Which 45-70

[Ninety Caliber]

Uberti high wall NiB 735.00 or Winchester high wall NiB 1000.?
Is there $300 difference in quality?
What say ye experts? This will be my FIRST single shot rifle.

[NSB]

I believe there is a difference in quality. Is it a $300 difference? I don't know. I do know that if I need anything done to my Winchester, I can contact the company that sells them (I know, they're made by Miruko in Japan) that they will take care of me. They have an 800 number, they answer the phone, and I've dealt with them for many, many years with great success. My experience with Italian gun makers has been less than stellar. If you get a good one, great. If you have a problem, you really have a problem unless the seller stands behind the product. The factory doesn't want to know anything, or simply directs you to their obscure North American repair center. My Winchester 1885 is flawless. It shoots MOA groups with a number of loads and has never caused me a minutes trouble. I have no regrets about buying it. FWIW, if you can get a NIB for $1000, you got a really good deal. I haven't seen one for that price for quite a while now.

[bigted]

the Uberti will be constructed nearer to the original production Hi wall's. the Winchester will only resemble the outside contours of the original.

the Uberti will be mainly simple to dis-assemble/assemble while the Winchester ...[while I find it fairly easy]... will be far more complicated to dis-assemble/assemble.

the Winchester is a very nicely finished rifle complete with fancy wood and finish as well as excellent blue while the Uberti is going to be less fit n finish but more utilitarian rather then the glitzy good looks of the Winchester.

the Winchester CAN be a pure b***h to get to shoot cast ...[but not impossible to get great groups with work]... the Winchester will do GREAT with jacketed while ... I cant tell on the Uberti accuracy wise as I don't have one.

personally ... I would go a different direction but that is not the answer to the question. preference is the name of the game here and im bettin you would be happy with either rifle. just gotta know what you expect outta your choice first.

[Ninety Caliber]

Well it needs to be a cast Boolits shooter

[1Shirt]

I am very bias, but think you ought to look at a Ruger #1!
1Shirt!

[Ninety Caliber]

the Uberti will be constructed nearer to the original production Hi wall's. the Winchester will only resemble the outside contours of the original.

the Uberti will be mainly simple to dis-assemble/assemble while the Winchester ...[while I find it fairly easy]... will be far more complicated to dis-assemble/assemble.

the Winchester is a very nicely finished rifle complete with fancy wood and finish as well as excellent blue while the Uberti is going to be less fit n finish but more utilitarian rather then the glitzy good looks of the Winchester.

the Winchester CAN be a pure b***h to get to shoot cast ...[but not impossible to get great groups with work]... the Winchester will do GREAT with jacketed while ... I cant tell on the Uberti accuracy wise as I don't have one.

personally ... I would go a different direction but that is not the answer to the question. preference is the name of the game here and im bettin you would be happy with either rifle. just gotta know what you expect outta your choice first.


Well bigted,
What direction would YOU go in? Since I've never owned a single shot I'm open to suggestion. My price limit is $1000. That said, less is always good lol.

[Don McDowell]

This past sunday we were shooting on our 1000 yd target , and the wife was laying bullets from her Winchester bpcr 1885 about 6 inches apart.. Sure going to be interesting to see what she can do with the thing after she has the cataract surgery next month...

[XTR]

If you get one of the Winchester BPCRs I hear they will shoot cast, and very well in fact; however, the rest of the line are something different. I have one of the other Win-Mir 45-70s, I have never gotten it to shoot cast for squat.

[John Allen]

For $1000.00 I would look at the ruger they are robust and shoot well with cast.

[prsman23]

If you have patience and get lucky you can pick up a nice used rifle as well. I got a Shiloh saddle carbine that looked unused for 1200. There has to be other deals to be had as well.

