double trigger

[Brittany]

I have a TC New Englander. I am to understand that they make a double trigger that will fit my New Englander. Where could I purchase one of these.
Charlie

[R.M.]

http://www.redaviscompany.com/triggers.html

[bubba.50]

all new englanders are single trigger and the trigger & guard are a single unit. double set triggers and guards are separate units. the inletting is entirely different & it would be pretty major surgery to put double set triggers in a new englander. if you really want double set triggers you should look into getting a hawken or renegade or the italian equivalent. luck & have a good'en friend, bubba.

[Lead Fred]

Do yourself a favor and do not try and up grade a production gun. Its always more of a pain than its worth.

Double sets are the bomb

85823

[scb]

You do realize that there is more to it that "simply" installing a trigger plate with a set trigger set up? The tumbler also has to have a fly added to it. I am not familiar with the New Englander. If it shares a tumbler common with the Hawken it may already have one or at least be cut for one.

[GARD72977]

I like the trigger on my New Englander. Im not a huge fan of double set triggers. I have them but I like a single trigger just a well.

[fouronesix]

I like double set triggers for serious, most accurate target shooting. However, I also have several MLs with single triggers. If I put away the double sets for a while and spend some range time I can usually get back to good shooting with the singles, even with the original muskets that have long, mega pound pulls. I can also spend some time with a rolling block or trapdoor gun which make even the heaviest musket single triggers seem like 2oz target triggers.

If the New Englander were mine, I'd smooth the sear and lock then stick with the single trigger. Or you could find someone familiar with and knowledgeable about T/C locks to smooth the sear and lock. Likely, any stiff or gravely single trigger on these is going to be primarily a function of the sear and lock workings and not so much the trigger itself.

As has been posted, re-fitting with a double trigger may not be a simple drop in process. Doable- yes. But likely more than a simple replacement. Not only will the lock need a fly (if it doesn't have one) but there may be some inletting and fitting involved and possibly even a different trigger guard. But, having never done it to a New Englander, I can't honesty say how easy or involved it may be.

[Omnivore]

If the New Englander were mine, I'd smooth the sear and lock then stick with the single trigger.

That's good advice there-- with far less work than installing a double set trigger (and probably a bigger triggerguard to accommodate the two triggers) you can have a nice single trigger. Just don't over-do it. If you think you want to go that route, find out first if you can get a new replacement tumbler, and maybe a new sear arm, in case you screw it up.

On the other hand, if you want to practice inletting and fitting of a double trigger so you know more before building your own rifle later on, doing it on a cheaper rifle like the New Englander makes a lot of sense-- no huge loss if you mess up a little. I now have a nice "pineapple" cap box, and some hand-made, flush-fitting barrel key escutcheons, on my cheapo Lyman for that reason-- it's a practice gun.

My Lyman/Investarm rifle has a single trigger and a fly, so there is precedent for such a thing. The TC may have much the same lock. You can tell if it has a fly very easily and without removing the lock. Just bring it to full cock, and while holding the hammer back with your thumb, pull the trigger just enough to release the tumbler from full cock and immediately let go of the trigger as you slowly lower the hammer. If it has a fly it will be impossible to lower the hammer/tumbler from full-cock into half-cock-- you'll have to lower the hammer all the way or nearly all the way, past the fly where it will "click" and then bring the hammer back into half-cock. If it's there, chances are you've already noticed that.

Without a fly, if you fire the lock from the set trigger, the half-cock notch will typically slam into the sear, possibly breaking something and for sure causing a mis-fire.

[Brittany]

Thanks guy I think if I want a Hawkens style rifle I should just buy one.

Charlie

[Rattus58]

Double set triggers have a couple of things, in my opinion, going for them. One, that follow up shot...... Ok... maybe not... but it will more likely result in no need for a followup shot. The set trigger in my opinion, improves accuracy dramatically because it doesn't influence your trigger pull quite so much and potentially cause a pulling off target as you pull the trigger. The set trigger allows for a whisper to set off the gun when you are on target... superior in my estimation and while you are still hunting or jump something, you can still pull the front trigger (in my guns anyway) with a heavier pull but life isn't all roses.... Don't under any circumstance walk around with the set engaged... :grin: You might make national news otherwise... :grin:

[OverMax]

