Tested: Lee Imp Minnie 350 gr vs. "No Excuses" 460 gr in soaked phonebooks

[blackthunder]

No accuracy testing here just what they do in soaked phonebooks (may react totally different in game).

Lee Imp Minnie 350 gr (made from 100% stick on WW + 3% tin)
loaded with 80 gr Pyrodex in H&R sidekick 1 in 24 twist
50 yards
20 inches penetration
expanded to .60

"No Excuses" 460 gr purchased online
loaded with 80 gr Pyrodex in H&R sidekick 1 in 24 twist
50 yards
13 inches penetration
expanded to .80

I am now looking for a mould that closer resembles the "no excuses" bullet needless to say. Anyone have a source?

[dondiego]

Not sure why it is "needless to say". The LEE didn't expand as much but it did penetrate further. Really, the one you need to pick is the accurate one. They will both kill T. Rex!

[fouronesix]

1st, completely saturated phone books is a very good, consistent "maximum resistance" ballistic media.

2nd, "before" pics of bullets tested would help.

What you are calling the Lee Improved Minié looks more like a Lee Modern Minié- two different critters (unless I'm missing something). The Modern is more or less a tumble lube wadcutter and the Improved is more or less a traditional design with a fatter than traditional nose.

I've no idea what a "No Excuses" 460 is ?? Also, for game, accuracy trumps expansion in these larger calibers.

Also, what's the hardness of the two types tested? If one is near pure lead and the other is some alloy of an unknown hardness then the comparison doesn't mean much. For valid comparative testing only one variable should be changed.

[blackthunder]

Sorry fouonesix,
I didn't point it out but the before pics are the middle bullets in the first picture, then the two outermost bullets are fired and recovered showing different angles.

Here is the hollow base Lee bullet: http://leeprecision.com/mold-500-354-m.html

Here is the "no excuses" bullet: http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/index_files/Page319.htm
on their website they say the bullets are made from pure lead.... but who knows I didn't hardness test mine or theirs...

This was just a fun comparison of what I had available and wanted to share...

[mooman76]

The first one that looks like a TLWC minie they used to call it a Target minie.

[Rattus58]

No accuracy testing here just what they do in soaked phonebooks (may react totally different in game).

Lee Imp Minnie 350 gr (made from 100% stick on WW + 3% tin)
loaded with 80 gr Pyrodex in H&R sidekick 1 in 24 twist
50 yards
20 inches penetration
expanded to .60

"No Excuses" 460 gr purchased online
loaded with 80 gr Pyrodex in H&R sidekick 1 in 24 twist
50 yards
13 inches penetration
expanded to .80

I am now looking for a mould that closer resembles the "no excuses" bullet needless to say. Anyone have a source?This might be an indictment more of the construction of the minie. I use the Lee Minie for hunting with low powder charges and they are are awesome killers and and the 58 version I stopped using and went back to the roundball but that minie we had thickened the base to roughly .060 and when it hit with its over 1/2" meplate doing about 1100 fps, I had one deer actually knocked off of its feet. Does 3% tin harden the bullet any?

As to the 460 Rapine makes a grand bullet that will easily do the 460 for the Knight/White and also .500 bores. You could also design a bullet to meet the 460's criteria on several of the mould makers sites, accurate being one.

Aloha.. :cool:

[bubba.50]

that 3% tin is likely the reason the lee's didn't expand any more than they did.

[Junior1942]

that 3% tin is likely the reason the lee's didn't expand any more than they did.Agree.

A left-to-right description of the bullets in the top picture would really be nice.....

[Squeeze]

I am now looking for a mould that closer resembles the "no excuses" bullet needless to say. Anyone have a source?
http://moosemoulds.wix.com/mm2013
try these guys, if you dont see what you want in their lineup, they were happy to make me a custom set of molds, and I had them in hand long before the backorder set from pedersoli I ordered at about the same time. (and both about the same price, this was for a .315 roundball, both 2 hole moulds)

[jmort]

After seeing the performance of the Lee Precision TL Modern Minie, why not roll with that? That is some impressive performance. I guess you-all like some energy dump. Me, I'll take two .50"/.60" holes, one in and one out.

[Rattus58]

After seeing the performance of the Lee Precision TL Modern Minie, why not roll with that? That is some impressive performance. I guess you-all like some energy dump. Me, I'll take two .50"/.60" holes, one in and one out.Energy dump does nothing except admit failure to complete. An expanding bullet going through the animal completes the mission

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Anytime you shoot through one of a critter's vital areas with a size appropriate cast bullet the animal will expire promptly. Slugs of .45, .50, ,54, .58, etc. are all the same. Might as well be a short length of rebar, expansion doesn't much change things. Nor does powder charge, given enough energy supplied to completely penetrate, i.e., 40 GR FFFg will completely penetrate a heart/lung area on a deer @40 yards or more and exit, driving a 50 or a 58 minie'. Just my experience.

BvT

[10 ga]

.45 or larger caliber, expansion not needed, length of wound channed better, considering sufficient meplat. Does not seem to be a problem here for either bullet. Go for most accurate. 10 ga

[Good Cheer]

I'd go with which one shot the most accurately in my piece. Both are good for the 40,000BC hunting season.

[jbelder]

N
Anytime you shoot through one of a critter's vital areas with a size appropriate cast bullet the animal will expire promptly. Slugs of .45, .50, ,54, .58, etc. are all the same. Might as well be a short length of rebar, expansion doesn't much change things. Nor does powder charge, given enough energy supplied to completely penetrate, i.e., 40 GR FFFg will completely penetrate a heart/lung area on a deer @40 yards or more and exit, driving a 50 or a 58 minie'. Just my experience.

BvT

I would have to disagree expansion is the key. Because that's where all the energy comes from that creates the wound channel. That is what I have experienced muzzleloader hunting every season for the last decade. I shoot a 432gr hollow point behind 110grs of ffg of swiss black powder. It knocks them down. That's on elk in Colorado by the way! Just my 2 cents!
That's from a knight mk 85 54 cal from my lyman #548657 mould.

[dondiego]

You ...."disagree expansion is the key." ???????

[bigted]

pure lead for cast boolits or balls has been key for decades ... century's? ... dead soft lead = dead animules!