A.C.E. 12 Ga 740 Gr HB slug

[338RemUltraMag]

LAST CALL




OK, after some discussion this will be the first mold cut by Appalachian Casting Equipment Co. This is going to be a full bore ride slug that can be roll crimped or star crimped. I will offer this in a single cavity nose pour hollow base mold.

Price for this single cavity mold will be $110 and will come with a lyman style pin.
The mold will accept Lee style 6 cavity handles (not included) all metal parts will be made from heat treated steel, the sprue plate will be blued. This mold will be made from 7075 aluminum unless someone has objections and then I can cut it on 2024.

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/joshaaronelli/12GA740grHB2.png (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/joshaaronelli/media/12GA740grHB2.png.html)

Turn around time on this mold should be very quick with my shop, we have 5 CNC machines that run 24 hrs a day. I will make a few sample molds and cast with them to ensure they function flawlessly.

If there are any other questions please ask!

[338RemUltraMag]

If you want additional pins PLEASE either PM or state it in this thread, I will offer:

Round
Flat
Turbo bell

Single cavity is $110
Each additional pin $20 due to the size of the material

Sign up list:

1. jmortimer (all pins)
2. jasonf
3. SP5315 SHIPPED
4. Alaska guy SHIPPED
5. Springfield (turbo bell)
6. Heavy lead (round) SHIPPED
7. RED333 (all pins) SHIPPED
8. TX.shotgun01 (turbo bell) SHIPPED
9. olereb SHIPPED
10. Aaron (all pins) SHIPPED
11. AZBrian (all pins) SHIPPED
12. stripercrazy (all pins) SHIPPED
13. turbo1889 (all pins) SHIPPED
14.
15. Tx reloader72 (round and turbo bell) SHIPPED
16. Hackleback (all pins)
17.
18. 725 (round) SHIPPED
19. scrubber (all pins) SHIPPED
20. X-man
21. rwsem (turbo bell) SHIPPED
22. missionary 5155 (turbo bell) SHIPPED
23. AZBrian (all pins) SHIPPED
24. jmortimer (all pins)
25.

[jmort]

I'm in. Thanks

[jason f]

I'm in

[randoma]

This is probably a stupid question but, what exactly is a "full bore ride slug"?

[338RemUltraMag]

This is probably a stupid question but, what exactly is a "full bore ride slug"?

It will not fit inside a wad, it will sit in the hull and shoot just like a regular boolit

[SP5315]

I like it, I'll take one.

[Bullshop Junior]

Im in. Pick me pick me!!!

[Springfield]

Depending on price I would like one also.

[Heavy lead]

A wonderful design, I came in late for the discussion but am a little concerned about not having a step for a roll crimp, but will buy one regardless.
Two questions, can you offer a push through sizer as well with the group buy? I'd want one at .729 if possible, also could you make an option to have a deaper base pin to lighten it as well.
Regardless put me on the list please one cavity.

[338RemUltraMag]

A wonderful design, I came in late for the discussion but am a little concerned about not having a step for a roll crimp, but will buy one regardless.
Two questions, can you offer a push through sizer as well with the group buy? I'd want one at .729 if possible, also could you make an option to have a deaper base pin to lighten it as well.
Regardless put me on the list please one cavity.

I will work on the bigger pin and a flatpoint pin, should not be a problem at all. The roll crimp will rest right on the nose about half way up. A push through sizer may not be a bad idea.

[RED333]

Sign me up, please.

[Heavy lead]

I will work on the bigger pin and a flatpoint pin, should not be a problem at all. The roll crimp will rest right on the nose about half way up. A push through sizer may not be a bad idea.

Thank You Sir, should make a wonderful Christmas gift for myself.

[jason f]

Different pin designs would be a nice option. Even a blank pin for making a flat base.

[Bullshop Junior]

I like the idea of a flat base pin. My gun slugs at .730" so i think i hould be able to shoot as cast.

As for a push through sizer, a die of that size may have to be made for a single stage press where you can take out the "bushing" and use the larger size die.

[338RemUltraMag]

I like the idea of a flat base pin. My gun slugs at .730" so i think i hould be able to shoot as cast.

As for a push through sizer, a die of that size may have to be made for a single stage press where you can take out the "bushing" and use the larger size die.

It would be thin for sure if using 7/8x14 and it would get pricey if I went 1-1/4 but that is your call guys.

[Lonegun1894]

I would be very interested, depending on price. Would be just as interested in a 20ga version too. And the different pins to adjust weight would be icing on the cake.

[stripercrazy]

interested for sure

[turbo1889]

Potentially interested depending on price and what your mold block construction looks like (block material, HB pin material, HB pin style of implementation, alignment pins style, and sprue plate set-up).

I would appreciate some details on the block set-up you are intending to use, this is important for me since with slug molds I cast enough of them (thousands upon thousands) that I have and do wear out molds so I need to have some details on the molds construction since that will to a large part determine its useful life span and what kind of quantity I can expect out of the molds life span. At this point I've got over a half dozen of the Lee slug molds that have been worn out and in the parts bucket, and a couple Lyman 525 molds and even a MM custom that I wore out (although I was machine casting with it), where as I have a couple other molds from custom makers that don't have the flaws in the design that are still serving me well on the first mold with as many or more cast cycles on them.

Same question for the 20ga. version which is still in the discussion zone and is not yet an active buy.

[wlc]

interested depending on details

[TX.shotgun01]

Depending on price I would like one also. What type of mold handles can be used with it

[Hackleback]

Tentatively, in- as with others, details like, price and materials need to be included before I commit.

[338RemUltraMag]

Added info.

[olereb]

I'll take one

[TX.shotgun01]

I'm in for one

[RED333]

Cant wait, I have a rifle barreled 500 and a Saiga with a rifled choke that is looking for this.

[338RemUltraMag]

Updated list.

[Bullshop Junior]

When is the closing date?

[Aaron]

Tag me for one please. Would like a 20 ga version as well.

Aaron

[338RemUltraMag]

When is the closing date?

This buy will close as soon as I get them perfected, I am ordering the tooling today.

Josh

[turbo1889]

Okay, you answered all my questions about the mold construction except one. Alignment pins, male/female steel pairs, male only into simple hole in block for female side, or something else I haven't thought of (I don't think anyone crazy enough to duplicate Lee waffle style).

If its male/female steel pairs for the alignment pins I'm in for one.

[Tx reloader72]

Put me down for one. Ye ole' 12 gauge needs a good workout.

[338RemUltraMag]

Okay, you answered all my questions about the mold construction except one. Alignment pins, male/female steel pairs, male only into simple hole in block for female side, or something else I haven't thought of (I don't think anyone crazy enough to duplicate Lee waffle style).

If its male/female steel pairs for the alignment pins I'm in for one.

Yes this will be hardened steel male/female pins, much like the Lee or NOE pins, I have you down for a single cavity.

[turbo1889]

Thanks !!!

Also, let me know when the 20ga. buy goes active.

Also, group buy log in link at bottom of page is not working for me, you will get paid regardless, but the link just goes to a dead page that says I need to contact me server support ????

[338RemUltraMag]

Thanks !!!

Also, let me know when the 20ga. buy goes active.

Also, group buy log in link at bottom of page is not working for me, you will get paid regardless, but the link just goes to a dead page that says I need to contact me server support ????

No, when this closes I will send PM's and calls for payment then, expect this in 4-5 weeks, I want as many people to join as possible but will not let this run too long.

Also, I will check in with the prices for different size hollow base pins and will post those as soon as I get a price finalized!

Josh

[Paulinski]

Will this work in smooth bore?

[Bullshop Junior]

I wouldnt shoot it through a gun with a choke.

[Hackleback]

I am in, would like to reiterate the request for a flat base pin option, or as an addition.

[Heavy lead]

Any more thoughts on a push through sizer?
Hoping for thin 7/8x14.

[turbo1889]

Any more thoughts on a push through sizer?
Hoping for thin 7/8x14.

I think that would end up being too thin on the walls because according to my quick reference table the thread depth on a 7/8x14 thread leaves only 0.78" diameter of solid core diameter bottom of thread to bottom of thread on the opposite side. With 0.730" sizer (for example) that means only 0.025" wall thickness where the bottom of the thread grooves are. I don't think that's enough wall thickness left to be strong enough to actually size and would be a royal bear for the machinist to cut, that thin of walls your bound to start getting some chatter when boring.

I think you need at bare minimum 1" threads and most presses with a removable bushing to provide a larger thread the larger thread is either 1-1/4x12 or 1-1/2x12 thread so that is probably what would need to be for push through this big.

Also, the mold maker doesn't necessarily have to be the one who makes the push through dies as well. I know buckshot will make them and has for several on this board.

Me personally with shotgun slugs unless there is a considerable size difference I let the gun size the slug for me. Considerable size difference would be like a slug that cast 0.740" and I had one of those deliberately slightly tight rifled barrels that is only 0.727" or so in the major groove diameter (better accuracy resulted from those deliberately slightly tight barrels with commercial slug loads so that be why that company made them that way, and its not a bad idea since we all know that cast boolits usually need a thous. or two or so over bore diameter for best accuracy) then I size the slug down. But I wouldn't hesitate a micro-second to shoot a slug that cast at 0.730" through such a slightly tight barrel "as cast". In-fact I would consider that to be about ideal and would be the size I would size too for those internal barrel dimensions if the slug did need to be sized. I personally just love it when boolits drop right from the mold at just the right size for my barrel so I don't have to size and can just tumble lube, load, and shoot. One less thing that has to be done in order to get to the last step there.

[338RemUltraMag]

Well, with Turbo on my thread I dont even have to answer my own questions! Thanks man! I do think it would be cheaper for someone like buckshot to make a sizing die if you deem it necessary, for me that would be another learning experience in fine machining.

For what it's worth .734 slug will have no issues going through a shotguns massive forcing cone at the end of the chamber, it is no different than sizing boolits for a revolver at .360 and shooting them through a .357 bore.

[Heavy lead]

I think that would end up being too thin on the walls because according to my quick reference table the thread depth on a 7/8x14 thread leaves only 0.78" diameter of solid core diameter bottom of thread to bottom of thread on the opposite side. With 0.730" sizer (for example) that means only 0.025" wall thickness where the bottom of the thread grooves are. I don't think that's enough wall thickness left to be strong enough to actually size and would be a royal bear for the machinist to cut, that thin of walls your bound to start getting some chatter when boring.

I think you need at bare minimum 1" threads and most presses with a removable bushing to provide a larger thread the larger thread is either 1-1/4x12 or 1-1/2x12 thread so that is probably what would need to be for push through this big.

Also, the mold maker doesn't necessarily have to be the one who makes the push through dies as well. I know buckshot will make them and has for several on this board.

Me personally with shotgun slugs unless there is a considerable size difference I let the gun size the slug for me. Considerable size difference would be like a slug that cast 0.740" and I had one of those deliberately slightly tight rifled barrels that is only 0.727" or so in the major groove diameter (better accuracy resulted from those deliberately slightly tight barrels with commercial slug loads so that be why that company made them that way, and its not a bad idea since we all know that cast boolits usually need a thous. or two or so over bore diameter for best accuracy) then I size the slug down. But I wouldn't hesitate a micro-second to shoot a slug that cast at 0.730" through such a slightly tight barrel "as cast". In-fact I would consider that to be about ideal and would be the size I would size too for those internal barrel dimensions if the slug did need to be sized. I personally just love it when boolits drop right from the mold at just the right size for my barrel so I don't have to size and can just tumble lube, load, and shoot. One less thing that has to be done in order to get to the last step there.

Most likely I'll have to contact Buckshot to have one made, I do have two Remington barrels that are .727, they shoot lights out at 100 yards with handloaded Guilandi slugs and Longshot, I think this will be a good slug load for them as well, oddly neither one likes any sabot I've ever shot from it and I've tried them all and handloaded a few two.
I'm thinking I need to be .729 with these, maybe I'll just wait and see how the mould casts. I do have one press with the bigger threads, it would just be nice to not deal with popping it out to size slugs with.

[RED333]

Here ya go,
http://www.microgroup.com/Products/StockTubing/fractional_tubing.asp
Search for ".730" down in the 3/4 tube you will find it.

[turbo1889]

Not trying to step on anyone's toes or anything, just saw a question, looked up the thread dimensions in my chart and figured the resulting wall thickness and came to a "That's not going to work" conclusion and said so and offered alternatives.

[jmort]

I'm thinking a sizing die might be possible for the Lee Precision Breech Lock with the sizer being the same thread/pattern as the bushing. I think that is what turbo1889 is referring to. Also, the tubing linked by RED333 might work as well.

[turbo1889]

I don't have a breach lock press, I do have one of their "classic cast iron" presses and the top is actually threaded in the iron casting at 1-1/4x12 thread and the usual 7/8x14 thread you see up there is actually a steel bushing that screws into the larger thread. Just unscrew and you have access to the big thread. That was what I was talking about. Same thing is also true of a lot of other bigger size cast iron presses. On most the big thread in the iron casting is either 1-1/4x12 or 1-1/2x12 although some obscure and or really big monster presses have even bigger threads but they are the rarity.