[littlejack]

Ninety Caliber:
I have the Uberti 1885 in 45-70. It shoots great for me. There has been some folks that have had trouble with the Uberti. I have a target that has 5 shots that can be covered with a quarter. It was shot at 100 yards with a cheap set of David Petersoli sights.
The rifle looks very nice and the fit and finish is good. It gets many compliments at the range. I cannot comment about the other rifles, as I have not shot or owned any. As for my rifle, I would not hesitate to buy another one. All the best in your search.
Regards
Jack

[bigted]

Well bigted,
What direction would YOU go in? Since I've never owned a single shot I'm open to suggestion. My price limit is $1000. That said, less is always good lol.

if hunting is on the agenda then personally I would do the Ruger #1 rifle. they are very nice to carry and extreme "pointability" they are heck for strong and will handle everything your shoulder will.

if nostalgia is in the mix ... and some hunting and some target and some rock busting ... then I would tip toward one of the Hiwalls or if the general style appeals to you then I would include a saddle style sharps re-make.

if the targets will get most of your attention then the heavy barrel Winchester or Browning Hiwall BPCR is probably the cheapest full deal meal so to speak. having said this I would heartily recommend ...[if sharps are even on the docket]... a used C-Sharps or Shiloh and if a deal cant be found to include your pocketbook then I would say Pedrosoli or Uberti model '74' sharps remakes can be had used for a pretty good price.

as to your question for me ... if I could have only 1 singleshot in my closet and it would have to fill all the above choices all wrapped up in 1 rifle then by far and away my first choice would most certainly be the Sharps model '74 in a regular weight barrel of 26 or 28 inch long and it would be chambered in 45-70 for sure. then I could have it all ... huntability ... target style with copious nostalgia ready built in ... and the often ignored firelight fondleability when the fondling by the fireside in camp give the feeling that the "just rite rifle" is laying in my lap. then there is the ease of disassembly ... 1 pin and it is parade rest to clean or inspect ... easy choice for me and the bit over budget price will be off set for the rest of my life in enjoyment and entertainment as well as the sight of it standing in the corner waiting for its next outing.

if I could not get nor want a Sharps then by all means I would not hesitate on yankin the trigger on getting the Winchester Miruko rifle as long as it be a "Traditional Hunter model of their 1885. they are well made and even tho they are unlike the original article ... they are very nicely fitted as well as coming with both hunting style sights ... the barrel mounted buckhorn and the wrist mounted Lyman style Marples peep sight. also is the ease of mounting a modern style scope if wanted. ... this is a good choice for my money. unless of course ... the Sharps could ... in any way be on the table then this would for sure be the direction I would not only lean toward but LEAP on.

YOU ASKED... [smilie=f:

[Ninety Caliber]

if hunting is on the agenda then personally I would do the Ruger #1 rifle. they are very nice to carry and extreme "pointability" they are heck for strong and will handle everything your shoulder will.

if nostalgia is in the mix ... and some hunting and some target and some rock busting ... then I would tip toward one of the Hiwalls or if the general style appeals to you then I would include a saddle style sharps re-make.

if the targets will get most of your attention then the heavy barrel Winchester or Browning Hiwall BPCR is probably the cheapest full deal meal so to speak. having said this I would heartily recommend ...[if sharps are even on the docket]... a used C-Sharps or Shiloh and if a deal cant be found to include your pocketbook then I would say Pedrosoli or Uberti model '74' sharps remakes can be had used for a pretty good price.

as to your question for me ... if I could have only 1 singleshot in my closet and it would have to fill all the above choices all wrapped up in 1 rifle then by far and away my first choice would most certainly be the Sharps model '74 in a regular weight barrel of 26 or 28 inch long and it would be chambered in 45-70 for sure. then I could have it all ... huntability ... target style with copious nostalgia ready built in ... and the often ignored firelight fondleability when the fondling by the fireside in camp give the feeling that the "just rite rifle" is laying in my lap. then there is the ease of disassembly ... 1 pin and it is parade rest to clean or inspect ... easy choice for me and the bit over budget price will be off set for the rest of my life in enjoyment and entertainment as well as the sight of it standing in the corner waiting for its next outing.

if I could not get nor want a Sharps then by all means I would not hesitate on yankin the trigger on getting the Winchester Miruko rifle as long as it be a "Traditional Hunter model of their 1885. they are well made and even tho they are unlike the original article ... they are very nicely fitted as well as coming with both hunting style sights ... the barrel mounted buckhorn and the wrist mounted Lyman style Marples peep sight. also is the ease of mounting a modern style scope if wanted. ... this is a good choice for my money. unless of course ... the Sharps could ... in any way be on the table then this would for sure be the direction I would not only lean toward but LEAP on.

