.69 RB load ........

[HiVelocity]

I'm trying my hand at loading .69 round balls in 2 3/4" 12ga shotshells. I don't have a chronograph, so if someone wants to try running the numbers for me, I'd appreciate it.

Remington high brass (green) Express shell, Federal (FS3?) wad with one 1/8" 16ga cardboard wad under the Round Ball, over 39.4gr of Blue Dot.

Even though the Lee RB states .69 caliber (741gr with ACWW), it mik's at .685; my Mossberg barrel ID is .715; in theory, it should work. If someone has a better combination, please let me know. I'm shooting this through my Mossberg 500, 20" IC barrel.

Thanks,

HV

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello HiVelocity, first you need to do a back ward push through test:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Wadslugfitinbarrelcopy.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/Wadslugfitinbarrelcopy.jpg.html)
Here are the measurements:
http://i1317.photobucket.com/albums/t629/BlazingSabots/12gaRoundBallinwadfit_zps3fb02980.jpg (http://s1317.photobucket.com/user/BlazingSabots/media/12gaRoundBallinwadfit_zps3fb02980.jpg.html)
that is with different wads and .678 RB measurements as well and you will soon find out that the .678" RB is a better choice but costs 5 times more than a Lee .690" mold at $18+ change!

" A happy man is one who loads his own slugs and burn's powder at the range" - Super Blazing Sabots!

"Be the change that you wish to see in the world."
- Mahatma Gandhi

"An inventor fails 999 times, and if he succeeds once, he's in.
He treats his failures simply as practice shots. ~ Charles F. Kettering

Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
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We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
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-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.

[HiVelocity]

Push thru test, will do. I've seen so many variables, but I'm open to try em' all.

HV

[stripercrazy]

At the range to day I shot .690 lee round balls in a light bush wad, I used 18grs of red dot in Winchester AA wads 2 3/4 inch, Winchester primers. I didn't really get them to group too well at 50 yards. I was shooting a 1100 rem smoothbore and a Mossberg 500 smoothbore...I wonder what to do next logically I'm thinking drop the charge to 17gr see what that does....ed

[Bullshop Junior]

At the range to day I shot .690 lee round balls in a light bush wad, I used 18grs of red dot in Winchester AA wads 2 3/4 inch, Winchester primers. I didn't really get them to group too well at 50 yards. I was shooting a 1100 rem smoothbore and a Mossberg 500 smoothbore...I wonder what to do next logically I'm thinking drop the charge to 17gr see what that does....ed

That sounds like kind of a light charge of powder.....might need to change powder, but in my experiance the harder it kicked the better it shot. And that goes for most of my 12ga stuff.

[longbow]

As long as you can keep the ball centered in the bore somehow they should shoot fine. So far I have not figured out how to do that though!

I have had excellent results with smaller balls in shotcups and full bore naked balls but the 'ol 0.690" has not done well for me. It is too small naked and too large for most shotcups I have been able to try. I did have one type that had thin petals that gave a pretty good fit to bore but even them accuracy was poor due to sheared petals.

One piece of advice I can offer that should help is that for round balls, I find that they work best for me either over a hard card wad column or if in a shotcup, at least one 1/8" nitro card wad under them along with a small scoop of COW. Soft wad columns or cushion legs try to wrap themselves around the ball so distort badly and often shotcups actually crack or tear in the bottom. Depending on cushion leg, sometimes even the gas seal fails due to the distortion.

Several people have had good results using the BPI brush wads which are basically a double cupped gas seal with a cushion leg between. I see stripercrazy did not have such success. Not sure if the brush wad is susceptible to that distortion of not. I have not tried them but one day will order a bag. For now I like 0.662" or 0.678" RB's in shotcups. I failed with 0.690" RB's!

Donut wads over a hard card wad column should also work to keep a 0.690" ball centered. I used to see commercial donut wads available in a hard felt bit do not see them anymore. They should be reasonably easy to make though.

FWIW

Longbow

[Bullshop Junior]

What about paper patching them up just a little in a naked shell like you would in a muzzle loader?

[longbow]

Hmmm, I did make up paper tubes once and tried that. So ball into tube then fold the bottom over but they tended to roll around a bit at seating so the opening wasn't necessarily straight in line with the bore. They did not work well for me.

What you might try is cloth patching the ball into the hull. I would not have thought it would work but several people have posted about success doing just that. Much like patching for a muzzleloader except no short starter and not as tight a fit.

I would have figured the patch would not stay with the ball opening a crimp or making the jump through the forcing cone but I have read posts about success doing that.

Since I have lots of different size ball moulds I use what fits into a shotcup or full bore but I should try patching the 0.690" just to see what happens. If it works it is a pretty simple solution.