[RED333]

I am with turbo on this, you might not need to size the slug.
When I get mine I will slug the barrel and choke I have to see
if my stuff will work with out sizing, then go from there.
I have not check to see if the tube I posted is mandrel sized of not.

[338RemUltraMag]

Not trying to step on anyone's toes or anything, just saw a question, looked up the thread dimensions in my chart and figured the resulting wall thickness and came to a "That's not going to work" conclusion and said so and offered alternatives.

I was serious when thanking you, I hope you did not take offense to my off beat humor.

[turbo1889]

No offense taken just explaining my actions in case I did step on anyones toes. Sometimes I can do that when someone asks a question directed at someone else and I know the answer so I jump in and answer when I wasn't the one being asked.

[Fishman]

Is any data available for a 1 3/4 oz slug like this? Pretty massive slug.

[jmort]

Yes - load data available.

[jmort]

"...you might not need to size the slug"

If you use a hard/hardened alloy I don't see how that would work. Softer alloy should swage itself down the barrel. Was reading slug reloading manual from BPI and noticed the following:

Slug Comparison Chart
Part # Slug Name Ga/Size Weight Length Diam
0721612 Dangerous Game Slug 12ga 1-1/8 oz 1.870 0.731
1261232 Thug Slug 12ga 1-1/8 oz 1.822 0.731
1261228 Thug Slug 12ga 1 oz 1.744 0.731
0721610 LBC BluForce Sabot 12ga 1 oz 2.040 0.740
0721613 Thunderbolt Slug 12ga 3" 1-7/16 oz 1.889 0.736
7000002 Foster Slug 12ga 7/8 oz. 0.611 0.678
7000003 Shuttlecock Slug 12ga 450 gr. 0.992 0.660
7000004 Pumpkin Ball Slug 12ga 550 gr. 0.715 0.715
7000005 Green Slug non-toxic 12ga 375 gr. 1.213 0.729
336CTX12 CTX Frangible Slug 12ga 325 gr. 0.681 0.602
0721616 Dangerous Game Slug 16ga 1 oz 1.842 0.668
0721620 Dangerous Game Slug 20ga 7/8 oz 1.825 0.623
1262025 Thug Slug 20ga 7/8 oz 1.708 0.622
0721628 Light Game Slug 28ga 194 gr. 1.202 0.503
0721641 Light Game Slug .410 93 gr. 1.327 0.387
1264100 Thug Slug .410 1/4 oz. 1.572 0.408

So BPI has two slugs, one at .736" and another sabot slug at .740"
I might try a 1 to 20 alloy. With a hard/hardened alloy I don't want to be over .730/.731 with my Mossberg

[338RemUltraMag]

If you can push it through with a press and 100 lb of force a slug gun at 18K lb will not notice the .003 difference.

[bikerbeans]

I am in, only want the HB pin model. Let me know when to make payment.

Also be interested in the 20ga HB mould when it comes around.

Thanks

BB

[725]

I'm going to measure my barrels tomorrow and then stand by for an order. Looks good.

[turbo1889]

As to load data, just use 1-3/4oz. lead shot load data as "donor data" with a plastic gas seal over the powder and then start stacking nitro cards to get the right height for crimping works fine and is an endorsed methodology by one of the best small ammo companies that is famous for its slugs loads (Dixie Slugs). And my pressure trace records confirm that slugs of equal weight all other factors being held constant produce less chamber pressure then lead shot loads of equal weight contrary to popular belief and in accordance to what James the owner of Dixie Slugs has posted on this forum and others.

[Hackleback]

Load data: case of choice, fill with BP until there is just enough room for the slug plus a bit of compression, crimp of choice. Load and hang on. I have been using AA 2 3/4 hulls. Use hulls once and toss.

[Fishman]

As to load data, just use 1-3/4oz. lead shot load data as "donor data" with a plastic gas seal over the powder and then start stacking nitro cards to get the right height for crimping works fine and is an endorsed methodology by one of the best small ammo companies that is famous for its slugs loads (Dixie Slugs). And my pressure trace records confirm that slugs of equal weight all other factors being held constant produce less chamber pressure then lead shot loads of equal weight contrary to popular belief and in accordance to what James the owner of Dixie Slugs has posted on this forum and others.

Thank you Turbo. I remember reading that now.

[725]

OK. I'll take one. Add me to the list for the 12 ga, and notify me when the 20 ga comes along.

[Bullshop Junior]

I recieved in the mail today some full bore test slugs from member biker beans. This seems to be real close to what he sent me

[jason f]

There just a little lighter than the mold we will be getting from a.c.e.

[Bullshop Junior]

Yea, and i prefer the extra weight. As soon as i get a 12ga loader im loading these up in 3" hulls to test them

[bikerbeans]

Bullshop Jr,

The HB slugs I sent are about 600 grains, the solid slugs are around 750 grains. If you can find a lee loadall II and roll crimper for your drill press then you have all you need to load your slugs for not a lot of money.

BB

[Bullshop Junior]

Bullshop Jr,

The HB slugs I sent are about 600 grains, the solid slugs are around 750 grains. If you can find a lee loadall II and roll crimper for your drill press then you have all you need to load your slugs for not a lot of money.

BB

I have enough tools that i could load a few, but am waiting for one of the older lyman loaders to show up. Was gonna load a few last night by hand but dont have any sutable powders.

[scrubber]

Put me down for one.

[725]

I'm not on the list! Don't miss post #59!! I'll take one 12 ga mould.

[jason f]

Have you made a prototype yet.

[X-man]

Please add me to the list as well! I can be reached at sgpenney (at) gmail.com

[rwsem]

Put me on the list as well, please. rwsem at suddenlink dot net.

I've never loaded slugs before but just purchased a rifled barrel for my Fabarm camo mag, so I guess it's time.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Put me down for one. Looks like a big way to thump a critter.
mvfester at gmail dot com no spaces

Now a question for anyone who might know. On rifled 12 bore barrels, is the throat a nice easy transition similar to a normal rifled cartrige barrel or is the throat an abrupt "cone" as in many standard shotgun barrels ?
Mike in Peru

[turbo1889]

Usually its a standard shotgun forcing cone for rifled slug barrels as well.

For those of us having barrels custom chambered and/or the forcing cone modified the more abrupt the better for accuracy seems to be the result. Standard shotgun forcing cone is often too long not too short. Greg is the one who started us on that bent after he had a custom chamber/throat cutter made that used the same kind of throating as a straight walled cartridge carbine rifle would use (like for example a 44-mag carbine rifle) where the chamber was cut nice and tight to be a snug fit around a shotgun shell casing with no slope and a sharp lip edge right exactly at the end of the plastic casing length where the lip was the same height as the thickness of the plastic casing and then a short taper into the rifling just like a good rifle has so there is no "jump" that the bullet/slug has to make through an overbore size area in the forcing cone forward of the case mouth.

Basically following the same logic that has been well founded that a rifle with a long loose and sloppy throat hurts not helps accuracy and a shotgun forcing cone is indeed a long loose and sloppy throat so the cure is not a longer more gradual taper but rather a shorter sharper one with a nice tight chamber as well with a profile to the cut that is more rifle like and less shotgun like.

Greg's is a custom reamer he had made for a 3" shell chamber and made to ream a fresh barrel blank. An alternate solution that I and a few others have done is instead to re-cut a 3" chamber out to 3-1/2" and in the process fix the forcing cone problem with the deeper cut a process which can be accomplished just by a slight re-grind of the tip of a reasonably inexpensive internal cylindrical decimal reamer.

Here is a basically what I did to the chamber on one of my NEF-USH guns. Original 3" chamber with traditional 5-degree or so long shotgun forcing cone profile on top and my re-cut below followed by a close up of the new throat on the re-cut. I just basically ground a 30-degree angle into the forward tip of the reamer and cut to depth and just a trace of the original much shallower forcing cone was left and then I lapped the transition point between the two angles.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2808/10815220936_a1b79b2afa_c.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2612/5845787749_73e63f0f09_z.jpg

Greg used a much sharper almost square lip on his cut but I didn't think that was a wise idea with my longer 3-1/2" chamber because I still wanted to be able to fire shorter shells in my chamber and not get lead shaving build up on the lip like you get when firing 38-spl wadcutter loads in a 357-mag revolver that has a sharp lip transition into the throat. My first cut I used a sharper 45-degree angle and I did get a little build up with it so I re-ground to 30-degrees and then ran it just deep enough to keep the same length of chamber and just knock down the lip angle a little bit and then lapped the corner transition between the two angles like I said and it works good now. Very accurate with full length 3-1/2" shells and can fire shorter shells without getting any considerable build up packing in against the lip. As I said I didn't want to have the same problem as one has with 38-spl. wadcutter loads in a 357 where you have to take a good stiff chamber brush to the chambers to clean out the lead shavings before you can chamber and safely fire 357 loads again.

To illustrate why the shorter rifle throat like transition is more accurate and better for slug loads then a conventional long forcing cone I used MSpaint to draw in some slug shells with thick plastic walls into those to scale CAD prints. Green is the plastic case wall, bronze color is the case head and the grey is the lead slug with some blue lube in the grooves. I think you can clearly see the big jump gap that the forcing cone creates where as with a shorter rifle like throat the slug can go right into the rifling without having to jump an overbore size gap.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7289/10815215205_b87ba5744d_c.jpg


A couple years back my GF made some .gif animations to illustrate the forcing cone jump problem along with similar issues in revolver cartridges where shorter shells can be fired in longer chambers when she got into a big internet fight/debate over the issue over on the shotgun world forum. I'll ask if she still has those files and if so I'll post them since they are animated and show the problem visually.

[turbo1889]

Okay, just called her on her cell and she doesn't have the original files anymore but she told me where to find the thread where she posted them.

This is the link: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=118&t=260656

Be warned, the info is good but it is an argument thread and she isn't very nice to argue with, especially when she is right and she knows she is right and she made some really nasty tear you down one way and the other posts on that forum and others and some social media as well which is why she no longer posts. She just gets into stuff way too deep and just shreds people on the net and especially on "guy stuff" forums it became a problem to the point where we were getting threatening phone calls after someone figured out her real name and she was exchanging verbal threats over the phone with the threatening middle of the night phone caller(s?) and I had to put my foot down and put an end to it.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Thanks Turbo for the fine diagrams and explanation. Have to change my thinking a bit and remember this is just a larger bore rifle.
Mike in Peru

[sparkz]

Turbo1889; I found your GIF file and will post for you


I have and will watch this as I love slug shooting and have loaded for years
for the range and field


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/51104e1245898ff02.gif

Hope it works


Patrick

[338RemUltraMag]

Updated thread, the drawing is at the company, I should have the cherry in 7 days or so. Then I will be cutting the first molds.

[jason f]

Back to the top. Thread has been quiet for a while.

[AZBrian]

I am in - I'll take two (2), please. Also, if you do offer additional pins (discussed in one of the posts), please add those in as well. I like the design as-is but would be happy with more options. Thx!!

[missionary5155]

Greetings and a free bump..... Mike in Peru

[dverna]

More stupid questions.

1. With no wad, does the slug need to be lubed? If so, what do you use?
2. Can it be shot in a 2 3/4" hull? If so, is there any load data. I would be more interested in loads on the light side than "thumper" loads.

Thanks,

Don Verna

[turbo1889]

More stupid questions.

1. With no wad, does the slug need to be lubed? If so, what do you use?
2. Can it be shot in a 2 3/4" hull? If so, is there any load data. I would be more interested in loads on the light side than "thumper" loads.

Thanks,

Don Verna


Yes, slug needs to be lubed. Most of us shooting these big slugs just coat them with the tumble lube stuff, either actually tumbling them, dipping them or one guy puts it on with a paint brush and another guy sprays it on with a paint sprayer. Long story short, tumble lube goop works and your choice how you get it onto the slug.

Some people have even pan-lubed big slugs like this one although that is harder to do with a hollow base slug then a solid one but certainly an option if your of the mind.

As to 2-3/4" shell loads they are certainly possible but you won't find load data for this much weight in that short of a shell usually so the best plan is to use a good slow burning powder like Blue Dot that doesn't have too low charge problems and take a load for this much weight of lead shot for a 3" shell and reduce the charge a whole bunch and put it in a 2-3/4" shell with just nitro cards and then work up a little until its about right. It's not the weight that's an issue in the shorter shell its the fact you have to reduce the charge because the cushioning effect of your wad column is reduced by having two less nitro cards in your stack.

[dverna]

Thank you turbo.

I think I will stay with the Lyman slug for now.

Don Verna

[jason f]

Updated thread, the drawing is at the company, I should have the cherry in 7 days or so. Then I will be cutting the first molds.

What kind of timeframe are we looking at on this one. Thanks jason

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Has there been a call for payment ?
Mike in Peru

[Dannix]

Thoughts on accuracy in a smoothbore?