YOU ASKED... [smilie=f:

There's a Tri-star sharps I can get for 700. Know anything about them?

[Dan Cash]

There's a Tri-star sharps I can get for 700. Know anything about them?
Never heard of them, Run Away.

[Don McDowell]

Dan said it real well on that tristar..
I've seen a couple of those traditional Winchester/Miroku 85's in 45-70 that have shot quite well in "buffalo gong" matches , so they can be made to shoot. Providing a person understands a bit of the basics of making cast bullets shoot well in these big bore rifles.
The Uberti's can do pretty well if you get a good one, others get rebarreled or sold before to long.

[XTR]

My Winchester I think is called a Traditional Sporter. It's got a lot of things I was looking for in a hunting rifle, a 24" barrel, and a shotgun butt with a recoil pad, and the ability to mount a scope (it wears a Swaro Z3).

Understand that shooting cast bullets in a big bore means MVs not much above 1200 to 1300 fps. Shoot them any faster and you'll find that they will barely stay on an 81/2x11 sheet of paper at 100 yards.

[Gunlaker]

I would go for a Browning/Winchester BPCR over an Uberti any day. I have not owned an Uberti but have friend who does and he's having a heck of a time getting good accuracy out of it. I have a couple of the BPCR rifles and they are well built with quality barrels. The sights they come with are not bad either, although I prefer MVA.

Chris.

[Doc Highwall]

I have both the Traditional Hunter and the BPCR and both have something over each other. For the range and target shooting I will take the BPCR but for hunting and carrying I would prefer the Traditional Hunter.

[oldred]

As Bigted so correctly pointed out there are few similarities between the "New" 1885 Winchesters/Brownings and the Uberti, they actually are two different rifles and even with the quality differences aside comparing the two is an "apples and orange" affair. They share a vague outward appearance and the basic falling block design but other than that (and the "1885" model no.) not much else will even come close, I don't mean similar parts that are different enough not to fit I mean a VERY different design. The Uberti pretty much holds true to the original Winchester design, simple, rugged, easy to disassemble/reassemble with relatively few parts while the newer Winchester/Browning 1885s are thoroughly modern designs and quite complex with a lot of small intricate internal parts that make for a much more complicated disassemble/reassemble procedure. Both rifles have their own attributes, both good and not-so-good, but they just ain't the same gun!

[sharpsguy]

Get an 1874 Sharps and don't look back.

[bigted]

often on GB you will find Uberti's and Pedrosoli's around your price range but rarely will you fins a C-Sharps or a Shiloh for under 1700 dollars. the shootability is roughly the same but the final fit n finish for the run of the mill Sharps in American versus Italian production is a bit different. the '74' Sharps in either Uberti or Pedrosoli will fill your needs well with their simple actions and classic good looks from yesterday. they are more in line with what the original rifles were like then the modern Hiwalls. the exception would be ...[as I have read about only]... the C-Sharps 1885 Hiwall productions. these are very close to original as I have heard but alas they will run close to the same price as the Sharps they produce.

for the money I would steer you towards a Traditional Hunter in Winchester or Browning rifle. you will get more bang for your buck with this excellent rifle. it comes close to the all round rifle in your price range I think. unless of course you could eke out a few more bucks for a custom classic rifle from the American builders ... this in the long run would serve you well as a once inna lifetime purchase... to be admired and handled with pride for a lifetime.

I waited for a very long time for my Shiloh and would do it again. it is in a chamber I didn't really want again but it IS along the lines I did want AND it IS a Shiloh in the Hartford configuration ... what a splendid rifle. have been tempted to have it rebarreled at the Shiloh factory but thus far I cant bear to part with it for the time it would take to complete the rebarrel and return it to me... maybe this winter.

[Ninety Caliber]

Get an 1874 Sharps and don't look back.

Well, that's what what I originally wanted..... But can't find anything locally within the budget. Gun broker doesn't have much.....was thinking about that Tri-Star but was warned off by some guys on this and other forums. This is REALLY a pain!
This is a segment of the firearms world I know nothing about. I can buy revolvers, lever guns, and 1911's without help.....but this s making me CRAZY!

[Clay M]

I am very bias, but think you ought to look at a Ruger #1!
1Shirt!

