, but I might get a better response here.

Here is a question for you folks- I need some kind of weird, obscure, or uncommon type of highly accurate single shot rifle that I can have my 50-year-old reformed hired killer use in my next book. I don't want just a plain old Sharp's chambered in .45-90, I would like it to be something rather unique, maybe in an unusual chambering, something that would've been used in 1870s and 1880s. Got any ideas?

check out the Peabody rifle mfg in road island.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peabody_action

[Kermit1945]

Peabody Martinis. Check out Tom Rowe's book. You can see all of it online.

http://www.blurb.com/books/4112984-engraved-interesting-peabody-martinis#

[44minimum]

You guys have given me lots of good ideas, but I'm going to have to go with that Frank Wesson. That's just a gorgeous rifle. Thanks for all the input. Now I'm going to have to find out about its cartridges.

[John Taylor]

How about a Remington Beals. Very short lived rifle. Drop the lever down and the barrel slides forward. There were only 700 made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtD1pugLNf0

[John Allen]

how about something a little earlier such as a whitworth rifle. The hook might be the fact that the bullets are fitted to the rifling.

[fouronesix]

Watch the movie "Crossfire Trail" and check out the scoped 40-60 Remington-Keene the hired killer (Beau Dorn) uses... played by Brad Johnson. The movie is set in the early 1880s so would be correct for your timeline.

Here's a link to some of the movie's still clips showing the Remington-Keene, and other firearms.

While not a single shot, it seems plenty "unique" to me and is period correct.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Crossfire_Trail#Remington-Keene_Repeating_Rifle

[uscra112]

I believe that a poster on the ASSRA site just bought that Frank Wesson. Or one just like it.

[Knight Templar]

How about a Strong/Dickerman?
http://books.google.com/books?id=fR4jAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA264&lpg=PA264&dq=dickerman+strong+rifle&source=bl&ots=NpJ8V7grJI&sig=SKYdgUulqnpqFrAXuqSDV7Db9cc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IyaCUqCrCqTgyQHUloGoBA&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=dickerman%20strong%20rifle&f=false

[John Boy]

I don't want just a plain old Sharp's chambered in .45-90, I would like it to be something rather unique, maybe in an unusual chambering, something that would've been used in 1870s and 1880s. Got any ideas?
A fully engraved & carved M Gruny Martini Schuetzen Rifle in an obsolete 9.5x47R caliber that was created in 1880 and lasted for 10-15 years.
There are 3 known owners in the US with rifles bored for the 9.5x47R - no known examples for the bullet - was re-created from a photo on a page in a turn of the century German ammunition catalog - the schematic of the bullet sent to Accurate mold - last known Bertram brass obtained and reloads prepared for shooting with my data
http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1341971260/0
http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1341973264/
http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1348200433/0

[leadman]

How about a 71 Mauser single shot bolt action rifle? The rear site on it is a real interesting piece of machining.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

I always thought it would of been enteresting for someone in the late 1870s too show up with a bolt action 1871 Mauser with PP bullets and black powder now that! would of been WAY COOL!

KW
The Lunger

[Yellowhouse]

Kenny, isn't that what the shooter was using in the Streets of Laredo?

[Huvius]

Is your man American, English...?
Did he serve in the Civil War?
My vote goes to the Alex Henry hammer falling block or 1881 Westley Richards.
450 3-1/4" BPE for the Henry and 500/450 No.1 Express for the Westley.
Or a Gibbs Farquharson in 461 No.2

[fouronesix]

The gun will have to fit into the context of the story. If it is too far out, then likelihood of possession by the character goes way down and the credibility of the whole story may suffer. Since the timeline is just post-Civil War, I like the possibility of some foreign or domestic muzzleloader found on a battlefield. If the character has traveled abroad just prior to the timeline then that opens up a much larger group of arms as reasonable or believable.

That brings up the possibility of the character having been in South America, hiding out or doing some mercenary work there, then bringing back an M1879 Remington rolling block in 43 Spanish. Then having a scope mounted on it for serious long range work. :):)... seems the possibilities are endless!

[carbine]

Remington Rolling Block in 50/70. Accurate as all get out

[Huvius]

The gun will have to fit into the context of the story. If it is too far out, then likelihood of possession by the character goes way down and the credibility of the whole story may suffer...

True, but we don't even know the background of this character.
If he is a hired assassin with the means (as he should if he was good enough to get to his 50s)
he could have just about any gun available in the day.

[pietro]

Pietro, I just cannot seem to find out a whole lot about a Frank Wesson falling block. You know of any online sources you can point me to? I would kind of like to see an exploded diagram of one, and I would like to know if you can take them down for transport in a storage case and things like that.
Can anyone point me to anything ?