(I have a Beretta 1200FP I need to feed, and I've become inclined to think 00 buck may not be sufficiently good medicine for ticked off pitbulls and the like. I may go the triball route though...still considering that. I've done nil casting for a while now, too busy.)

[turbo1889]

It's a hollow base design so as drawn without any hollow base pin profile modification accuracy from a smooth bore gun shouldn't be any worse then factory foster slugs. Modify the hollow base pin slightly so it don't thin out the skirt quite as much at the bottom and accuracy from a smooth bore should be better then factory foster slugs.

[jmort]

turbo1889

Lot of good info you posted. Your GF's "animation" and posts are excellent. I'm surprised you were able to get her to stand down. She seems to be a force to be reckoned with. I was going through some of the older threads and wondered what happened to her. In any event, I have learned a lot from what you have posted. Thanks

[turbo1889]

It is possible for me to win a fight with her, however, it takes such an extensive outlet of time and energy and possibly even blood, sweat, and tears that I only will do so on things where it is absolutely necessary.

It's like going to war with Germany, don't do it unless you have too.

[jason f]

Could you take me off of list for mold. Jason

[bikerbeans]

I would like my name removed from the "buy" list.

BB

[Dannix]

It's a hollow base design so as drawn without any hollow base pin profile modification accuracy from a smooth bore gun shouldn't be any worse then factory foster slugs. Modify the hollow base pin slightly so it don't thin out the skirt quite as much at the bottom and accuracy from a smooth bore should be better then factory foster slugs.
Does a rifled barrel require the thinner skirt? (Just curious as to why it's thinner, rather than thicker, that that would be ideal for a smoother bore, since that seems counter intuitive to my noobish understanding i.e. I would have thought a rifled barrel would have required a thicker skirt.)

[turbo1889]

For a slug fired from a smooth bore gun unless its a simple round ball slug the slug must be "aerodynamically stabilized" or in other words balanced and shaped in such a manner so that it continues to fly nose first straight and true down range. Just like an arrow fired from a bow that has fletching on its back end. Slugs fired from a rifled barrel do not need to be so stabilized since the gyro spin imparted to them by the rifling in the bore takes care of the stabilization issue.

Long story short, shoot a slug from a rifled barrel gun and so long as it its not off center balanced it really don't matter a huge amount the spin will take care of the stability issue and it will hit nose first and be fairly accurate regardless.

However, with a smooth bore gun because the shape and balance is so much more critical the finer details start to matter a whole lot more.

I am of a personal opinion based upon my experience and testing of slugs so far that most hollow base slugs unless loaded with a fairly soft load have skirt walls that are too thin and the skirt will at least partially collapse under the load of all the pressure on the wad-column from below during the trip down the barrel which results in the slug exiting the muzzle with the skirt unevenly distorted which translates to losses in accuracy. The reason this translates into such accuracy losses is because having a finely balanced and well shaped and minimally-distorted slug while it is flying through the air down range is much more important for a smooth bore gun because the slug must rely on its balance and shape in order to remain aerodynamically stabilized to fly straight and true and there is no gyro spin to do this job like when fired from a rifled barrel gun.

It is my experience that a bare minimum wall thickness on a hollow base skirt is about 0.08" and preferably a higher practical minimum of about 0.10" wall thickness is necessary in most shotgun slug loads to keep the skirt from significantly and unevenly collapsing under the firing loads during the trip down the barrel. Most factory foster slugs have skirt wall thicknesses with at least some weak spots well below that, and many factory slug molds also barely have enough wall thickness on the skirt to have the minimum strength needed to prevent such significant distortion of the slugs skirt during firing.

I have personally proven to myself that having just a little thicker skirt walls makes a significant improvement in accuracy in a smooth bore gun and the substantial reduction in the distortion of the slugs skirts as a result has been confirmed by careful capture and examination of the fired slugs using the snow drift methodology which is the best way I know of to stop a bullet or slug without mangling it in the process of stopping it so that its actual in-flight condition after it exits the muzzle and before impacting a normal target can be examined.

This group buy slug design as drawn in the diagram in the OP of this thread has a minimum skirt wall thickness of 0.082" which is just barely within what I personally consider a bare minimum. Don't get me wrong, this is a considerable improvement and is a thicker skirt wall then many factory foster slug loads and there is the additional benefit of being able to cast the slug with a little harder, stronger, and tougher alloy then just pure lead which also helps with making the skirt walls stronger and less subject to distortion during firing that can cause accuracy problems down range. But I personally would have preferred a little more thickness in the 0.10"-to-0.13" range which in my experience is a nearly fool proof skirt wall thickness for a hollow base shotgun slug to prevent significant collapse and distortion of the slugs skirt during firing.

Thing with a group buy though is that the design is always a compromise of what everyone wants. Many people don't like the hollow base skirt walls as thick as I do. I'm just glad that its as thick as it is on this design which meets my "bare minimum" standard and I can always modify the pin the make the skirt walls a little thicker if I need too. Something I've already done with several factory molds already.

To continue the arrow analogy, you have to make the fletching fins on the back of the arrow strong enough so that when the arrow is launched they don't get torn up and distorted because that will hurt accuracy down range because they are what keep the arrow stable and flying straight and true. Same goes for a hollow base slug fired from a smooth bore gun, you have to make the skirt of the hollow base with thick enough and strong enough walls to not get torn up, collapsed, and significantly distorted on the trip down the barrel because that hollow base skirt is what keeps the slug flying straight and true once it exits the muzzle.

I personally think this design is a pretty good one for a compromise group buy design. There are some things I personally would have done a little differently and a few areas where it just meets my bare minimum standards but over all its way better then what usually passes for a decent shotgun slug design anywhere else.

[dverna]

Turbo,

Again, a good post and very educational. It is great to see posts from someone who has walked the walk and has opinions based on tests and observations.

Thank you for sharing your experience

Don Verna

[AZBrian]

I updated my original post (#77) to request two (2) of these molds. Thanks!

[Dannix]

skirt walls that are too thin and the skirt will at least partially collapse under the load of all the pressure on the wad-column from below during the trip down the barrel
Ah ha. Thank you, sir. I was only thinking of in-flight and not the launch. Makes since. Many thanks indeed.

Do you use ballistic product's 3" hulls? I have a box of once fired Remington gun club and iirc premier hulls that cost me 2cents and 3cents respectively; I'm not sure if those will suffice for this sort of slug.

I'd like an accurate result; and I'm tempted, to be candid, to just buy 150rds of Brenneke's purportedly accurate for smoothbore offerings and be done with it since I rarely get to target shoot these days any more. But since I cast anyway, I'd also like a good slug mold and load (I'm sitting on 8lbs of GreenDot) as that would allow me to take a group of people target shooting and not result in me thinking of $1+ gone every time they pulled the trigger. (I'd rather them 'spend' my casting and reloading time than money straight out of my pocket.)

I'm going to have to decide on going with this slug mould or going with the tri-ball mould I found on their site. Choices choices. I'll plan on deciding the end of this upcoming week. I could have Buckshot or someone else here modify the pin for me after all. If I go for this slug, I may end up also getting a 1 or 1 1/8 slug designed to fit in a cheap claybuster wad (assuming it can be done with accuracy. I would be happy with 3" at 50yrds).

Sorry, I rambled a bit on this post. Thanks again for your insight above.

[longbow]

I'm with turbo all the way here. I have shot many hollow base slugs and recovered many I have shot and that others have shot and almost all have collapsed skirts due to being too thin, too soft or both.

I have recovered factory slugs that show obvious signs that the wad was driven into the slug's butt and distorted it. I have recovered Gualandi slugs that show amazingly bad skirt distortion from the cushion leg ramming up into the slug's skirt.

I had about given up on hollow base slugs and gone all Brenneke style attached wad slugs. However, being as lazy as I am I find it a lot of work so am rehashing some hollow base designs. I have followed turbo's lead and beefed up the skirts considerably. Unfortunately today even that didn't help me! The only decent groups I got were from 0.662" round balls in shotcups and from a hybrid hollow base/Brenneke design ~ that one did okay so will get more testing.

Sorry, I guess this really has little to do with the group buy except that I didn't get in on it for a few design reasons, some of which turbo has mentioned. Mostly, since am bent on making a smoothbore do what I want, this slug didn't appeal to me because the hollow base is too shallow and the skirt is too thin ~ in my opinion. It may do well in a rifled barrel but I do believe a thicker skirt would be better. It is also heavier than I wanted.

Just my opinion.

Longbow

[turbo1889]

@ Dannix

When I actually buy new 12ga. hulls I buy 3-1/2" length heavy duty high brass ones and reload them at that length until the mouth gets to bad to do a good crimp and then cut them down to 3" and load at that length until once again can't get a good crimp and then cut down to 2-3/4" and load at that length and finally cut them down to short 2" and do single use fire and toss tactical loads (more shells in the mag) and really light bird shot loads.

So if I buy them I buy the big heavy duty ones and get all the use out of them I can. As to used hulls, I'm a total scrounger and will load most anything with the exception of fiber/paper base wad hulls that I can't be sure haven't gotten wet and had their base-wads damaged as a result. Remington single piece compression formed hulls I really like.

For this slug you would be much better off if you were sitting on an 8-lb. jug of Blue Dot, Green dot is too fast for this heavy of a slug. Blue Dot would be perfect. Wrong dot color.

As to Brenneke slugs they are pretty much the gold standard of smooth bore accuracy for a factory load.


----------------------------------


In response to what LongBow had to say:

Skirt wall is not as thick as I would like but I think it will be just barely thick enough to get some decent loads without modification "out of the box". With any group buy designs their is going to be compromises. I'm just glad the skirt walls are as thick as they are. A simple stack of nitro cards over the powder and under the slug, maybe a plastic gas seal over the powder in a 3" or longer load but probably just nitros in 2-3/4" loads and possibly a jaw-breaker hard candy ball or similar of appropriate size in the hollow base of the slug should do the trick without any modification to the mold "out of the box" and produce a decent load.

Also, as to the weight of the slug (and also the nose shape), lets be clear. This slug design is a "thumper" and lets not pretend its anything other. If we were talking a street brawl this slug is like showing up with a base-ball bat not a switch-blade. If that's what you want then this is a good option, if that's not what your looking for . . . . .

[338RemUltraMag]

Double post

[338RemUltraMag]

Joshua,

I am sorry Chris hasn't been following up on this. For the "normal" type cutters for bullet molds we typically charge $xxx each. We will need to know if it is for Aluminum, Brass or Iron. Typical turn around is about a week and a half once we receive the order. I will need to talk to the grinder today and make sure the nose pour isn't going to be an issue, I don't think it will, but that is atypical and the price may need to go up a bit because of that.* Again, sorry for the lack of response from Chris, I will get you taken care of. Matt.

guys,

I have been absent from this thread for a while, life hit hard and in a short time i had a baby, found out my 1st may have a very horrible disease, and have not been able to get a reply from the cherry maker. So i will update this thread when I wake up. I just got back from working a 14 hr overnight shift. Above is the reply I got from the tool maker.

[RED333]

Thank for the update 338, good things come to those that wait, I can wait.
Congrats on the baby and prays to you and yours.

[SP5315]

Gents, I'm going to have to pull out of this one. I'm #3 on the list. I've got some unexpected medical bills. My son slipped on some ice today, broke his wrist and chipped a tooth his today.

[Bullshop Junior]

Im going to have to drop out as well. When this first opened up i was hoping I would have money by the time it came around but thats not happening.

[338RemUltraMag]

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/joshaaronelli/20131228_193250.jpg (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/joshaaronelli/media/20131228_193250.jpg.html)


the cherry is here.

[RED333]

That is good news, now get to cutting. LOL

[338RemUltraMag]

I am... pushy pushy...

[jmort]

It is beautiful. Go real fast on RED333's mold and take your sweet time on mine8-) I'm in no hurry. In fact I nominate RED333's mold as the prototype.:grin:

[RED333]

LOL, Ya done yet?

[Hackleback]

So, how are things going on this GB?

[AlaskanGuy]

I would like to be added to this list.... mark at figelski dot co m .... I would like a solid base and hollow base pin...

AG

[338RemUltraMag]

Got ya in, things are moving along we are cutting the molds now and they should be available to ship shortly. Since this is our first mold I am trying not to make exact deadlines BUT I want to say the call for payment will be within a week.

[jmort]

Take your time, this is not a race. I'm glad you took the time to do this, and are taking your time to do it right. Put me down for a second mold. Thanks

[AlaskanGuy]

Yea, no kidding... Take your time... I dont get paid till the end of the month...

[338RemUltraMag]

Updated, and thanks for the kind words.

[338RemUltraMag]

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/joshaaronelli/20140120_163425.jpg (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/joshaaronelli/media/20140120_163425.jpg.html)

here is a boolit cast from the first one off the CNC the sprue hole is too small and did not allow perfect fillout but that is easily fixed. I will call for payment in a few more days as they are rolling off now.

Joshua

[stripercrazy]

sweet

[338RemUltraMag]

This one is a solid and weighs in at a whopping 922 grains!