+1 for the #1...;)
I love my two Sharps ,but the #1 is much more handy for hunting,and seems to shoot cast bullets well.It is a very fun rifle with cast.

[XTR]

Well, that's what what I originally wanted..... But can't find anything locally within the budget. Gun broker doesn't have much.....was thinking about that Tri-Star but was warned off by some guys on this and other forums. This is REALLY a pain!
This is a segment of the firearms world I know nothing about. I can buy revolvers, lever guns, and 1911's without help.....but this s making me CRAZY!

If you haven't shot a 45-70 there are some things to understand. I am sure you have see the movie starring a Shiloh Sharps in Australia, and you have read that they killed buffalo at long range with them; but before you walk into this thinking you are buying a long range rifle you should understand how that is accomplished. From a 100 yard zero a 45-70 is looking at nearly two feet of drop to 200 yards, most any modern center fire is looking at about 3 inches. They can be accurate at long range, but they are not tack drivers, they are sledge hammers that come in on an arc.

Do you plan to shoot smokeless and jacketed or are you planning to play with cast bullets and possibly black powder.

For a hunting rifle I like my Win-Mir 1885. A single shot is about 4" shorter than a repeater for a given barrel, so my 24" swings like a carbine, a 28 would feel like a normal length hunting rifle. Loaded with Remington jacketed 405s and smokeless it is a good deer/hog gun out to 200. It would probably shoot further, but if I'm hunting from a stand over a 300 yard field I'll carry a 7-08 and shoot something that gets to 450 yards with the same drop as a 45-70 at 200.

If you can afford a Montana gun get one
If you plan to shoot BP and cast and can't afford a Montana gun get a Win BPCR Highwall or an Italian '74
If you never plan to shoot black and want a hunting rifle get a new Win Highwall
If you plan to maybe experiment with black/cast and shoot smokeless too look at a Win BPCR or an Italian

If you are buying Italian I think the best answers are the Pedersoli/Uberti offerings (I'd include Cimarron in there) I'd stay away from any of the other Italians.

Do not get a crescent buttplate, it makes the recoil worse.

(Edit: for the record I have two 45-70s. A C. Sharps '74 that I shoot with Black and the Win-Mir that I use with smokeless)

[NSB]

If you haven't shot a 45-70 there are some things to understand. I am sure you have see the movie starring a Shiloh Sharps in Australia, and you have read that they killed buffalo at long range with them; but before you walk into this thinking you are buying a long range rifle you should understand how that is accomplished. From a 100 yard zero a 45-70 is looking at nearly two feet of drop to 200 yards, most any modern center fire is looking at about 3 inches. They can be accurate at long range, but they are not tack drivers, they are sledge hammers that come in on an arc.

Do you plan to shoot smokeless and jacketed or are you planning to play with cast bullets and possibly black powder.

For a hunting rifle I like my Win-Mir 1885. A single shot is about 4" shorter than a repeater for a given barrel, so my 24" swings like a carbine, a 28 would feel like a normal length hunting rifle. Loaded with Remington jacketed 405s and smokeless it is a good deer/hog gun out to 200. It would probably shoot further, but if I'm hunting from a stand over a 300 yard field I'll carry a 7-08 and shoot something that gets to 450 yards with the same drop as a 45-70 at 200.

If you can afford a Montana gun get one
If you plan to shoot BP and cast and can't afford a Montana gun get a Win BPCR Highwall or an Italian '74
If you never plan to shoot black and want a hunting rifle get a new Win Highwall
If you plan to maybe experiment with black/cast and shoot smokeless too look at a Win BPCR or an Italian

If you are buying Italian I think the best answers are the Pedersoli/Uberti offerings (I'd include Cimarron in there) I'd stay away from any of the other Italians.

Do not get a crescent buttplate, it makes the recoil worse.

A very, very good answer. Covers a lot of bases and I agree with each one of them. Even down to the Win/Miroku 1886.

[Ninety Caliber]

If you haven't shot a 45-70 there are some things to understand. I am sure you have see the movie starring a Shiloh Sharps in Australia, and you have read that they killed buffalo at long range with them; but before you walk into this thinking you are buying a long range rifle you should understand how that is accomplished. From a 100 yard zero a 45-70 is looking at nearly two feet of drop to 200 yards, most any modern center fire is looking at about 3 inches. They can be accurate at long range, but they are not tack drivers, they are sledge hammers that come in on an arc.

