Uberti or Pedersoli 1885 38-55

[Mark-II]

My father wants to buy a replica high wall rifle in 38-55 and is deciding between the Uberti and the Pedersoli offerings, with a strong leaning towards the Pedersoli, since I've not found a Uberti in stock anywhere in Canada whereas the Pedersoli is easily found.

He'll be shooting from the bench, cast bullet smokeless reloads on the lighter side.

I've heard that these rifles have an abnormally large groove diameter, which means that my Lyman mould for my .375 Winchester likely won't be large enough, nor do I see listings for H&I dies in .380/.381/.382 in the catalogues from Lyman/RCBS.

Can anyone enlighten me as to which makers rifle is of better quality, or better suited to my purpose?

Which bullet mould do you guys use, and where do you source the off-size bullet sizers from?

I do have an OLD plain based 38-55 mould that I've never used. It is a Winchester tong affair with the blocks integral to the handles. I don't know what size bullet it will drop.

[oldred]

I've heard that these rifles have an abnormally large groove diameter, which means that my Lyman mould for my .375 Winchester likely won't be large enough


No they are just as they should be and are NOT abnormally large since the 38-55 is supposed to be a .372 bore with a .379 grove, the .368 bore .375 grove is the nearly identical dimensioned 375 Winchester! Not long ago I wanted a High Wall barrel in true 38-55 but all I could find (at least in my price range) was the .375, apparently the barrel makers cheap out and use the 375 Winchester machinery instead of producing the much less in demand .379 for a true 38-55. As one member here so correctly put it when I was searching for a proper 38-55 barrel "a 38-55 with a .375 barrel is just a "bastardized" 375 Winchester"!

[captaint]

Pretty sure the only one I have heard any negativity about was the Uberti. Our own Buckshot told the tale IIRC. I do have a Japchester in 38-55 that cost around 900 bux, and shoots beautifully - really. If memory serves, the groove slugged out at .376. I got a mold from Veral at LBT and even though I have others, I haven't used them. Good luck !!

[Mark-II]

Really? From what I understood in my searches, the Pedersoli 38-55 1885 rifle was chambered for the longer dimension cartridge case and that groove diameters were larger than normal for 38-55 and ran around .380-.381

I bought a 94 Big Bore in .375 years ago as my poor-boys 38-55. Never shot it much and never had a mould for it until this year. I've not gotten around to loading any cast for it yet.

[Mark-II]

Pretty sure the only one I have heard any negativity about was the Uberti. Our own Buckshot told the tale IIRC. I do have a Japchester in 38-55 that cost around 900 bux, and shoots beautifully - really. If memory serves, the groove slugged out at .376. I got a mold from Veral at LBT and even though I have others, I haven't used them. Good luck !!


I've heard a few vague mutterings against Uberti as well, but nothing solid other than the finish on Pedersoli tends to be better. Well, since I'm done casting for the year now it can't hurt to try a .379 sizer and see how it shoots - it's a minimal investment. Tweak things in the spring if necessary.

[captaint]

That's what my sizer is, that I remember. So, maybe I'm nuts about the slug diameter. I'll have to measure it again when I get home. Never really heard anything bad about Pedersoli - pretty rifles. Mike

[montana_charlie]

I've heard a few vague mutterings against Uberti as well, but nothing solid other than the finish on Pedersoli tends to be better.
The Pedersoli will have a match quality barrel. Uberti doesn't have the capability to produce one.
If you want it, I have a Word document written by Dan Theodore which has a bullet designed specifically for the Pedersoli 38/55 Hiwall. PM me with your email address and I will send it.

CM

[bigted]

I agree with Montana here ... the Pedrosoli is the way to go. and as for OVERSIZE bores ... there is a reason they called it a 38-55 instead of a 35 or 36-55 ... it be a 38 ... thusely the .380 to .381 inch groove diameter.

the 38-55 is a grand choice as the recoil is less then the big bore and the cost of shooting is less as well. lead is half the cost as well as the powder ...[if blackpowder]... . they are a wonderful choice for just about all game hunted in the lower 48 but in the north country it will be a little lite. as for target use it is usually a first rate cartridge until the range gets past the 6 or 700 yards then the big bore takes over with the wind bucking capability's.

[johnson1942]

ted: is that true about big bores . i always thought that but last spring i was shooting one of my .50/s in a crosswind and that 720 grain bullet really moved side ways from the wind. i thought to my self that maybe i was really wrong here? is their a ratio of bullet size moveing sidways in a wind? i need to learn more about this. thanks

[d garfield]

Well I ave a Uberti highwall in 38-55, there is nothing wrong with them, the wood fit is purfect and it has nice wood.

It shoots ten shoots into 2.5 in at 200 yrds.

Now if you got a lot of money to spend then buy Ped.