[turbo1889]

A little over a 1,000 grains is the practical limit for the maximum sensible slug weight for a 12ga. so even solid that is still within bounds.

You going to take Pay-Pal or is going to be money order cashiers check ? Just need to know whether I should leave the money I have set aside to pay for this in my Pay-Pal account or initiate a three business day no charge transfer to my local bank account that I can get two free cashier checks a month on.

Price quoted in the OP is $110 does that include shipping or not? If not what is the shipping for those of us in the states (USPS Priority mail flat rate or what)? How much extra each for extra pins? Flat pin for solid slug the only other pin option?

Just trying to make up my mind about extra pin(s) and such and let you know and then get the payment all ready to go for you as soon as you issue the call for payment so it can go out to you ASAP.

You should probably start getting a count from the others on this group buy as to who wants extra pin(s) and if any of the buyers are outside the states and different shipping charges are going to apply. Probably time to put the call out for people lining up as to who wants extra pin(s) and who don't, since I assume your going to do a pin cutting run to fit the block run VERY shortly.

If you are going to offer any pins other then the stock profile hollow base pin and the flat solid cast pin. I already pointed out my highly desired pin profile in the 20ga. discussion thread, would be the same basic shape only with slightly different dimensions to fit this larger 12ga. size:

(Click on to open full size, small picture shown is link to full size)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7307/12061885666_e34ea57732_z.jpg (http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7307/12061885666_9bfe86af92_o.gif)



Would be willing to pay quite a bit extra for it and others as well might want to try that half length depth nearly square slightly belled plug that makes a thick strong skirt to the hollow base, that's the basic hollow base pin profile I've used on all my custom hollow base slug designs that I've either paid through the nose for a one-off from a custom mold maker or had an existing mold modified too with a custom pin.

If your only offering your standard stock hollow base profile and a flat pin to cast a solid, I totally understand. Just don't hurt to ask so I did.

[jmort]

That slug is a beautiful sight. I'm all teared-up. Would love to see one at the next Linebaugh Seminar and put through the paces in the Bone Box.

[RED333]

Looks great 338!!!

[338RemUltraMag]

OK to finalize a few questions,

1. I do take paypal.
2. You pay paypal fees
3. Shipping is extra. (flat rate boxes)
4. Shipping international is 19.95
5. I will be updating with extra pins.

Turbo,

Let me work on that drawing, I will include it for everyone else as an option. Also let me work on the pin price.

[turbo1889]

:bigsmyl2: :bigsmyl2:

[dverna]

.338

I wish it was lighter, I am not a hunter so my "big game" is two legged varmint or a bear in the garbage that gets too "friendly" - but I need something my 125 lb girlfriend can fire and practice with.

You have done a fine job. Do not rush anything out until you are sure it is right. No one will remember if you are 2-3 weeks late if the mold is perfect. They will remember if there are any glitches.

I really wish you luck on the project and hope we can get more stuff done.

I know a few of us might be interested in a .680 (or so) three cavity ball mold. jmortimer is getting a mold from Sharpshooter but I am not thrilled with his mold designs. We shall see how it works.

Again, good job and good luck!

Don Verna

[338RemUltraMag]

Don,

This mold with the hollow base will weigh in at 740 gr or less with the "turbo bell" which comes out to 1 3/4 oz not too bad for a 12 ga slug. Thanks for the kind words, I have delayed this mold for some time, now I hope to get this done and offer buys that cycle every 30 days and have lead times of 6 weeks or less.

Thanks again!

[turbo1889]

I put loose tolerances on the "Turbo bell" hollow base pin shape (I always try to be as generous as I can with tolerances and state them as limits, machinists seem to like me more when I do that, or dislike me less might be more like it.) If you run all the tolerances towards the end which increases the physical volume of that pin shape (upper limit on everything but the taper angle and the lower limit on that) and the displacement by my calculations is just a little bit more then the original round hollow base pin making the resulting slug slightly lighter weight, but not by much. If you run the tolerances all the way to the other end making the physical volume of the pin and its displacement as low as possible (lower limit on everything but the angle and the upper limit on that) then it swings the other way and the displacement by my calculations is just a little bit less then the original round hollow base pin making the resulting slug a little heavier weight.

The whole idea and reason behind me "Turbo bell" pin shape is to keep the wall thickness of the skirt at least 0.10" thick at all points and thus a very strong skirt that will distort little if any upon firing which in my experience allows for better accuracy. In order to accomplish this while at the same time keeping the weight down and keeping the balance correct it is important to only put just barely enough taper and rounding on the pin to make it release smoothly. My experience so far has shown me that 3-degrees of taper is the minimum amount of taper for a clean smooth release on a hollow base or hollow point pin unless the pin is very short and/or only soft lead alloys that shrink while hardening instead of stay the same or expand (like type-metal does). Anything less and you can get sticky pin release problems, since I know there are always tolerances and getting too tight with tolerances tends to make people mad at me I almost always specify a "3-degrees to 5-degrees" taper on my pins, but as close as possible to only 3-degrees of taper makes for less total weight of the slug while still keeping the skirt walls thick. Reason for the curving of the top lip edges is because that is needed to not get voids around the top of the pin during casting, just leaving the tip of the pin with them sharp edges can cause that problem, know that from experience too.

If it's too much of a hassle, not a problem I understand, and I can always have someone else make a pin for me if I'm the only one interested. It's a lot easier to find someone to make a custom pin then a custom mold. Especially a good high quality custom mold for a very reasonable price !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Edit: Of potential note, if you run the "Turbo bell" pin shape as I said with all the tolerances except the angle towards their upper end and use a minimum 3-degree angle you only have to lengthen it by a small smidgen, hardly a noticeable amount to get the total weight of the slug down to 710-grains even if cast from pure lead which is also known as a 1-5/8oz. or lighter load regardless of casting allow which there is a lot of lead shot donor load data for that payload weight in 3" 12ga. shells, more load data then what is readily available for a 1-3/4oz. weight payload. Just a thought. If you want me to calculate and draw that out I can do so, just have to use a lot narrow tolerances to hit a specific mark.

[338RemUltraMag]

The TURBO BELL is a go.

[338RemUltraMag]

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/joshaaronelli/ACE%20Mold%20Pins%20003.JPG (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/joshaaronelli/media/ACE%20Mold%20Pins%20003.JPG.html)

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/joshaaronelli/ACE%20Mold%20Pins%20002.JPG (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/joshaaronelli/media/ACE%20Mold%20Pins%20002.JPG.html)

Round pins are finished! What do yall think?

[jmort]

Awesome. Thank you for doing something no one else has done for us slug shooters.

[RED333]

O YEA!
Can you update pricing for the new bottom plug?
Heck, I will take both bottom plugs.

[jason f]

How does pin come out to drop slug without opening mold first.

[338RemUltraMag]

With such a heavy slug once the mold is opened the slug will pop right off of the pin

[Springfield]

I'll take mine with the Turbo bell plug, please. Don't know if it is better but turbo is so convincing!

[338RemUltraMag]

Got it, do you want a flat or round also?

[AZBrian]

Great - I'm not quite clear on all the pin options now but I'll likely be getting all of them for both molds. I like the drawing on post #116 very much. The "turbo bell" looks great.

[338RemUltraMag]

Great - I'm not quite clear on all the pin options now but I'll likely be getting all of them for both molds. I like the drawing on post #116 very much. The "turbo bell" looks great.

Turbo bell is post #116
Round is pictured above
Flat just casts a solid slug

[AZBrian]

Turbo bell is post #116
Round is pictured above
Flat just casts a solid slug

Thank you for the clarification. Please update me to add on "all pins" for each then. I'll be happy to have them all.

[turbo1889]

I'm in for a set of all three pins with my mold: $110 + 2 x $20 (two extra pins) + USPS priority flat rate S&H = very reasonable price for a good mold like this with all three pins in my opinion. Best price I can get for a custom pin made to fit by someone else after the fact is about twice that so I'm all in - full set of pins for me.

[Teddy (punchie)]

338 Joshua Nice looking mold. If i had a 12 R/B I be on this.

What are you looking at in recoil from this Slug.

Say an 8 pound gun.

I shot some Lyman 525 Sabots , well that mold sit in the draw. Recoil was just not friendly. Like being punched. I shooting any rifle is Okay, some hit hard, but that load in the sabot was just too much. We even took them, apart to see and weight everything, it was all right on.

[turbo1889]

Also, I really like the "solid capture" pin style you have chosen to use and have used custom and conversion hollow base molds with that style of pin before. Works really well in my experience once you get used to casting with it. It basically goes like this:

----- Fill Mold with good sprue puddle.
----- Wait till the sprue just frosts over.
----- Give pin handle about a 1/4 twist with the blocks still being held closed.
----- Cut the sprue.
----- Turn mold sideways and open it, finished casting with plug in its base will be sitting in the open sideways cavity of the lower block half.
----- Grab the pin handle and pick it up and holding it sideways or even at a slight up angle and move it over your towel if air-cooled casting or water bucket if water dropping.
----- Gently tip the pin down and let the slug slide off the pin and gently come to rest on the towel or drop into the water bucket.

Absolutely not rejects do to dents or dings due to the slug knocking against the blocks when they are opened or as a result of the impact of falling out of the mold into the collection area !!! Most normal molds including many hollow base pin molds the boolit/slugs release from the mold can be a rather violent drop but with a captured pin like this it pushes you towards using the methodology of turning the mold sideways so when you open it the one block half swings up and away leaving the other block half level on its side or at a slight down angle with the finished boolit/slug laying in the half cavity all nice and pretty and snug as a bug in a rug and just gently lift it out by the pin and then gently tip the pin down and let it slide off of the pin gently onto the towel or into the water drop bucket. NO REJECTS DUE TO DENTS AND DINGS !!! If your good enough caster using that kind of set-up you can get almost a perfect 100% production with absolutely no rejects or culls once the mold is warmed up and your casting at a smooth easy pace. Yes, sometimes with certain pin shapes and alloy combinations the boolit will want to stick to the pin and not just slide off nice and easy, this is why you give the pin a slight 1/4 twist or so before opening the blocks. Often once the mold is fully warmed up, especially if you are casting with a softer alloy and/or have a high quality beautifully smooth pin surface (such as pictured above) you can omit that step and the slug will slide off the pin without it with zero fuss or or it only takes giving the pin handle a tap on the top with your index finger while holding it between your thumb and middle finger when you tip the pin down to let the slug gently slide off the tip of the pin into your collection area.

Yes, some molds with a Lyman style hollow base pin that is not a captured pin can also be cast using this same kind of methodology of using the pin to gently lift the casting out of the mold and gently slide it off the pin into the collection area but without a hard captured pin most people wouldn't even think of doing that and just pull the pin out of the blocks and then open them up and let the finished casting violently drop out of the mold possibly banging against the inside faces of the blocks and sharp cavity edges in the process and then clunking down in the collection area possibly on top of another finished casting already there. Which of course results in culls due to dents and dings. Captured pin encourages you to do it right.

[Springfield]

Just the Turbo, please. Can't see me ever needing this as a solid.

[338RemUltraMag]

338 Joshua Nice looking mold. If i had a 12 R/B I be on this.

What are you looking at in recoil from this Slug.

Say an 8 pound gun.

I shot some Lyman 525 Sabots , well that mold sit in the draw. Recoil was just not friendly. Like being punched. I shooting any rifle is Okay, some hit hard, but that load in the sabot was just too much. We even took them, apart to see and weight everything, it was all right on.

I figure about 36 ft-lb with this slug an 8 lb rifle and 1200 fps

[turbo1889]

How recoil "feels" is also different. A heavy slug propelled to lower velocities doesn't "feel" the same as a lighter weight slug propelled to high velocities even if the recoil is mathematically the same. Big slug at lower velocities recoil feels like a hard shove, ligher slug at higher velocities has more of a "slap" to it. Obviously big slug at high velocities is the worst possible recoil and some of the hotter Lyman 525 loads can get into that kind of territory pushing that slug which I wouldn't classify as a total light weight pretty fast. Some of my IMR-4759 loads pushing slugs in the weight range of this group buy are ***** cats for recoil compared to some of my STEEL powder loads for the Lyman 525 as far as how the recoil "feels" the big boys at lower velocity with that gentle slow burn powder just shove you around a little, where as those 525 screamer loads try to slap you silly.

[338RemUltraMag]

I own and shoot a 416 Rigby so I dont think 36 lb is too bad, but it also has a lot to do with stock design and personal "feel"

[338RemUltraMag]

PM sent to all those who did not finalize there pin selections. Call for payment will be in 2 days or so.

[AlaskanGuy]

I wont be able to buy mine till the end of the month.... Will paypal mine...

[338RemUltraMag]

No problem

[RED333]

Payment call in a few days, COOL.

[Lonegun1894]

I am going to have to back out of this group buy due to something that came up. I hope another run will be made later, but I am going to have to miss out this time.

[338RemUltraMag]

Updated everyone's pin selections, waiting another day for any stragglers.

[stripercrazy]

round and turbo for me

[stripercrazy]

I'll take a flat pin too....ed

[338RemUltraMag]

I have sent the call for payment, if I have missed anyone please PM me.