Since I already have a Lyman mould no big deal but for someone just getting started or wanting to experiment, the Lee moulds are inexpensive and they make a 0.690" ball mould.

I have spent a pile of money on ball moulds and have 0.662", 0.678", 0.690". 0.715" and 0.735". I use the first two and the last one with good results.

Longbow

[stripercrazy]

shot them again today, same thing they didn't group well ....got to pour more and keep trying

[TRG3]

Here's what works for me, giving around 1" three-shot groups off the bench at 50 yards. Of course, YMMV:
12 gauge 2 3/4" new Fiocchi primed hull with 27.0 grains of Herco (mild recoil in my H&R USH) followed by a thin overshot card to keep the powder in place. A Federal S3 wad with a 20 gauge is then inserted in the hull with a 20 gauge .125 hard card on which the pure lead .690 roundball rests. Previous to loading, I've rolled the roundball between two metal plates to reduce the sprue and then mark such with a black dot in order to load it in the "up" position. With a Lee Load-All, I put some seating pressure on the roundball before roll crimping. While I've not shot this load for accuracy beyond 50 yards, it has accounted for three deer and shot through a mature doe lengthwise.

[longbow]

TRG3:

You are shooting rifled barrel and the OP is shooting cylinder bore barrel and a tight one at that I notice if it is 0.715" bore... or is that the I/C choke? Probably.

Didn't you say your groove diameter was over 0.730", like 0.734" or something. I seem to recall it being large anyway. Of course my memory isn't what it used to be either. What was I saying?

I will have to see if I can order some of those Federal S3 wads to try out. Also some of the BPI brush wads (smoothbore don't you know ~ yes, I am stubborn). Others have posted good reviews of Federal wads.

Stripercrazy:

Maybe try a scoop of COW under the ball.

What do your recovered wads look like? If they are cracked or torn they may be wrapping around the ball due to the pressure. I have not tried those so don't know how they perform but regular wads can and do wrap around the ball often failing in the cup or even the gas seal because it hits a distorted cushion leg above under compression.

Recovered wads can tell a tale.

Longbow

[stripercrazy]

I'll try to find the wads next time...i'll post a photo. thanks for the help and all the info you've posted its helped me a lot....ed

[longbow]

I should add that normally I use at least one nitro card wad under the slug and usually two and those are to provide a solid base under the slug and to prevent the wad from wrapping around the ball. The scoop of COW also seems to help, I think because it makes a nice cup under the ball.

With those brush wads, using nitro card wads would defeat the purpose of setting a ball into the cup. You want the cup there to center the ball in the bore. But, if the wads are failing then something has to change.

I have never used Red Dot under a slug or ball either so no experience there but it is a pretty fast powder so might be causing excessive crushing of the wad ~ simply speculation on my part. Recovered wads are what you want as they will tell you what is happening.

Longbow

[CANUCK]

Hey guys,
I use the .690" RB in a .730" smooth bore slug gun. I tried many different wads with the ball in the shotcup but it was just too tight a fit for me to even try.The Trap Commander wad gave me the idea to use inverted gas seals to cup and centre the ball in the bore.
My load:
-Remington Express 12 Ga. 2 3/4" hull
-Win 209 primer
-30.0 grains SR4756
-WAA12R with petals removed
-.125" N/C plus 1/2 of another one
-Gas seal only from a WAA12F114 wad removed and inverted and used as a cup for the ball
-about 40Lbs. wad pressure
-.690" RB cast from Lee mould
-Fold crimp

Recoil is medium and the balls penetrated about 4" into dry/tough spruce.
Not a great group but the best I can get with the .690" RB.

This is what the wad column looks like:
88733

The crimps:
88736

The 40 yard group:
88735

Recovered wads and RB's:
88734

[longbow]

Yeah, tight fit! Me too. I found one wad that the 0.690" ball fit not badly but even then petals sheared. I read that some of the Federal wads have thin tough petals and BPI lists a wad for 0.690" balls so it must also have thin petals.

I gave up on 0.690" balls and use the 0.662" or 0.678" in shotcups. Groups generally run 3" to 4" at 50 yards ~ way better accuracy than I ever got with 0.690" balls... or most slugs for that matter.

You might try donut wads. Used to be able to buy them but I don't see them anymore. You can make them by stacking 1/8" nitro card wads in a tube/pipe jig and drilling them. That may center the ball better than the inverted cup if the fit to ball isn't close.

tommygirl posted her jig design so a search should turn it up.