I've never come across a single trigger I liked. Being their very rudimentary on traditional rifles. Pretty hard to tweak into a nice reasonable poundage pull. Not so with set triggers. Target practice /hunting my double set is always used. I like a hair trigger with a 1-lb pull or less. It give me confidence and the ability to concentrate on my target and not having to worry about whether or not I can pull that awful heavy single trigger.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/FileSingleSetTrigger.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/FileSingleSetTrigger.jpg.html)
This is a Single set Trigger,I made and fitted to an own made 50 cal Muzzleloader.The heart shaped cut out has a peak at the top and the Spring is adjusted to just be almost riding over the peak.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/P1010012-1.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/P1010012-1.jpg.html)
This is the Rifle I fitted the Single set trigger to.It was necessary to modify the Tumbler by making and fitting a Detent (Fly).The Lock is from an old Shotgun,I made the Hammer and the other Parts.

[Omnivore]

Col4570; Well that is something different. IF I understand it correctly as a cam-over-center spring assist, I wouldn't call it a "set" trigger, but rather a "spring assist" trigger, as it isn't the usual, separately-cocked mechanical relay device. It's still a one-piece, single trigger. It wouldn't necessarily need a fly on the tumbler either.

That is IF I understand it correctly. As drawn, the geometry of it wouldn't allow for "assist" but rather the opposite, so maybe there's something I'm not getting.

[Col4570]

Omnivore,When a friend posted this design to me I doubted it efficiency.I went ahead and produced one and fitted it to my Rifle.It did not work too well the tumbler and sear falling on half cock every time.I then modified the tumbler to take a detent and it worked perfectly with a Crisp let off.It is set by pushing the Trigger forwards so that the Spring Roller rides over the inner point of the Heart shaped cut out on the Trigger Blade.It can be adjusted to be on the verge of riding over the point.When the trigger is pulled it is so fast it leaves the trigger finger behind.My Friend copied the design from an old Book and has,nt been able to find the article again.The trigger can also be used as a normal one in the unset mode.I will remove it and post a Photo when I get time.
Regards.

[Omnivore]

Col4570; Ah ha. I wasn't quite getting it then. I thought it didn't set, but just cammed over from a resting position. Now I think I understand it. So the adjusting screw is for determining the exact position of the roller over-center before taking the shot. Super simple, and I'm sure it's quite effective.

[fouronesix]

Col4570,
Good to see you're still around! I remember some posts relative to that project. For those who don't know or remember, Col4570 is one heckuva talented DIY gunsmith there in the English countryside. Lots of skill and craft.

[Col4570]

Howdy fouronesix,best regards.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/WhitworthLock001.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/WhitworthLock001.jpg.html)
This is a whitworth rifle Lock,it does ,nt need a set Trigger but it has a detent.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/WhitworthLock003.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/WhitworthLock003.jpg.html)This is a better Photo and the detent should just be seen.

[Hang Fire]

Do yourself a favor and do not try and up grade a production gun. Its always more of a pain than its worth.

Double sets are the bomb

85823

Sure not a lot of room for a gloved finger inside the guard.

[oldfart1956]

I have a TC New Englander. I am to understand that they make a double trigger that will fit my New Englander. Where could I purchase one of these.
Charlie Charlie the short answer is yes you can convert it to a double trigger. And it's not hard. You'll need some parts off a T/C Hawkens. The trigger guard (for the space it provides for the 2 triggers) and of course the trigger set. Turn your New Englander upside down and remove the guard and trigger and it should take you about 10 seconds to note what needs to be done by looking at the new parts. An Exacto knife, a 1/4 in. sharp chisel and a bit of patience will be required. Should take about 30 minutes. Our group has had several single-trigger T/C's converted over. ( 1 New Englander) If you're worried about doing the work contact Jim Cullers at Ft. Chambers Gun Shop in Chambersburg, Pa. and he'll help you out. By the way we've also got a New Englander changed to flint. By the same gunsmith. I haven't had a T/C apart in a while but believe they all have either the cut-out for the "fly" or actually have the "fly" even in the models with single triggers. The percussion lock in the New Englander is the same dimensions as the flint lock for the hawkens model...drops right in. It's not rocket science Charlie...you can do this. Audie...the Oldfart..

[Brittany]

Well people, like a real man would I solved the problem. How about a TC hawkins 45 cal. Love this gun, have been shooting a RB with 30 grains of pryo. Lots of fun to shoot.

But want to thank you for all the info, but it seemed more trouble that it was worth and I have always wanted a Hawkens.
Chatlie