[338RemUltraMag]

I cast with one of the molds I will say the Turbo Bell pin needs to be HOT HOT HOT. Pics to follow

[338RemUltraMag]

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/joshaaronelli/20140127_185000.jpg (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/joshaaronelli/media/20140127_185000.jpg.html)

I was casting without cleaning the mold, and using a bottom pour pot, there are a few wrinkles but the pins dropped em good.

left to right

turbo bell, round, flat

[AZBrian]

I have made payment - looking forward to trying these out!
-Brian

[turbo1889]

PayPal payment sent by me, past tense.

[longbow]

I may regret not getting in on this one but that's life.

I will certainly be interested in smoothbore results once you guys get casting, loading and shooting. Please post results. If things go well maybe I will organize a re-run.

Longbow

[338RemUltraMag]

Longbow,

I plan to keep as many of these in stock as my budget allows, I also have a website that I recently built so I also plan to keep them there.

[longbow]

That is good news.

Let's see how they do especially in smoothbores (I am stubborn). It is a little heavier than I wanted to but I could live with that if they shoot real well.

Thanks for the info.

Longbow

[338RemUltraMag]

No problem, it is a good bit of money to put on an idea.

All, anyone who pays by Monday will have there mold shipped by Tuesday

Thank you all for your support and patience!

[SP5315]

PayPal payment sent this evening.

[stripercrazy]

payed

[missionary5155]

Good evening
PP sent...

[338RemUltraMag]

Thanks all, I am thrilled to make this happen, I hope to make you all many many molds in the future.

[RED333]

PP sent today
Thanks Much

[338RemUltraMag]

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj609/joshaaronelli/P1310018.JPG (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/joshaaronelli/media/P1310018.JPG.html)

Finishing up assembly

[338RemUltraMag]

Updated shipped list!

[RED333]

Thanks for the update

[338RemUltraMag]

They all went out priority, should be arriving by tomorrow for some of the closer guys.

[AlaskanGuy]

Hey Ultramag.... I think I see my very own mold in this pic...

95821

Isn't mine the one on the top left hand corner, second from the left??????? You see it??? Its the real purty one with the extra shine???

[smilie=1:

[338RemUltraMag]

I think so, I hope I got the right one in your box!

[stripercrazy]

I got mine today, it looks great.....I got 3 pins so I paypaled ya 25 more bucks....I said 2 then 3, payed for 2 got 3, lol so I sent 25 more....thanks ed

[338RemUltraMag]

Please post up your thoughts and reviews of this mold, you are the first owner of the first buy of the first design we have ever ran.

[AlaskanGuy]

Wow.... First of the first.....could i send mine back and get you to engrave your signature??. Might really increase in value when you get to be rich and famous... [smilie=1:

Cant wait to get mine... Yeeee haw

[stripercrazy]

lol ok, I've got maybe a 12 doz molds and by far this ones the best built one, you did a great job on it. the pins look great with nice wood handels...I'm going to wait to I get some 100 % lead to pour some slugs...but I'm super happy, and thanks for letting me get in on this,I look forward on getting into more...maybe a .678 roundball or hollow point slug....but please keep me posted on anything you got in the works...thanks ed...

[SP5315]

I received mine this afternoon. I must say that some top notch machining went into this, and it is a beauty. I have this one and a 45 mold from Miha to break in tomorrow. I'm looking forward to your future efforts.

[AZBrian]

I received both of my molds today. Very nice finish. I have some suggestions for improvement and some things to do prior to first use. Short on time so more detail later. Just a quick picture to show the first slugs that I cast. Had some issues so had to cut the casting session short (more later on that).

Used Turbo Bell pin. Weight ranged from 730gr to 743gr. Those that completely filled out were 743gr.

Here is the pic (click for larger view):
95968

[RED333]

Mine came in, gona have to wait a bit to cast.
Thanks Much!

[338RemUltraMag]

Guys, please heat cycle the molds, this helps to set the alignment pins. Mine are pressed into the blocks and also have a set screw as added insurance.

This is our first mold so please PM me if there are ANY and I mean ANY issues.

[338RemUltraMag]

I spoke with Brian on the phone, the smaller Lee pots are a close fit with about 1/4 inch to spare. I epoxied the pins to the balls, but I may have to pin them if they become loose.

[AlaskanGuy]

Wooooo hoooooo... I got mine today.... And I was right, it WAS the shiney one.... Very very purty... I got the wrong pin though.... I got he turbo pin, but its all good... Cant wait to cast with it tomorrow.... The dang iceworm parade is tomorrow though.... Sooooo will have to make a hour to at least get a couple slugs out and mic them.... And of course there is a matter of a certain date that my wife made.... Sheesh... Darn women.... Dont she know I got a new mold?????

AG

[AlaskanGuy]

Here are my first.....

96029

[338RemUltraMag]

It appears the epoxy has failed two guys said they cam loose, I will pay for return shipping so I can pin handles on. Speaking to a few different guys if you send them back I can also change the size of the handle if it is too big.

Also, I will supply a spring washer for the sprue plate.

[TX.shotgun01]

Got mine in today can't wait to cast with it
Thanks again for making them for us sluggers

Tx.shotgun01

[AZBrian]

My second round of casting went much better. I learned a few things casting the first round. All slugs came out perfect on the second round (slug filled out around pin perfectly).

Here is a picture of a couple slugs with the round pin and the turbo bell pin:

96049

Some comments/suggestions:
The mold produces very nice/clean slugs
The slug casts out right at .734 with WW (don't know exact percentages of my aloy)
The slug with round pin weighs in at about 735gr with the alloy I am using
The slug with turbo bell pin weighs in at about 740gr with the alloy I am using

The round pin drops the slugs much easier than the turbo bell pin but if the pin is hot enough, the turbo bell will drop off. Here is my learning and trick: I could not get the pin hot enough from casting speed and high melt temp alone. Between each cast, I placed the tip of the pin into the melt for 10 seconds, then placed in back in the mold and dropped more lead into the mold. The mold kept plenty hot and the slug dropped off the pin with ease. I didn't need to do this with the round pin. Any maybe you better casters don't need to do what I did with the turbo bell but that is what worked for me.

The alignment pins in the mold worked their way in after a while and, at that point, the mold wouldn't align perfectly. I know they are pressed in and further have a set screw on them, but it is happening on mine after about 50 slugs. I have two molds and it happened to both. The first mold I just cleaned, pre-heated, and started casting. The second mold I thermal cycled - hot, cool down, hot, cool down, hot, cool down, cast... The pins still pushed in on my second mold, although they took longer than the first mold. Maybe it needed more thermal cycling. Maybe the pins need to be fit tighter. Here is a pic:

96058

The turbo bell/round/flat pins are very nicely made and come with a round ball of ~1.9" in diameter. They are easy to handle. The mold, with pin/ball installed, fits under my Lee bottom pour pot with about 3/8" to spare from the pour spout to the spru plate. That actually makes it nice in that I can just rest the mold/ball on the base of the Lee pot under the pour spout. I am not sure what other bottom pour pots are like and how much room there is. It worked for me. One suggested improvement that I have for the pin/ball assembly - pin them together somehow. One of my two turbo bell pins came out of the ball fairly easily when hot. While the round pins drop the slugs with ease, the turbo bell pin seems reluctant to drop them at times and I had to give some downward shakes to encourage them to depart. One time, the pin went right along with the slug. I'd also like the option of being able to rotate the pin while still in the mold. This won't work as it is now - the handle just rotates around the pin. So pinning the shank to the handle would improve things for me.

I see the comment on including a spring washer for the spru plate - I was thinking the same thing.

That said, I really like the mold. There isn't anything else like it. I need to sort out the mold's alignment pin creep and figure out how to pin the base pin shank to the handle, and all will be perfect.

[338RemUltraMag]

Brian,

Do me a favor and tighten down the set screws on the alignment pins, If this does not resolve the issue I will pay to ship em back fix it also, I can pin those balls. It was a total oversight on my end to use an epoxy and not a mechanical catch.

[RED333]

I have not cast with mine yet, will make sure to check the set screws after I get the mold up to temp.
Experience is something you get just after you need it. LOL

[AlaskanGuy]

Mine dropped at around 748 gr, and measured around .732....

[RED333]

Check the set screws before 1st heat, let the mold get hot and sure enough they were loose.
Letting the mold cool now, gone get a few cast tonight, come hell or high water.
O wait, I am on my side of the creek, all is good.

[357maximum]

Thems sure are one ornry looking chunk of lead....poor ol bambi does not stand a chance. :mrgreen: LOTSA-WAP

[338RemUltraMag]

Would anyone like to explain why they are getting loose as they get hot?

A circle will contract when hot and a solid pin expands.

Red if you need it fixed I will take care of it.

[RED333]

No need to worry, after the 2nd heat cycle they stayed tight.
A circle will get bigger when it gets hot, not smaller, but no worries.
Cast a few, well about 20 and all came out at .732 to .733 in dia.
720 to 725 grains in weight, I am using straight WW.
Great mold, I love it.
Now to load a few and see how my Mossy slug gun and Saiga like them.
Did find that if you twist the pin as the lead cools it will drop a lot better.
Good tip on dunking the pin for 10 seconds ever so often.

[longbow]

I don't think you are right on the circle contracting thing. The Aluminum mould block will expand in all directions as it heats so I believe the material around those holes expands making the hole bigger and aluminum expands more than steel.

You need a good press fit to keep those pins tight. My take anyway.

Longbow

[RED333]

I would like to thank 338 for making a great slug mold.
The man took on a job that I would not have done, for a first mold,
YA DONE GOOD, REAL GOOD!!!

[338RemUltraMag]

I don't think you are right on the circle contracting thing. The Aluminum mould block will expand in all directions as it heats so I believe the material around those holes expands making the hole bigger and aluminum expands more than steel.

You need a good press fit to keep those pins tight. My take anyway.

Longbow

I know when I cut steel molds I need my cavity slightly larger than expected diameter so it will drop correct when it gets hot, I did press these in but it may need more press, I did not want to damage the blocks by pressing too much.

Anyway, I will fix them no matter what.

[longbow]

I would figure you need a good half thou or better press fit but would have to work out the relative expansions at casting temperature.

Something that might make an easy fix is to tin the steel pins with silver solder then skim them to whatever increase in diameter is needed, then press them in. Not sure how difficult the pins are to make with CNC equipment so maybe not a problem to make new pins but if it is the silver solder might save a bit of effort and make a good fix.

Regardless, the slugs look good and I am looking forward to some smoothbore range tests. I might yet spring for one of these babies if they shoot well from smoothbore. I think the guys shooting rifled bores will be very happy with it.

So, someone get out there and start shooting! Post pics!

Longbow

[AlaskanGuy]

I went out to the range today to peek around for brass, but it was very cold out there... Car thermo said 10... Call me a sissy, but i just cant get into shooting when its cold like that. 30 is ok... 25, i bundle up but dont shoot for long... Less then that, i just dont enjoy it at all.

[Tx reloader72]

Got mine in the mail. Great looking mold. It has been properly cleaned (not that it was dirty) and sent to the oven for heat cycling. Will be a couple days before get to cast with it.

[Teddy (punchie)]

""Would anyone like to explain why they are getting loose as they get hot?

A circle will contract when hot and a solid pin expands.

Red if you need it fixed I will take care of it. "", 338

""I don't think you are right on the circle contracting thing. The Aluminum mould block will expand in all directions as it heats so I believe the material around those holes expands making the hole bigger and aluminum expands more than steel.

You need a good press fit to keep those pins tight. My take anyway.""

Longbow


I would add that AL takes up heat in a different way almost like it sucks it up. Circle will get larger by .003-.005 any way.

I looking at it from what I would look into or think about trying first. Freeze pins, in block make hole .005 under size with a little relief at edge to start the pin press fit. Maybe warm block 400 degs. and go to .010 undersize on hole and freeze pin, has to be a magic temps and size to get a good press fit.

Teddy

[338RemUltraMag]

Teddie, that makes sense as I used a .003 compression with the pins and when it gets hot it would allow a slip fit.

I am going to work on the ones headed back and see what we can do here.

[AZBrian]

Anyone load these yet? I should probably post this in the 'casting for shotguns' category... I am interested in what some of you experienced slug loaders come up with for loads. I have the least amount of experience loading for shotgun - much more in pistol/rifle. I have a lot of Herco powder and 2-3/4" hulls so am starting with this. I am sure there is a better powder, and I should probably be using a 3" hull, but I have started with the above and loaded 15 with varying loads and will try them this weekend.

[725]

Got my mold last week. Ice & snow have kept me from power and the net. Just back on. Tooooooooooooooooo cold to cast, now. but soon! Interested in load data & results.

[AZBrian]

Had a chance today to shoot some loaded shells. I'll share what I did, but understand that I am very inexperienced loading slugs. I just used what I had and worked up some loads. Also, I didn't have a chrono so I can only comment on accuracy. That said, I am very happy so far.