Longbow

[CANUCK]

I tried genuine 12C1,12S3 & 12S4 Federal wads and all were too tight in my gun.
The inverted gas seal doesn't fit the .690" RB all that great but I assumed upon firing that it would quickly form to fit around the ball.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Canuck, have you tried Win AA12F114 wads, the petals are known to be thin, guess what, I can't lay my hand on any WAA12R original wads and will gladly trade some just to check for size, fit etc, say 25 or 50 pcs if you or some one else is willing to help.

I need to do some tests so I can further develop some test results and offer my findings back to my Elite Musketeer Brotherhood family.

Feel free to read my post on faster buck shot loads here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...uck+shot+loads
&
VdoMemories Blazing Buck & Ball or Buck & Slugs post here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...zing+buck+ball.

Another watch out, good to know the Symptoms as we are all getting old:
http://xfinity.comcast.net/slideshow...cid=hero_media

Eat healthy:
http://www.health.com/health/gallery...8381_2,00.html


Passing the torch of knowledge is something done out of genetic responsibility!

Hoping it helps.
Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
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http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.

[longbow]

Ajay:

I would steer you away from the WAA12R wads. I have a few left but really have no used for them. They are thick and soft. I have not had success with them at all for balls or slugs. Generally petals shear or distort badly.

CANUCK:

My guess is that your guess is right... the cup probably does form fit to the ball but if fit isn't good to begin with the "form fit" is probably different each time. I have always had better results with a solid base under the ball.

FWIW

Longbow

[stripercrazy]

I was loading some lightfield slugs and I weighted the Lt bush wad and .690... it weighted 505gr....the slugs weighted 475gr I can use 24-27 gr greendot.....I kept it on the low end because of the 30gr extra I loaded 24gr greendot a .125 nitro hardcard over the powder the bush wad and ball and I rolledcrimped it...I put the nitrocard in to raise it for the rollcrimp88821

[stripercrazy]

88849 when I get back from hunting i'll try this and see how it feels

[CANUCK]

Hello Canuck, have you tried Win AA12F114 wads, the petals are known to be thin, guess what, I can't lay my hand on any WAA12R original wads and will gladly trade some just to check for size, fit etc, say 25 or 50 pcs if you or some one else is willing to help.

Mr. Ajay,
I would be happy to send you some wads but Canada Post won't allow reloading components to be mailed out of Canada.:(

Wads I have in my stash and are all too tight a fit in my gun:
Win WAA12L
Win WAA12SL
Win WAA12
Win WAA12F114
Win WAA12R
Fed 12C1
Fed 12S3
Fed 12S4
Rem RXP12
Rem SP12
Activ T-35
Activ TG-30
Claybuster CB6100-12

One wad that I had to throw out the whole bag as they turned brittle and crumbled were Jaxco Windjammer. From what little testing I could do with them they seemed to have the thinnest petals of all my wads but they were too brittle to make a conclusive test.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning LongBow, thanks for the input, lets see if someone here in US will be generous enough to send me at least 25 pcs and I can in exchange send what other wads I have.

stripercrazy, your roll crimp looks very good, nice and deep for proper cumbustion, Bravo Brother and best of luck with a 12 pointer ! ! !

CANUCK, I like the way you assembled them and your pictures tell a good story, are those RB's cast of pure lead or WW water quenched?

Thank you all for sharing your pure Gold information, love it!

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/NewAHappyThanksgivingcopy.jpg (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/Dantebeowulf/media/NewAHappyThanksgivingcopy.jpg.html)

Feel free to read my post on faster buck shot loads here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...uck+shot+loads
&
VdoMemories Blazing Buck & Ball or Buck & Slugs post here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...zing+buck+ball.

Another watch out, good to know the Symptoms as we are all getting old:
http://xfinity.comcast.net/slideshow...cid=hero_media

Eat healthy:
http://www.health.com/health/gallery...8381_2,00.html


Passing the torch of knowledge is something done out of genetic responsibility!

Hoping it helps.
Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr[/url] ... ot!/page1
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.

[CANUCK]

CANUCK, I like the way you assembled them and your pictures tell a good story, are those RB's cast of pure lead or WW water quenched?

Thank you all for sharing your pure Gold information, love it!


Mr. Ajay,
Just scrap lead I had laying around and not water quenched so I would assume close to pure lead.

[Green Lizzard]

i cast up a cigar box full using some zinked alloy i had laying around (saving the good stuff) the only success i had was using a patch cut from old blue jeans lubed like the bp guys do on a hard card and old alcan blue streak felt wads. they seem to make the jump from case mouth to forcing cone just fine. accuracy was from 3 to 5 in at 50 yds open bore. testing is still going on i also tried the doughnut wads cut from styrofoam (pain to make)

[bikerbeans]

Ajay,

I have some of the WAA12R wads, maybe 2 or 3 dozen. At least I think they are what you want, they were given to me and WAA12R is written on the bag. PM me your address and I will mail them to you when I get back from my hunting trip.