The falling block rifles were solid-frames (not "takedown"); but the FW tip-up/two-trigger models were.

http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/the-galleries/the-new-prosperity/case-46-creedmoor,-sea-girt-and-the-national-matches-plinky-topperwein/frank-wesson-no-2-mid-range-underlever-rifle.aspx

http://www.steveearleproducts.com/

http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Sporting%20Rifles/Frank%20Wesson/Frank%20Wesson%20No.%201%20Mid-Range/Frank%20Wesson%20No.%201%20Mid-Range.html

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/blackboat/Falling%20Block/midrange2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/blackboat/Falling%20Block/mrtopside1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/blackboat/Falling%20Block/mrunderside2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/blackboat/Falling%20Block/74lever.jpg



.

[Texantothecore]

Falling blocks were extremely expensive. Iirc, one buffalo hunter reported that he paid 276.00 for a Sharps falling block 1876 which was a huge amount of money at the time and they were primarily sold to rich guys.

Many of the day to day guns were recognizably made of parts from 4 different guns. So you can go wild.

Many of the cap and ball guns started life as flinlocks and you can see the additional woodwork on the few which still exist.

If your character was from a particularly rough area with low population he would have carried a flintlock as the caps would be nearly impossible to come by in large sections of the US. They were produced as day to day production guns through the end of the 1920s.

Bedford and Somerset counties of Pennsylvania come to mind, but any area that had low population would feature flintlocks, frequently Granddad's gun.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Yellowhouse, I think your correct on that rifle in that movie.

Joey Garza? I think it was?
Kenny W.

[Reverend Al]

A fully engraved & carved M Gruny Martini Schuetzen Rifle in an obsolete 9.5x47R caliber that was created in 1880 and lasted for 10-15 years.
There are 3 known owners in the US with rifles bored for the 9.5x47R - no known examples for the bullet - was re-created from a photo on a page in a turn of the century German ammunition catalog - the schematic of the bullet sent to Accurate mold - last known Bertram brass obtained and reloads prepared for shooting with my data

Wow ... do I ever feel privileged after reading that! I have a German made (Dresden) under-lever single shot sporting rifle and a Mauser Model 71 single shot Schuetzen target rifle ... BOTH chambered in 9.5x47R! I also bought 40 rounds of Bertram brass for the Mauser 71 (the tighter chamber of the two guns) and I've reformed a few rounds of .45-70 brass for the sporting rifle. Two more "back burner" retirement project guns that I'll get to eventually ...

I've actually shot about 15 rounds through the sporting rifle (mostly just forming brass) but I shot it twice at our Shuetzen Rifle events in local Cowboy Action Shooting matches. The 71 Mauser Shuetzen has only had one blank (powder + cornmeal) fire-forming round fired in it so far.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/Misc/Misc009_zpsd0bcf863.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/Misc/Misc009_zpsd0bcf863.jpg.html)

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy 44
Steve Earle Manufactures the Frank Wesson falling block action ,type this information into your search engine.

[Huvius]

44minimum,
Can we have some background on this character?
You say he is a "reformed hired killer", does that mean he is now on the straight and narrow?
Are the shooting scenes flashbacks to his earlier deeds?
Well monied or is he a talented shot making the most of the equipment at hand?
Long range specialist of some kind?

[hickstick_10]

I suggest one of the Alexandre Henry single shots, it looks similar to the Wesson long range rifles. The Alexandre henry rifle did fire a 450-3.25 boxer henry shell, similar in size to the 45-120 and this was in 1869.

Neat configurations abound for this gun, hammered (mounted on the left or right side) and hammerless versions and a "two position" rifle with two triggers in two seperate locations and a pistol grip under the forestock for regular and back position shooting.

[44minimum]

Boy, a lot of new responses here since I checked in last. Okay, here is the rough scenario for the book I'm working on. The reformed assassin served in the Civil War and they found out he was a good shot so they made him a sniper. Afterwards he and a friend went to Texas and became bounty hunters, then worked in the buffalo fields for two years. This is when he acquired his super special rifle and honed his long-range shooting skills. One thing led to another and before long he was a well-paid assassin. After 20 years or so the guilt gets to him, he becomes an alcoholic and cleans out stables for a living. One day a grandson that he did not know existed shows up on his doorstep, he sobers up and raises the boy, trying to set a good example for him. They make their living by gold panning and mining, then one day a gang of outlaws invade their camp, steal their gold, shoot the man in the side, and take the boy with them. The reformed assassin does not die, but he does take up his super special rifle, go after them to hunt them down and get his grandson back. This all takes place in 1897. And I think I'm going to have it set in California.

That is just a brief version. And for sure he is going to be using a Frank Wesson number one mid range and sporting rifle.

Can any of you guys think of anything else I need to throw into my book? Suggest away.

[CanoeRoller]

The date of 1897 opens up lots of interesting mechanical possibilities. You have Borchardt automatic pistols available (could tie in a Sharps Borchardt). I think the Browning potato digger (automatic rifle) dates to 1895. You have the first motorcycles, "modern" bicycles, and so on. Of course you have smokeless powders just arriving on the scene. An interesting tension of old and methodical, versus new fast and wasteful?