I used some 2-3/4" hulls with 5/8" brass bottoms (tallest brass bottoms I had)
I started with 30gr of Herco and worked up to 36gr in 2gr increments
I put a gas seal over the powder, a 1/2" card wad over the gas seal, and the slug (turbo bell) over that. Shell was star crimped. That stack was used because... well, it put the slug in the right place for a good crimp.

I shot this out of a Remington 1100 smooth bore.
All loads seemed to shoot equally as well as far as accuracy goes. I was able to put 3 rounds touching each other at 25 yards for each of the loads. That was all the space/distance I had today and I only have a front bead sight - I was happy with this. I should say that the holes were perfectly round so the slug was flying straight at 25 yards out of my smooth bore. Point of impact for the 36gr Herco loads was a good 2" higher, compared to the 30gr. So my feeling is that 30gr is on the low side. But if I go with Herco as the powder, I am going to need higher brass. There was no signs of overpressure with the 36gr Herco and components I used. That may be obvious to an experienced loader but I wasn't sure what to expect. With a 12S4 plastic shot wad and 1oz Lee slug, 36gr of Herco is great for me...

Anyway, that is my report, such as it is. Probably not much help. Hopefully someone else that knows what they are doing will post what their loads are.

96691

Brian

[AlaskanGuy]

Hey brian.... Nice job on getting something worked up.... Having a dang blizzard around here... No way I can get to the range to shoot anything.....

So tell me... How was the recoil with the herco??? Did you cast yours with pure lead??? And were you able to find the slug you shot??? What sort of choke is on your gun?

I will also be loading with 2 3/4 hulls, but mine will be cut down 3 inchers and hopefully roll crimped.... If my crimper ever shows up.... No hurry for me though, as its just too dang cold to get out to the range... But if I wait 15 min, te weather will prolly change...

aG

[longbow]

Off the top of my head I am going to say that seems like a pretty steep load of Herco under a 740 gr. slug.

Did you start with a recipe out of a manual?

I just looked up Herco on the Alliant website and the heaviest shot load they list is 1 3/8 oz. at 32.5 grs. Granted. slugs tend to run lower pressures for same weight as shot but 1 3/8 oz. is only 601 grs.

Since you say you are an inexperienced shotshell loader, I should say that you cannot depend on pressure signs like for metallic cartridge when reloading shotshells. By the time you see flattened primers or get sticky extraction, you are well over safe pressures.

I will take a look for any other load data I may have for heavy slugs to double check but I am betting that is a hefty load you are shooting.

Play but play safe!

Longbow

[AZBrian]

Thank you for the feedback, Longbow. I couldn't find a load out of a manual for this weight for Herco. I had found some posts on-line a while back for 1-1/2oz loads using up to 36gr of Herco so I thought to start at 30gr and work up. I must say, I was a bit nervous not knowing what to expect with the 36gr. I was looking at the primer, hull, and brass base swell and things looked okay but, as you suggest, things are not the same as with metallic cartridges - I may be too high. I have slug loading manuals and looked on-line - can't find anything for this powder and that weight. Other powders seem to be prefered at heavier loads at higher velocities. So I may not have been too safe. I will appreciate anyone's direction and feedback on a good, safe load.

[AZBrian]

Hi AG,
It is nice being in my part of Arizona this time of year. Can do pretty much anything outside right now. Summer is a different story... no fun then.

The recoil with the 30gr charge was stout. The recoil with the 36gr charge was very stout - kicked more than any other load I have shot in 12ga with this gun. But being shot out of a semiauto, it isn't too much, and I'd be fine to shoot quite a bit with even the heavy load. Not sure I'd be up for many shots out of a pump/single shot with the 36gr load. I know that is a very subjective thing to say.

I didn't cast with pure lead as I am out of that right now. I thought that I was casting with WW at first but it turns out I was casting with 95/5/5 (what I had in the pot last time). I didn't try to retreive a slug. I had about 30min to shoot and couldn't set up anything to do that - just paper target. I will try this this weekend but it may not tell the story folks are interested in as the slug will be on the harder side.

My Remington 1100 is a tac 2 so it has a fixed improved cylinder choke - pretty good for slugs.

[AlaskanGuy]

Hmmmm i envy your nice weather...

I dont have a cylinder choke... All my guns are full choke.... So I am not sure what to expect when i can actually get to the range...

[longbow]

AZBrian:

I can't help out much with loads for heavyweights. One of the big issues I find with slug shooting is load data... or more correctly lack thereof.

If you are shooting 1 oz. slugs there is enough good load data around to make do with most powders and components ~ you can almost always find a recipe. Once slug weights get up past about 500 grs. I find there is a lack of good load recipes. The Lyman 525 gr. sabot slug helped out there as those recipes can be used for equal weight slug. Beyond that there is not a lot. I do have some load data for 1 3/8 oz. slugs but I believe that is as heavy a any of my manuals go.

What I have done for slugs up to 800 grs. is to use equal weight shot data. The only powder I have used for this is Blue Dot, loading for slugs from 575 gr. to 800 grs. I had no issues doing this but generally slugs run lower pressures than shot due to less bore drag so they would not likely be high performance slug loads. At 800 grs. does that matter?

AlaskanGuy:

I would not be shooting this slug through a full choke gun... at least not holding it. This is effectively a solid slug as the nose portion is solid for almost 1/2 length of the slug unlike a typical hollow base Foster slug which is designed to swage through a choke and has the cavity running right up past the shoulder.

I have been warned by some with more experience than me not to shoot a full bore round ball through my I/C choke and this is orders of magnitude worse than that.

I have actually been thinking of using an old beater parts gun I have to test out the full bore round ball through a full or modified choke but if I do the gun will be tied to a tire and fired remotely.

Again, I would not fire that slug through any choke much less a full choke without testing for safety first.

Just my $0.02.

Longbow

[AlaskanGuy]

I think that is a good suggestion there longbow.. I have a old bolt jc-higgins smothbore that I thought about cutting the choke off of...... I done know quite how long the choke is though... I have done some research and everything says that the choke should be gone if 4 inches is removed.... So that is what I may do... I am also planning to do this to an old 410 so i can turn it into a round ball gun. Also looking for some sights to mount on it after I cut the barrel. Any suggestions would be accepted...

AG

[longbow]

Just drop that slug in and wherever it stops is where the choke starts... oh yeah, this slug maybe over bore diameter by a bit so you may have to use a dowel and mallet to drive it through but it shouldn't be too difficult. It will definitely stop hard at the choke.

Choke length depends on how the choke is made, partly, and maybe who makes it too. Swaged chokes in my experience are pretty short ~ maybe a couple of inches but my Browning full choke must be at least 3" long. That one was machined/reamed not swaged.

Since most shotguns have long barrels, any I have cut down had way more than the choke removed when they became slug guns.

I wouldn't butcher a nice gun but I have several old single shots I picked up for this very purpose.

For sights on my current single shot, I used the front site of an old Mossberg .22 and a flip up rifle sight for the rear sight. The front sight looks a lot like many military sites with a center blade and side wings. The rear sight I filed to a concave profile to match the barrel diameter (it is a dovetail sight). Both are soft soldered in place and work just fine.

Not real fancy but functional and easy to do.

Longbow

[AlaskanGuy]

I have many other slugs that I can measure with.... But will try the big slug to see what happens...

AG

[scrubber]

Do NOT shoot thes slugs through a choked barrel!!
(At least when you have ahold of it!)

The main reason this slug mold is special is the diameter the slugs cast at.

It is a true full-bore slug.

All commercial 12 gauge slug molds available cast WAY under .730.

They set that dimension for liability reasons, people blow guns up when shooting full bore slugs through chokes.

Be careful!

Dave

[longbow]

I agree that these slugs should not be shot through a choke but not because they are full bore, because they have a solid nose section that will not collapse when it meets a choke.

My Lyman Foster slug mould does cast well undersize at 0.705" but at firing the slug swells to fill the bore... at least when cast of soft lead. I have recovered slugs from deep snow and they are bore size after firing, not 0.705" anymore. That means it is a full bore slug if it meets a choke but it is a thin walled full bore slug that swages down easily.

It is not a problem shooting a bore size slug through a choke if the slug is designed to accommodate the choke by collapsing/swaging as Foster slugs do or with ribs that collapse like with Brenneke.

Solid slugs without ribs or full bore balls on the other hand ~ very bad idea to shoot through a choke.

One reason I have been trying to come up with a home made slug that is robust but choke friendly is that I dread ever having any full bore solid slug finding their way into a choked gun. It is easy to say "Mark your ammo" but stuff happens.

Longbow

[scrubber]

Longbow,

Well said. I agree with you completely!

[AZBrian]

I found this table that shows choke types and their cooresponding reductions in bore size:

Choke......................Yardage...........Choke Restriction (difference between bore and choke diameter)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cylinder....................< 20...............0
Skeet........................22.5...............0. 005 of an inch
Improved Cylinder.......25.................0.010
Light Modified.............30.................0.015
Modified.....................32.5..............0.0 20
Improved Modified.......35................0.025
Light Full.....................37.5.............0.030
Full............................40+..............0 .035
Extra Full....................40+..............0.040

Before this thread, I had assumed that my gun had an open barrel, being a TAC model - when AG asked and I looked it up, I was suprised. For my choke type, a restriction of 0.01 isn't a lot but considering the full bore diameter of this slug, now I am even more nervous. So looks like a bad idea.

[scrubber]

Sounds like my situation. This is the first time I have bought a mold with no gun fit to shoot it out of. Nothing like shopping for a gun to go with a boolit!



I found this table that shows choke types and their cooresponding reductions in bore size:

Choke:.....................Yardage...........Choke Restriction (difference between bore and choke diameter)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cylinder....................< 20...............0
Skeet........................22.5...............0. 005 of an inch
Improved Cylinder.......25.................0.010
Light Modified.............30.................0.015
Modified.....................32.5..............0.0 20
Improved Modified.......35................0.025
Light Full.....................37.5.............0.030
Full............................40+..............0 .035
Extra Full....................40+..............0.040

Before this thread, I had assumed that my gun had an open barrel, being a TAC model - when AG asked and I looked up, I was suprised. For my choke type, a restriction of 0.01 isn't a lot but considering the full bore diameter of this slug, now I am even more nervous. So looks like a bad idea.

[AlaskanGuy]

Yep... I feel the pain.... This is why I am gunna cut down an old jc higgins that my dad got me when I was a kid... It never gets used... If I cut the barrel down just enough to take out the full choke, and put some rifle sights on it, it will get real popular real fast around here... I have several nice pump guns that will still fire at ducks and such, but i am gunna cut this bolt gun back.... I have a mini chop saw with a clamp attached that I can use... I normally use it for making arrows, and will work awesome but a bit slow on a shotgun i think... But having the clamp inline with the barrel should be a major plus....
96962

Just need to figure out what sights to use and how to get them mounted...

Kinda funny building a gun just for this slug...lol I did take one of the slugs I cast and put it down the barrel to see how far it would fall, but it just went to the end of the chamber and that was it... But same for the brenneke slug.... It stopped at the same spot... Barrel length is 27in as it sits, i am thinking of taking it down to 22in....that shouldn't hurt things at all...

AG

[longbow]

My Browning BPS slug barrel with I/C choke measures 0.710" at the muzzle so tight compared to that chart (I/C = 0.010" from 0.729" bore is 0.719").

I made an assumption when I bought my 0.715" ball mould... oops! The balls got to about 1/2 way through the choke when dropped down the barrel.

Since BPI sells or at least sold 0.715" balls I asked them about shooting 0.715" balls through a 0.710" choke and the response was "Brownings are strong guns, it should be okay". Others have advised me not to shoot them, at least if cast from anything other than dead soft lead. I think swaging that ball by 0.005'" would be fine but I have not wanted to take the chance. Not with that gun anyway.

It is always best to check before doing things that may result in damage or injury.

Longbow

[turbo1889]

I've got my mold unwrapped (Finally !!!). I got the package in the mail at the beginning of last week but last week was so full I didn't get a chance to unwrap it much less try it out and am about to head out to the shop and fire up the melting pots and heat cycle the mold a couple times as suggested. Should have both casting and initial load testing report by tonight to post.


---------------------------------------------


As to the heap hot load of Herco:

Gun powders in custom load development are like women each with their own temperaments. Some of them are just looking for a reason to kill you and you have to be really careful with them. Others will put up with all kinds of nonsense and still not turn on you.

Lucky it was Herco you built those hot loads with, she is one of the ones that will let you get away with more then some of the others especially if you use old style card wads instead of a modern plastic wad over the powder.

If you had pulled that same stunt with a couple other powders you would be a hurting unit.

Powders I would encourage for use with this slug would be Blue Dot, Steel, IMR-4756, HS-6, and LongShot.

And then if your running a bull barrel gun that can take a pressure curve that stays higher further down the bore IMR-4759, Reloader-17, and LilGun have potential as well.

My first loads are going to be Blue Dot for initial load development and then switch over to Steel which is Blue Dots higher strung sister.