Do you plan to shoot smokeless and jacketed or are you planning to play with cast bullets and possibly black powder.

For a hunting rifle I like my Win-Mir 1885. A single shot is about 4" shorter than a repeater for a given barrel, so my 24" swings like a carbine, a 28 would feel like a normal length hunting rifle. Loaded with Remington jacketed 405s and smokeless it is a good deer/hog gun out to 200. It would probably shoot further, but if I'm hunting from a stand over a 300 yard field I'll carry a 7-08 and shoot something that gets to 450 yards with the same drop as a 45-70 at 200.

If you can afford a Montana gun get one
If you plan to shoot BP and cast and can't afford a Montana gun get a Win BPCR Highwall or an Italian '74
If you never plan to shoot black and want a hunting rifle get a new Win Highwall
If you plan to maybe experiment with black/cast and shoot smokeless too look at a Win BPCR or an Italian

If you are buying Italian I think the best answers are the Pedersoli/Uberti offerings (I'd include Cimarron in there) I'd stay away from any of the other Italians.

Do not get a crescent buttplate, it makes the recoil worse.

(Edit: for the record I have two 45-70s. A C. Sharps '74 that I shoot with Black and the Win-Mir that I use with smokeless)


I own and shoot a 45-70 lever gun (right now smokeless and cast) I want to experiment with BP so ill shoot both. Can't afford a "Montana " rifle my budgets a grand . Was trying to decide between a Winchester and a Uberti (see above).highwall.
What's a '74?

[rr2241tx]

Although the Miroku 1885 Browning/Winchester rifles are non-traditional inside, they are excellent firearms and Lee Shaver Gunsmithing will exchange your stock trigger for one he has worked his magic on for $65 and shipping. If you plan to do target or silhouette shooting, get the BPCR model, otherwise the Traditional Hunter or Short Hunter, both with crescent buttplates, will do just fine for jacketed or cast bullet shooting with either smokeless or black. I mostly shoot my M/Win 1885 Short Hunter with IMR-4759 and a 568 grain cast PB bullet. I keep the tang sight zeroed at 100 yards and have verified come-ups for out to 300 yards on a brass plate I intended to inlet into the right side of the butt stock. Never did get the Shaver trigger mod, removed the rear barrel sight and traded the front sight for a taller Marbles sight with a smaller bead. Last I knew, CDNN still had some in stock in your price range.

[NSB]

Although the Miroku 1885 Browning/Winchester rifles are non-traditional inside, they are excellent firearms and Lee Shaver Gunsmithing will exchange your stock trigger for one he has worked his magic on for $65 and shipping. If you plan to do target or silhouette shooting, get the BPCR model, otherwise the Traditional Hunter or Short Hunter, both with crescent buttplates, will do just fine for jacketed or cast bullet shooting with either smokeless or black. I mostly shoot my M/Win 1885 Short Hunter with IMR-4759 and a 568 grain cast PB bullet. I keep the tang sight zeroed at 100 yards and have verified come-ups for out to 300 yards on a brass plate I intended to inlet into the right side of the butt stock. Never did get the Shaver trigger mod, removed the rear barrel sight and traded the front sight for a taller Marbles sight with a smaller bead. Last I knew, CDNN still had some in stock in your price range.

They made some with shotgun style butt plates also. I have one with a 24" bbl and the shotgun plate with a recoil pad on it. I was going to get the trigger done by Lee Shaver but I measured it and it was 3.0lbs right out of the box so I just left it alone. It's perfect for a hunting gun and pretty good even for target work. The fit and finish is flawless on mine.

[XTR]

What's a '74?