Steam versus gasoline.
Individual versus mass production.

[pietro]

Can any of you guys think of anything else I need to throw into my book? Suggest away.



Just a little history to consider in your plot.


Bison were hunted almost to extinction in the 19th century and were reduced to a few hundred by the mid-1880s.

After about 1830, firearms and horses, along with a growing export market for buffalo robes and bison meat had resulted in larger and larger numbers of bison killed each year.
A long and intense drought hit the southern plains in 1845, lasting into the 1860s, which caused a widespread collapse of the bison herds.

In the 1860s, the rains returned and the bison herds recovered to a degree.


.

[Yellowhouse]

I'm into this late but considering they are hardly ever mentioned in accurate detail in novels, if at all, I'd like to throw my vote toward a very special, custom Remington System rifle in 44-90 Remington. Thats a rolling block by the way....Remington didn't call them that back in the day.

[John Taylor]

Custer used a Remington rolling block to hunt buffalo and wrote a letter to Remington praising the rifle, don't know what year but it must have been before he had his little problem with the Indians.

[Multigunner]

The 40-80 Bottle Neck held the record for the smallest group in a 1000 yard match till the 25-06 came along.
Probably the best cartridge for your rifle.
The rifle could have been a gift from a wealthy sportsman he'd done a solid for years before so price would not be a barrier.
Fine rifles were also awarded as prizes at target matches so that could be a possible origin.

Around 1915 an ex Civil War sniper made the longest recorded kill of the day at aprox 1500 yards using a heavy bench mounted target rifle.
The record was not confirmed because he claimed the killing was an accident, that he'd only fired to warn off a neighboring rancher who had threatened his life.
His lawyer made the case that hitting a moving target on horse back at that range would be impossible.
It was later revealed that the old timer had marked the spot the man would have to ride through a narrow cut and timed the time of flight of his shots so he could put a bullet where the man would be when the bullet arrived.
I have an old Arms and the Man reprint with some details of that case, you might want to look it up and work such a shot into your story.

[ohland]

Rifle magazine, January-February 1975, Number 37, pages 34 and 58. In the Classic Rifles column by Ken Waters.

"full fledged match rifle designed for 1,000 yard competitive shooting". Cost $125 in 1886 (most rifles under $25). Falling block, underlever, had windgauge front with a spirit level, a tall vernier peep on the tang, and a separate mounting base on the heel of the stock for firing from the back position.

90937

2011 Gun Digest, page 58, says the owner of the rifle is writing a book on the Wesson rifles. No mention of a name.

Article mentions "The Rifle in America", Phil Sharpe

Calibers were .44-100 and .45-100, but could be had in whatever the customer wanted. Ken mentions the .44-90 Sharps, Remington B.N (bottle necked) case, .45-2.4-inch Sharps and .45-2.6 inch Sharps or Remington Straight cases, and the .45-85 Peabody-Martini.

Not sure where I got it, but the actual dimensions of the chamberings were (supposedly) special Wesson specific. The author suggested to sulfur cast the chamber. (now we use CerroSafe)

Mentioned in book "Firearms in American History: Our Rifles" page 117, by Charles Winthrop Sawyer, available in PDF off of Google Books.

Mentioned in "Single Shot Rifles" by James J. Grant, 1947

mentioned in "The Herald, volumes 5-8, page 14
"Above: Close-up of the vernier-tang sight and ornate engraving illustrate the detail of the rifle made by Frank Wesson c. ... Frank Wesson of Worcester, Massachusetts, constructed the illustrated breechloading, long- range rifle about 1878."

:coffeecom

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Frank Wesson #1 Long Range Rifle, model of 1871.

See www.steveearleproducts.com for the action. I own one that is waiting for a custom (read expensive, $650) McGowan barrel in 450-400-3".
McGowan is willing to make me a tapered octagon barrel with an integral milled tapered top rib.

Look at Steve's newest offering, a Fraser action while you are there.

[quilbilly]

You didn't say where in California he would be pursuing the kidnappers but if it was on the southern end, I would start the pursuit in the old mining camps in the New York Mountains ( E. San Bernadino County) ending in the Hollywood Hills. If in the northern end, I would start the pursuit in the lava beads where Captain Jack's Modoc Indian war climaxed (possibly being helped by a Modoc veteran) then ending in the then new agriculture and college town of Chico. Many of the old Civil War vets settled in that area (including a few of my relatives) who were refugees of Sherman's March
Either one would require some looking at pictures of that period in California and a trip to some interesting country.

[Huvius]

Can any of you guys think of anything else I need to throw into my book? Suggest away.

How about the kid has his mother's cherished diary. The writing reveals her true love for him and the remorse she has for never revealing their son to him.

Then man paper patches his bullets with the tear stained pages.:-D