-----------------------------------


As to "big fat solid slug fired through constrictive choke" if you stick with soft lead its amazing what works.

Me personally so long as its not a choke tube but a fixed choke swagged into the guns barrel I'm totally comfortable firing even a full solid with flat sides and no relief grooves at all through a Skeet or IC choke (0.005" or 0.010" constriction respectively) provided its soft lead. And a slug with narrow bands and good relief grooves I'll fire slugs through up to IC choke cast from 50/50 WW/soft mix or equivalent hardness range lead mix and run a soft lead slug with good relief grooves through up to a modified choke without batting an eye.

Reason I'm comfortable doing that is because quite a few years ago when I first got into this whole slug thing and I heard all the warnings about firing full bore solids through guns with chokes I took a cheap old $50 single shot 12ga. junker with a fixed full choke and a Saiga-12 with externally threaded choke tubes that I intended to cut the barrel down to tactical length of just barely over 18" anyway (and the worst that could happen is I messed up the threads since unlike american style choke tubes which thread inside the barrel Russian Saiga shotgun tubes thread onto threads cut on the outside of the barrel and the choke tube extends forward making the barrel longer just like external thread of barrels is used on military weapons for silencer, flash hider, and grenade launcher mounting and thus you can split a Saiga choke without worries of splitting the whole barrel and at worst you just goober up the threads on the outside of the barrel) and I deliberately tested them to failure firing harder and harder alloy full bore slugs through them of solider and solider construction down to solid flat sided lead cylinders cast from type metal plus a dash of more tin and some copper sublimed into the alloy (over 30-BHN without being brittle, and I know that's not the correct term but copper when alloyed with lead doesn't melt into the lead but rather very slowly dissolves into the mix in a chemical process similar to ice sublimation).

Long story short I learned that it was possible to split a choke (did that with the two most constrictive of the Saiga-12 chokes) and/or peen out a choke (did that with the cheapo gun with its choke constriction swagged into the end of a barrel) until the choke isn't as constrictive as it once was. But it takes a lot harder and stronger slug then most people thing it does and if you keep the lead soft its amazing how much you can squeeze down a slug in a choke with no damage.

Realize of course that your mileage may very and ultimately its your decision but I will be casting this slug from "pure-ish lead" (salvaged/recycled not totally pure but close and soft enough you can cut grooves in it with fingernail) and my first test firing will be firing them through a smooth bore pump gun with an IC choke swagged into the end of its barrel that I've fired many other full bore slugs of soft alloy through and the choke constriction is still the same 0.012" it always has been. Will post results later today.

Now I probably wouldn't go cast them of hard WW alloy and then shoot them through a full choke gun unless I was doing another "test to failure" experiment (and I wasn't holding the guns when I did that test). I'm not stupid. But soft lead in an IC, not something that even registers on my radar personally.

Ultimately, its your choice but that's my feelings on it.

[turbo1889]

Okay, finished my first casting/loading/shooting session:




Casting:

First off, I did not have any problems with my alignment pins backing off on me. But reading the issues some others seem to have had and looking at the way the blocks are designed this is my thoughts as to how one could go about fixing that issue (for future mold runs):

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7327/12601067814_a3fc88bcef_z.jpg


Considering the set-screws are already part of the A.C.E. mold block design just putting a groove in the pin at the right spot to match up with the set-screw locations when spinning them out on the CNC lathe from a length of bar-stock (I'm ASSuming that is how they are made). The set-screws would then have a positive grab on the pin. I intend to do something similar on the sprue plate hold down bolt. Which is standard operating procedure for me with sprue plate hold down bolts namely to note their position when the tension is right and then back them out and grind a little flat on their side at the right height for the set screw and then re-assemble and tighten down the set screw on the flat to provide a solid lock point so there is zero possibility of the sprue hold down bolt rotating and changing the tension.

I've got to buy another set of hex wrenches though since one of the small ones that I'm missing happens to be the size used for the set screws on this mold.

Which comes to the second issue I had with the mold (please excuse the small size of the following pictures, couldn't find my good digital camera on short notice so I had to use the utterly pathetic camera on my cell phone where I have to shrink the pictures down that small to keep them from looking totally grainy awful which is what they look like unless you shrink them down that small so the grainy doesn't show up):

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3674/12600143215_443680fd34_o.jpg

As you can see I had a little issue with some scratching due to sharp edge of sprue plate. Should have checked before starting with the mold and not being all excited and trying to get casting right away. Smoothed the bottom edges of sprue plate as best as possible without removing it (got to get that allen wrench size to fit the small set screws). It looks worse then it is, just cosmetic, doesn't effect casting performance just annoys me because I messed up the "pretty mold" factor. Suggest you all check the bottom edges and corners of your sprue plates and smooth them with some sandpaper before casting, something I should have known better to not skip but I've gotten spoiled.

Epoxy failed in short order on the two hollow base pins as reported by others already, but in some ways it actually worked out for the better for me on those two pins since I quickly adapted with a small pair of lock-jaws to continue my casting session:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3787/12600568324_a4011d384c_o.jpg

And for getting the slug to drop off the hollow base pins this actually works better:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3744/12600568844_5c51897345_o.jpg

Just a tap the lock-jaws which formed an L-handle on the edge of the container with a flick of the wrist and the slug drops right off the hollow base pin. Even the turbo bell hollow base pin which I do at this point have to apologize to you all that at least with soft lead and these aluminum hollow base pins do indeed tend to act a little sticky. All of my existing custom molds with this kind of pin shape the pins are steel or in one case Bronze/Brass (not sure which but its one or the other). No aluminum pins in this shape up until this mold and I agree it does tend to stick with soft lead compared to the round pin. Didn't seem to make any difference when casting with WW alloy those dropped off both pins slick as butter with just a slight tap when casting from hard alloy.

Anyway saved out a few examples and didn't tumble lube and load them like the rest for pictures (tried to find the good digital camera but still stuck with the pathetic cell phone camera):

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7419/12600249583_078b275889_o.jpg

The three pictures to the left of the red divider line in that composite are all soft pure-ish lead, two round HB pin ones and six turbo bells. Pictures of filled out bases and then all together in a side shot. The three pictures to the right of the red divider line in that composite are all hard WW alloy, two solids and one each of the round and turbo bell hollow bases, all four together in the side shot.


For casting from hard WW alloy the molds basic construction and materials works really nice. Unfortunately, when casting from pure-ish lead I had to run my pot full out "gold sheen" hot to get full and complete fill out on every cast for both the round and turbo bell hollow base pins anything less and I didn't get perfectly formed slugs. This unfortunately makes the aluminum mold and pin get hot enough to be "squeaky" as I call it.

I did not attempt to cast with the prescribed 30:1 alloy and that very well may work better then pure (or pure-ish in my case) lead with no tin. Although I did cast some with hard WW alloy my main focus was on casting them with my soft nearly pure lead since I knew that would be the greatest challenge for an aluminum mold like this. I suspect it might cast a little easier if the hollow base pin was not aluminum and I've got one steel pin I think I can modify to fit well enough for a test run and may do so.




Loading:

Didn't bother with an pictures of this since I was just loading simple test loads in a variety of shells I had laying around with different components because I wanted to "get-er done" and get out to shoot them before I lost too much daylight. Loads were all Blue Dot loads with charges in the 28-35 grain range except for the solids cast from hard WW alloy that I intended to fire in my big rifled barrel boomer gun. I used heavy 90+ grain Ed Hubel Reloader-17 charges for those loads in 3-1/2" shell casings.




Shooting:

Well, the hollow base versions both shoot straight out of smooth bore guns. Fired the soft lead ones in several guns with minimal choke constriction on their barrels, Light Modified choke measuring 0.715" at the muzzle being the tightest.

Fired hard WW ones out of my true cylinder smooth bore guns including my Saiga-12 which didn't seem to like the more powerful 3" loadings with this slug and even the magnum gas setting seemed to be a little hard on the gas auto loader system, with this heavy slug even though in its hollow base variants its good to go for smooth bore guns with a lot more weight then you commonly find smooth bore capable slugs in (which is the main reason I went for this mold since this offers me new heavy weight smooth bore bear gun options) if your gun is an auto-loader pushing this big heavy behemoth tends to be a little hard on the auto loading action, would probably be okay in some of those 3-1/2" shell auto loaders that some of the duck hunters swear by and being able to take a steady diet of heavy magnum loads but would't want to put a steady full power magnum load diet of these on any regular auto loader. My Saga-12 did fine with the lighter loads down near the 28-30 grain charge level but she seemed a little stressed by the 35 grain charge level loads.

And fired off some of the solids in my rifled barrel gun.


Accuracy at 25-50 yards out of the smooth bore guns was about the same as other full bore hollow base slugs I have custom molds for and shoot out of them regularly. Basically pushing a bigger heavier slug with a bigger wider flatter nose with no noticeable reduction in accuracy = now I've got even better angry bear medicine in my arsenal.

I did get some noticeable reduction in accuracy compared to what some of my other full bore slugs are capable of when firing the solids out of my rifled barrel gun at 100-200 yards range. That big wide flat nose seems to start having some bucking issues further out compared to comparable slugs I have in my arsenal with more wedge shaped TC noses.

I took pictures of the targets with my pathetic cell phone camera before heading home from the range but the light was too dim and they didn't turn out http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/tears/t2327.gif !!! If I don't find my good dig. camera I may commit assault on cell phone shortly, which could get interesting since its an armored version that is supposed to survive things most cell phones can't, could end up ADW-firearm.

[turbo1889]

Long story short, as it sits right now I'm satisfied with the mold. I wouldn't consider it a mass production mold (not as in who how it was made but rather as in a mold capable of producing massive numbers of slugs like 6+ hour casting sessions turning out a production rate of over a 1,000 perfect final slugs in that time frame and doing that on a fairly regular basis) but rather as a purpose specific mold where I need 50-100 or so slugs of this particular design every once in a while.

I think I'm going to leave the two hollow base pins and possible the flat base pins with the wood handles off and try to rig up some kind of side bar handle to the ends of their stubs. Possibly a 6" length of aluminum tubing or angle stock or such that is lighter weight then the set of little lock jaws and permanently attached to each pin so I can still use the same method of tapping the L-handle over the lip of the container to drop the slug off the tip of the pin down into the container.

For a mold with full "production level" capabilities with soft pure-ish lead I think you would probably have to cut it in iron blocks with a steel pin for thermal reasons. Aluminum works but the thermal issues don't allow mass quantity production capabilities like some of my custom iron-block/steel-pin hollow base slug molds allow for.

Not a criticism directed at the mold maker. I knew it was going to be an aluminum block mold going in and that right of way with a hollow base mold I knew meant it wasn't going to be a production level capable mold with soft alloy. I think an L-handle set-up works better then the round wood ball handle set-up not sure how you could do that with reasonable cost on the mold makers end though and I didn't come up with the idea until the wood handle came loose and I started using the lock jaw pliers on the stub and realized how much more handy that actually was to drop the slug off the pins tip that way just by tapping the L-shaped handle over the edge of the catch container.

[338RemUltraMag]

I was awaiting your assessment of my mold, but to clarify one point. The pins are made from stainless steel not aluminum.

All in all I am changing the alignment pin system for further designs and will also be cutting steel molds.

As far as accuracy beyond 100 yds I think this design will closely follow a wadcutter boolit once it gets past 50 yds. It is just too blunt to be a "long range" slug.


I want to thank everyone for giving me the opportunity to make these molds, it is a learning experience and the knowledge I gained here is invaluable.

[AlaskanGuy]

Wow... Thanks turbo... Nice write up... We all needed a senior slugger to weigh in on this one....

I am still gunna cut that full choke off my bolt 12g just for this gun.... It is just too long as it is.... And i want to make it more of slugger....

When you get a chance, please post some of the component combo's that you are using, would love to hear about over powder and what sort of crimp and stuff like that... I have herco, unique, and 2400 to load with a 2 3/4 in gun... Any suggestions??? It will be a bit till I get out to shoot though... Just snowing to beat all here...

AG

[turbo1889]

@ 338RemUltraMag

Okay, I couldn't get a magnet to stick to the pins and they didn't heat blue and their electric conductivity seemed too high for stainless but was still slightly lower then the blocks. Thus I thought they must be a different harder alloy of aluminum (aluminum normally has significantly higher electric conductivity then steel especially stainless which tends to be less then normal steel).

Long story short I didn't know for sure what the pins were made of but based on sticking an Ohm's meter on them I thought they were a much tougher harder aluminum then the blocks, Ohm's meter didn't seem high enough for stainless. Future steel blocks will probably handle soft alloy better due to thermal conductivity differences compared to aluminum.

Now that I know they are stainless now it makes putting a simple L-handle on them much easier. I'll just grab a couple scrap chunks of thin wall small diameter tube stock from my home-made 304 stainless bicycle frame making stock cut to length and give it a couple zaps with some 1/16 stainless rod and I'll have that done in a jiffy !!!