I also have a Ped. Quigley in 45-70, the tell you how cheap they are.
You just cant bragggggg about owning a sharps
This is a beautiful rifle and anyone would be proud to own.
When I go to the range everybody comes to see them.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

As I understand it, the 38-55 never was a 375 grove but always a 380. I have an RCBS mold in .375 and bullets from it rattle down the bore in either of my 38-55s. I bought an RCBS double cavity in 300 grain and it works well in both guns. I also bought a LEE double in 250 grain that casts 383 as I recall and it is a pure pleasure to shoot. I have both a Uberti and a Pedersoli but my Peder is in 45-70. Both rifles are well finished and shoot great. I did buy my Uberti used from Jon K. so I new it was a good one before buying. I am well aware of the problems Buckshot had with his Uberti in 38-55.

[bigted]

Johnson ... yep ... it is true ... however ... ALL boolits will skid sideways in wind. no matter what size nor what speed they travel. just that the big heavy's will get buffeted less then the smaller diameter boolits in the same wind. lotza stuff figures into the formula.

somebody smarter then me will have to chime in with the amount of side flight in what kinda wind. RPM also has an effect on the side slip but again ... the info will not come from me as I just use WAG for my windy shots ... sometimes it works and sometimes not.

[13Echo]

From what I understand the action for the Pedersoli is made by Uberti but the barrel and final fitting is by Pedersoli for their rifles and the barrel for the Uberti is by Uberti. The Pedersoli barrel has a better reputation for accuracy. The Pedersoli chamber is based on the original long case (which can be had from Starline) and the bore and groove diameters are based on the original specifications. There was quite a thread on it in one of the old BPCR sites by Dick Trenk who ws the Pedersoli representative and advisor in America and is largely responsible for the Pedersoli High Wall.

Jerry Liles

[Chill Wills]

Hey 13Echo, I think you are correct on all points. If my memory (crs) has not completely failed, I think there was a Uberti/Pedersoli highwall before the one we speak of that had a different barrel twist at 1 in 20" and a much different chamber. The two rifles looked different and were distinguishable from each other.

All,
During this time, there was a clammier from the BPCR silhouette competitors for a match grade, match ready Pedersoli Silhouette rifle in 38-55 Ballard.
Dick Trink asked DanT for some help getting it right. Much angst and about a year and a half passed and Pedersoli offered a prototype with a slower twist and funky short 2.085" chamber but correct .380" barrel. Pedersoli was not going to budge on the specs. but in the end, Dick Trink convinced them to make it right. So Pedersoli changed to 12 twist and the 2.130" chamber cut tight and smart for target work. The rifle did not do well, meaning sell well in the market place despite the few tested shooting very well and getting good press. Also, they had the long Helm trigger guard/under lever with only a single trigger in it and that mis-match looked real dumb. Later the rifle was offered with a sporting lever. Anyway, I always wanted one. Didn't need another rifle but knew it would really shoot , I had a pile of long target moulds and thought it would fun to work up a load and campaign it a season or two!

So for what it is worth, As accurate 38's go, I would guess it would be a great rifle. If you can even find one it would be cool to own and shoot. It was built as a Black Powder Target rifle for silhouette of Mid-range shooting. With the twelve twist rifling and correct bullets it would not give up Anything to 40's or 45's at any range. Bc is Bc and when they are the same they are the same, regardless of caliber. If that was not true Bc would have no meaning.
-Michael Rix

[Don McDowell]

Chill , I think Cabela's in Sidney had one of those Pedersoli 38-55's in the gun library, and I might have this wrong, but I believe Randy Ellingrod was thinking to sell the one he has/had.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I own a Pedersoli Hi-wall 38/55 "Classic" Target model with 30" barrel 1:12"twist. I use Starline long brass with Swiss No2 powder and a Paul Jones 374gn Creedmore bullet modified to my specifications. It casts a perfect .380 dia bullet that is shot unsized. The starline brass when new is very undersized and fire formed brass holds an extra 3.5gn of powder with the same compression. My standard load is 50gns Swiss with .030 wad and the PJ bullet. The combination of a very heavy boolit snd fast twist creates a good deal of back pressure which i turn makes the powder charge burn very clean.

Yes, I would buy another, and another . . . . . . :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture028.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Picture028.jpg.html)

[Chill Wills]

Hi Don, As much as I would like to have one now (Pedersoli 38-55), it will wait. I am on a rifle buying diet having just bought and moved to a new house....ouch!
Plus + now that I have a much larger shop and got my lathe and mill out of moth balls, I have a few projects one of which includes the GM 12 twist 38 barrel blank DanT scoped for me a few years back to be mated to a fine old 3-diget Rem Hepburn action. That will scratch my 38-55 itch for a while.
You going to the Longrange match at Byers Sunday? See you there? Watkins-Silhouette match Saturday & Byers LR match Sunday. The last big BPCR weekend.