BB

[longbow]

CANUCK:

Since when has Canada Post stopped shipping reloading components (not including primers and powder)?

I have sent boolits, slugs, boolit moulds and other things to people in the States and they were labeled as such. No problems ever encountered.

It is however illegal for Americans to export almost all shooting related items including cast boolits and empty brass unless they have an FFL.

Looks like you have a source of Win AA Red wads there Ajay. I could mail you some of mine if you want too.

Longbow

[CANUCK]

CANUCK:

Since when has Canada Post stopped shipping reloading components (not including primers and powder)?

I have sent boolits, slugs, boolit moulds and other things to people in the States and they were labeled as such. No problems ever encountered.

Longbow

Longbow,
My bad, since reloading components are allowed to be shipped from USA to Canada I assumed we couldn't send components to the USA.

[Hogtamer]

Aj, those wads were the perfect fit for my for my 7/8 lee loads w/2 20 ga nitros. But they are soft and fragile and i've never been able to get them out of the barrel intact. Didn't seem to effect accuracy though. I'll be glad to hear how they compare to the trap commanders you like. How about measuring them and posting the comparisons so i'll know if that's what to order for my 2 3/4" loads. Thanks, Hal

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings, I'm rich for I have good friends here, yes I'll do all the necessary measurement tests and report back, that was the main purpose behind that, my Brother BikerBeans has generously agreed to help me out, Ill report back!

Thank you all.

Feel free to read my post on faster buck shot loads here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...uck+shot+loads
&
VdoMemories Blazing Buck & Ball or Buck & Slugs post here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...zing+buck+ball

Be on the look out for more pure Gold!

Passing the torch of knowledge is something done out of genetic responsibility!

Hoping it helps.
Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr[/url] ... ot!/page1
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK

[FullTang]

I've had a lot of fun with 0.69 round balls cast from a Lee mold, but I've never found a wad that worked perfectly. Instead, I do one of 2 things: either load them quickly with a Light Brush Wad (BPI's LB12 from Gualandi) or pack them in with a Flex Seal 12 and a 1/2" fiber cushion wad. These can be topped with an overshot card and crimped, though lately I prefer a roll crimp. Neither one is especially accurate in a smoothebore, but the fiber-wad load seems to nest nicely in my Tracker II, and shoots very nice groups at 50, 75, and 100 yards. I didn't expect this, but the ball does seem to engage the rifling at relatively low velocities, and it shoots surprisingly well!

[bikerbeans]

Good thread, now I don't feel so bad about my rotten 100 yard group, shot with a 18.5" H&R Tracker II rifled barrel slug gun.

BB

[swheeler]

I'm trying my hand at loading .69 round balls in 2 3/4" 12ga shotshells. I don't have a chronograph, so if someone wants to try running the numbers for me, I'd appreciate it.

Remington high brass (green) Express shell, Federal (FS3?) wad with one 1/8" 16ga cardboard wad under the Round Ball, over 39.4gr of Blue Dot.

Even though the Lee RB states .69 caliber (741gr with ACWW), it mik's at .685; my Mossberg barrel ID is .715; in theory, it should work. If someone has a better combination, please let me know. I'm shooting this through my Mossberg 500, 20" IC barrel.

Thanks,

HV

Something amiss there, by about 250 grains??

[bikerbeans]

My .69 cal lee RB mold throws about 470g with WW lead. I think Hivelocity may have transposed two digits while typing.

BB

[Buckshot Bill]

I have had fairly good luck with .690 (WW alloy drops .689 in my mold, 477 grains 1.09 oz) in a WT-12 wad. That puts an overall diameter of around .734 in my experience which is .009 larger than my .725 bore but I have recovered very few wads with sheared petals. I get more petal shearing in fully rifled bores 95% or more. Accuracy goes out the window past about 1375 fps with my loads though. keep them around 1350 and I can hold them in a 2-3" group @ 25 yards with very large open sights which is all I expect from a combo like this.

[littlejack]

Hey Buckshot, welcome to the CastBoolits.
Jack

[Buckshot Bill]

thanks, read a lot post a little.

[longbow]

So far my experience s with 0.690" RB are poor.

I have only found one or two wads that have thin enough petals to use them and even then I get serious petal shearing and poor accuracy.

My good round ball loads using 0.662" patched RB's in shotcups, 0.678" naked RB's in shotcups or 0.735" RB's naked over hard card wad columns produce 3" to 4" groups at 50 yards. All through smoothbore.

0.735" RB's through rifled barrel gave 2" +/- groups at 50 yards.

Personally I will take balls that fit properly in shotcups or full bore balls over 0.690".

Different strokes.

Longbow