1874 Sharps

[Ninety Caliber]

Ah.....thanks to all who replied.....I guess the Winchester is worth the extra dough? Before I "pull the trigger" anything else I should consider?
My plan is to also use it for SASS long-rang side matches. Shoot big bore lever now....wanted to try Buffalo and Single shot.:)

[bigted]

ninety ... I just shot my Winchester today. after a bunch of paperpatch loads this barrel is so smooth that it nearly cleans itself. my wild west mold is a .452 inch slick and is adjustable ... with a fat sharps nose and hollow base as a nose pour ... I have it adjusted to throw 407 grain slicks. I wet wrap em with .004 printer paper and after completely dry I lube em along the body with case forming wax and shove the patched boolits thru my LEE .460 inch size die. then I can load the boolits in a case that is just flared a bit to start the boolit in ... no resizing of the case at all. my Winchester traditional hunter loves em with a factory like load of 38 grains of 3031. I shot some of these today and I could hit and break any rock that I could see. with the full buckhorn rear [ I replaced the original with this Marples full buckhorn] and a tall bead up front. this is a fun rifle and I like to exercise it lotz.

you will like your choice...it should do all you wish for and then some. after getting it and shooting it for awhile I might suggest a book from "texasmac" here on this forum that details many of the small things about these rifles. it also gives a step by step for disassembly/reassembly and some tricks to make this a easy task with just the smallest study of the internals.

hope all the details on "other" rifle makes and models didn't muddy the water too much and again I believe you have the best decision with going with the Winchester Traditional Hunter with the 28 inch barrel.

[Ninety Caliber]

ninety ... I just shot my Winchester today. after a bunch of paperpatch loads this barrel is so smooth that it nearly cleans itself. my wild west mold is a .452 inch slick and is adjustable ... with a fat sharps nose and hollow base as a nose pour ... I have it adjusted to throw 407 grain slicks. I wet wrap em with .004 printer paper and after completely dry I lube em along the body with case forming wax and shove the patched boolits thru my LEE .460 inch size die. then I can load the boolits in a case that is just flared a bit to start the boolit in ... no resizing of the case at all. my Winchester traditional hunter loves em with a factory like load of 38 grains of 3031. I shot some of these today and I could hit and break any rock that I could see. with the full buckhorn rear [ I replaced the original with this Marples full buckhorn] and a tall bead up front. this is a fun rifle and I like to exercise it lotz.

you will like your choice...it should do all you wish for and then some. after getting it and shooting it for awhile I might suggest a book from "texasmac" here on this forum that details many of the small things about these rifles. it also gives a step by step for disassembly/reassembly and some tricks to make this a easy task with just the smallest study of the internals.

hope all the details on "other" rifle makes and models didn't muddy the water too much and again I believe you have the best decision with going with the Winchester Traditional Hunter with the 28 inch barrel.

Well, just got it today....boy am I pumped! At the gun show , very slightly used.....paid $800. With tang sight ! Think I got a GREAT deal. Pics and range report to follow.
Thanks again guys!
Btw this one is a Browning label....beautiful!

[bigted]

Ninety Caliber ... cool on the purchase. you will have a ball with that rifle. the browning is the same rifle so no worry's except for that GOLD trigger ... LOL. I do like the engraving on the lever on my browning ... its a 38-55 with a heavy #4 winchester contour barrel.

enjoy and as my experience has been with these rifles ... they like the .460 inch diameter boolits with either Black Powder or Smokeless Powder ... paperpatch or greasers. you WILL have a ball with your new rifle. should have a 20 inch twist so it will or should shoot any boolit you want or need to shoot. mine loves the 400ish grain boolits best but I got a mold from accurate that throws 345 grain flatnose and my rifle will print them in a 1 hole group if I do my part.

[Ninety Caliber]

Ninety Caliber ... cool on the purchase. you will have a ball with that rifle. the browning is the same rifle so no worry's except for that GOLD trigger ... LOL. I do like the engraving on the lever on my browning ... its a 38-55 with a heavy #4 winchester contour barrel.

enjoy and as my experience has been with these rifles ... they like the .460 inch diameter boolits with either Black Powder or Smokeless Powder ... paperpatch or greasers. you WILL have a ball with your new rifle. should have a 20 inch twist so it will or should shoot any boolit you want or need to shoot. mine loves the 400ish grain boolits best but I got a mold from accurate that throws 345 grain flatnose and my rifle will print them in a 1 hole group if I do my part.


Big Ted ,
Thanks. I actually like the gold trigger lol. Shooting a SASS match today or I'd try it out, ill sure shoot it this coming week. Got fifty rounds loaded up soooo :)