BAW, Your rifle and loads as described make perfect sense to me. I bet it shoots well, just as you say.
Gotta go finish loading for this weekends longrange match. -Michael Rix

[montana_charlie]

From what I understand the action for the Pedersoli is made by Uberti but the barrel and final fitting is by Pedersoli for their rifles and the barrel for the Uberti is by Uberti.
Uberti and Pedersoli had an agreement that Uberti would not build Sharps rifles, and Pedersoli would stay away from Hiwalls.
Well, Uberti wanted in on the Sharps craze, so they made a new agreement with Pedersoli.

Pedersoli builds Sharps rifles in configurations specified by Uberti, and Uberti sells them under their own brand.
In exchange, Pedersoli is 'allowed' into the Hiwall market.

Pedersoli buys the blank Hiwall receivers from Uberti, heat treats them to their own specs, then machines and fills them with internals designed and produced by Pedersoli. The rifles are totally built in the Pedersoli plant, which means they get a Pedersoli barrel.

Uberti Hiwalls are produced completely by Uberti.

CM

[Don McDowell]

Mike I was planning on going to Byers Sunday, but this weather up here has been the pits. We had 4 inches of snow day before yesterday, the rain the last two nights. It feels like it could start snowing any time , and they are forecasting another 4 day storm to blow in sometime sunday. I think I'ld best stay close to home to feed the cows. Been corresponding with Eron about a rebarrel on my 75, so was really looking forward to some visit time with him,, guess we'll wait til spring time now.
I believe Carol is going to come with me to one of the Byers monthly matches to try it out, and if she shoots as well there as she does here at home , I think we'll have another womens competitor....

And back to the regularly scheduled topic
I had a Uberti 38-55 with the set triggers. The thing had not a particularly good bore , it would lead like crazy, and the chamber was big enough it was no big deal to paper patch the Lyman 38 snover as cast , chamber and shoot it...
If a person was going to go with the imported 38-55 the Pedersoli is the way to go with it's match designed chamber and faster twist to accommodate the heavier bullets that work so very well shooting long range.
But I would also suggest at the price of the pedersoli, it might not hurt to look at a C Sharps 1885...

[rbertalotto]

I was recently informed that Pedersoli is supplying barrels to Uberti.................I have a Uberti and the rifling looks like cut-rifle with a bore scope. Just like the two Pedersoli rifles I have.

My Uberti 38-55 is a serious tack driver and I use a .378 /255g / 20-1 Alloy bullet over Unique or Black Powder.

[Chill Wills]

I was recently informed that Pedersoli is supplying barrels to Uberti.................I have a Uberti and the rifling looks like cut-rifle with a bore scope. Just like the two Pedersoli rifles I have.

My Uberti 38-55 is a serious tack driver and I use a .378 /255g / 20-1 Alloy bullet over Unique or Black Powder.

That is good to hear. I want one of everything and the Uberti like you have would be fun too! Do you know the twist in it? Have you checked it?

On a general note, I read the comment again and again that when someone at the range is shooting a repo BPCR at their home range, everyone comes over to admire it. That never when I am shooting test loads. Colorado's western slope or the front range area, zero! If it ain't black and have 26 things and gadgets hanging off it, they don't even give it a thought.
Michael Rix

[Chill Wills]

Don, sorry we won't see you there. Shirt-sleve weather here today and more on the way if the Weather Lady is correct. I well understand you needing to take care of business! Next time.....
I hope Carol does start shooting with us, well, unless she beats us good.:p
Michael Rix

[Don McDowell]

Got all the way up to 45 here this afternoon, humidity was high and the wind was frolicking around between 10 and 30 mph...
Mike we'll look forward to seeing you come green up. We may twist off and make a two dayer out of your tin can shoot and Erons paper match.
When Carol gets in the groove with that dang Winchester she's one tuff cookie to out shoot. I think she'll come out gun a blazin after the cataract surgery.

[Mark-II]

So in the end Uberti or Pedersoli, in a new made rifle, should be of comparable quality for a casual non-competitive shooter. My father has gotten a bit of the single-shot bug and is contemplating a low wall rifle as well, and Uberti (or Winchester if you can find it), are the only real choices for his price range.

Me, I'd like something a bit more modern, like a 30-40 Krag, which Uberti makes in a high wall, or a 6.5x55 in the Winchester low wall.

I've got a Pedersoli Sharps business rifle that I bought second hand a dozen years ago. I don't shoot it nearly enough, and I've recently been bit by the milsurp bug and have been going after Mosin Nagants of all sorts. When he gets his 38-55 I'll have to dust off my 45-70. I think I've still got some black powder loads for it too, from a decade ago. :)