@ AlaskanGuy

Powder charge, I used the old standby Blue Dot for my first paliminary loads except for the big bull barrel 3-1/2" super magnum loads with the solid slugs for my rifled barrel slug gun. Blue Dot charges varied from 28gr. to 35gr. depending on the exact load

I was basically experimenting with components and just loaded up a random assortment of 2-3/4 and 3" hulls I had laying around some with just card wads, some with 12S4 wads with the petals cut off, and some with both the 12S4 wads with petals cut off over the powder and then nitro cards on top of them before the slug, and then a few with various plastic gas seals and then nitro cards.

The tightest constriction gun I fired the soft lead hollow base ones through has an internal muzzle diameter of 0.715" and the tightest gun I fired the hard ones through has a 0.727" barrel but the squeeze down on that one takes place in the guns throat where the steel is nice and thick and the slug isn't up to full velocity but just started moving rather then at the end of the barrel in a choke moving at speed.

As to the powders you mentioned the first two you mentioned are generally considered too fast burning for this heavy of a slug. But Herco can be used to make sub-sonic loads if you do not use modern plastic wadding components and use just nitro cards/cork/felt/fiber wadding and keep the charges nice and low. 2400 works well as a heavy slug powder in the 20ga. but has ignition issues in the larger 12ga. size magnum primers are an absolute must along with good compression and extremely tight gas seal. If you can your paws on some 8-ga. industrial primers (AKA = core burner shotgun primers) then they in combination with 2400 powder make superb loads its just getting your hands on them is usually harder then just getting a different more suitable powder.

Long story short unfortunately none of the three powders you mention are ideal.


-------------------------------------


As to long range shooting with these slugs, couldn't resist the temptation to try some of the solid ones in the rifled barrel scoped slug gun with the big 3-1/2" super magnum bull barrel only loads. I figured due to the pretty blunt nose shape they wouldn't hold as accurate as more wedge shaped nose slugs but still wanted to try.

Main reason I was interested in this slug was to increase my "overkill" short range potential for smooth bore guns. Before this mold the heaviest slug I had that was smooth bore capable was just barely 1-3/8oz. and din't have near as big of flat solid "thumper" nose as this one does !!! You remember that "Do you feel lucky?" scene from the first Dirty Harry movie? Think the same thing only with a this slug loaded into a pump tactical shotgun instead of that medium sized wheel gun he had, that is what I bought this slug mold for, to be able to say the same thing with the same attitude to a 13'-square Kodiak if need be (and yes if its what's handy a 2-legged punk as well).

[longbow]

AlaskanGuy:

You might get a decent light to moderate load using Unique. Ross Seyfreid worked up a load for a 12 ga. Paradox gun using the original Kynoch style bullet of 730 grs. IIRC over 21.5 grs. of Unique. I don't remember velocity but can dig out the article to double check. It seems to me he was getting basically BP velocities of 1000 to 1100 FPS.

A difference though is that the Kynoch slug is sized to 0.001" under bore size so is a slip fit (very little bore friction) and it is not hollow base so the same load under your 740 gr. slightly over bore size hollow base slug may produce somewhat higher pressures.

It would not be a high performance load but it would be shooting... and I bet that slug would leave a mark when it hit something! I'll look out that article and post info.

I tend to avoid such heavy slugs due to lack of decent load data. There a few like turbo and Greg and of course Ed Hubel who have sorted out loads for the heavy weights but not a lot of published data.

Also good to see turbo has put the choke test to the test as it were. Probably saved me a gun. I know some have shot some large, hard, full bore slugs and balls through chokes but I have not been willing to try that with my Browning. I figured the 0.715" ball (even ACW) would swage down as there isn't much meat at the equator and it is only 0.005" oversize for the 0.710" I/C choke but having had one shotgun go to pieces in my hands, I tend to avoid questionable activities ~ that is another story that I posted a while ago to save others some mishaps.

Longbow

[AlaskanGuy]

Wow, thanks longbow... I cant wait to see whatcha have in that article.... I am gunna be cutting the barrel tomorow soon as the weather clears and i can get to town for the right cutoff blade for my chop saw.. Snowing like crazy right now... Sure dont look like it is gunna let up, but the weather guessers say it will.. I cut the barrel of my 410 today with my arrow chopper, and it worked great... Need to figure out sights and such next for both guns.....

AG

[turbo1889]

Okay, found the battery charger for my old 5-mp dig camera that although not nearly as nice or good as my good dig camera is way better then the trash camera on my cell phone. Re-took some photos of the slugs I saved out for photo shoots and didn't lube, load, and shoot:



Soft (Nearly Pure) Lead Hollow Base Slugs:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7292/12621050695_cfa703d4a5_c.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7404/12621481584_91d0c4122b_c.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2846/12621469364_39507704ff_c.jpg



Hard WW Alloy Slugs:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2850/12621477534_a6c16e2121_c.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7401/12621039155_cf858ba452_c.jpg




----------------------------------------------------

And then, Decided not to weld scrap pieces of stainless stock to the back ends of the pins directly but rather took an old screw-driver I had laying around and a cheap steel 1/4" size drill bit depth set collar and put the arc welder on the lowest setting and used part of a 1/16 6013 mild steel rod to weld the two together to make this new pin handle for the hollow base pins for this mold that the handles came off of. Not the prettiest weld I ever made but it is slightly tedious arc welding something this small together and especially not messing up the little steel collar with its set screw in the process:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5497/12621184023_c9b082493b_c.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7433/12621505184_08b555c0e4_c.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7444/12621509024_2663cec625_c.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/12621492544_09a6618f39_c.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/12621496844_ce77935f8b_c.jpg


As you can see I ground a little flat spot in the side of the pin shank for the set-screw on the collar to lock into nice and tight !!! Should work like a charm.



-----------------------------------------------------


Here are a couple short 10-second or so video clips to show how an L-shaped handle like this on the hollow base pins allows one to easily drop the the slug off the hollow base pin, even if it wants to stick by knocking the handle down over the edge of the catch container:

http://flickr.com/gp/54455625@N04/8o26y8
http://flickr.com/gp/54455625@N04/43WQ40

[turbo1889]

Oh, yah, forgot to mention. With soft nearly pure lead with no tin added my slugs came out at 0.732" diameter or so. Hard WW alloy slugs were 0.735" or so.

[longbow]

Good thing AlaskanGuy poked me, I had forgotten to look up the Ross Seyfried article.

The powder charge was indeed 21.5 grs. of Unique and the "slug" was a traditional Paradox bullet of 750 grs. solid or 735 grs. HP. This was used in an original Paradox gun with ratchet rifled choke of 1:36" and with 0.030" constriction (0.050" at lands). Since this gun was designed for BP the load should be quite low pressure. Velocity with the 21.5 grs. Unique was just under 1000 FPS.

Longbow

[AlaskanGuy]

Great article by the way.... Many thanks to Longbow....

[X-man]

I received my mould and pins today. Nice surprise given that I'm home dying the nine deaths with this damn flu that doesn't want to go away. Then there's this stupid "Polar Vortex" the news keeps yammering on about. Minus 29 Celsius today and expect the same temps for the next two weeks! I'm sick of winter! Even so, I was tempted to brave female wrath and head out to the shed and attempt to melt some lead, assuming the old Pro-Melt has a chance in hell of overcoming our now Arctic climate. But then some threats were made and I coughed up part of a lung and decided to stay in bed. :)

[AlaskanGuy]

Anybody else shooting these yet???? My wads should be here today.... This is what I bought to use with brass shells.....

98417

Ag

[jmort]

Love the Vintage box. Is that for over powder or to raise the slug?

[turbo1889]

I plan to get some more load development and test shooting in with them but right now I'm pretty much snowed under and its all I can do to just keep up with my chores and responsibilities and keep my road clear enough to get in and out. Got over a foot of fresh snow in the last 48 hours and its still comming down and things were barely passable before that due to the blowing drifting blizzard last week.

Got a few ideas for some loads with Herco, HS-6, and Lil-Gun in addition to the load development I've already done with Blue Dot and Steel, was also hopping to get some penetration and wound channel tests done firing into the end-grain of big fire-wood round and then splitting them to show the penetration and how well the slugs held up like I did with my twin Brooks slug molds when I first got them.

All those plans for this weekend got canceled due to heavy snow and "digging out" at my place this weekend. Just an update letting all you guys know I'm still "on it" just getting sidetracked by stuff that is forcing precedent over the fun stuff. Not to mention having to rescue one of my best neighbors that managed to get both his car, his plow truck, and his tractor all stuck in a row in that order and having to plow out his nearly two mile long private road and plow a path between where he winters his cows and his hay storage areas and I had to use my big six axle 18 wheel drive custom tractor rig to do it !!! (Okay, maybe I didn't HAVE TO but it was a good excuse to use it.)

[jmort]

"I had to use my big six axle 18 wheel drive custom tractor rig to do it !!!"

One thing every man should own. Had a tractor trailer get stuck at the bottom of my hill post delivery. Poor guy spent the night in his truck, and was stuck until neighbor with D6 yanked him out.

[AlaskanGuy]

Yep morty, it is for over powder, and has a wax ring around it for a good seal... It is 11ga wad, old school type that should be about perfect for use with this slug i am thinking..... Especially in a brass shell in my bolt action heavy 12ga from the 60's.... Just waiting for the front sight to get in, and if it gets here today, i hope to start loading tomorrow.....

Here is a pic of the gun I am building up for my sons birthday...

98454. 98455

98456 lol. Like his sling?? I used a special waterproof twine that we use for mending commercial nets and a para cord type weave attached to the tube....

It was my first shotgun at my dad bought me for christmas back in the 1960's... A JC Higgins from sears... It is heavy barreled, and I drilled the stock and added a couple lbs of lead and corks to help manage recoil... I will do a bit of testing while the son is at school at the range and then on the 19th, it is his....

AG

[AlaskanGuy]

Oh and by the way.... For you guys that are fighting with snow and such, welcome to my world....
[smilie=1:

[jmort]

"Like his sling?? I used a special waterproof twine that we use for mending commercial nets and a para cord type weave attached to the tube...."

Yes. That is a beauty. Yes the cord is nice detail. I think that would be most useful in Alaska, or most anywhere for that matter.

[turbo1889]

As to the "welcome to my world" as to fighting the snow. Yah, I've said something very close to that more then once when watching TV news and seeing all the yo-yos in the south east freaking out when they get an inch of snow and closing down their schools and everything. But at the same time, we had a good solid base of about six inches of ice crust over the ground and rural roads followed by at least a foot of drifted hard pack on top of that up to three foot plus drifts in spots but a good foot everywhere on top of the ice crust base left from the last thaw. Most non-private roads had been cleared down to the hard crust base left from the last thaw and we had at least partially cleared out the drifts from the storm during the week on mine and his private roads. Then we got dumped on with a full foot plus of this wet, heavy fresh goo on top of that. He was in worse shape because he hadn't cleared out his private road as well as I had done mine before the dump but still it was an annoyance to say the least.

Granted, part of me would just like to lay in supplies and hole up during the winter but that would stretch my finances too much to not work at all, all winter so its got to get cleared out. Not to mention emergency access or even just to get the vet in if necessary or better yet make a run to town for meds. to take care of it myself if something goes wrong with the animals (which always seems to happen right after a huge snow storm and the bottle of anti-bods or B-boost shots or such just happens to be empty).

As to the "6-axle 18-wheel drive tractor" and everyone should have one, I doubt there are many like the one I've got. The axle and chassis was something me and my buddies build many years ago when I was a lot younger man for unlimited wheeled tractor pulling competition where we managed to get our hands on three matching sets of old 4-wheel drive 2-ton truck axles (Dodge 600 model I believe) and mounted them all together (as in three rear dually axles and three front steering axles) under a single chassis spaced tight together so its a sold wall of wheels on both sides powered by a big 400-something V8 engine with a single central drive shaft running the length with massive chain drive sprockets connecting all six axles to the power shaft.

It's basically a freaking tank just with a whole bunch of wheels rather then tracks and for many years it sat idle on my folks property until I needed a heavy puller for clearing some land with stump pulling and deep ripping and I didn't want to chuck out the dough to buy a dozer so I though "Why Not?" and got that beast running again and used it and to this day I use it around the place. Rigged up a good standardized PTO on the back end and I use it like a tractor for plowing, hay bailing, etc . . . and it works great so long as what your doing you don't have to worry about all those wheels running over live plants or such.

And, it plows snow really well too with a plow rigged up to it and works really well for pulling stuck neighbors out, especially with chains on all those wheels.

Most people would probably just buy a dozer and/or tractor but its something that I already had even though built for a different purpose and I've made it work for my needs.

[Hogtamer]

Turbo, your written description of that vehicle I'm sure doesn't do it justice, so how about a pic? It could make you an honorary redneck! Especially if you're shootin road signs from it with those big old new slugs!

[Lee S. Forsberg]

If you want additional pins PLEASE either PM or state it in this thread, I will offer:

Round
Flat
Turbo bell

Single cavity is $110
Each additional pin $20 due to the size of the material

Sign up list:

1. jmortimer (all pins)
2. jasonf
3. SP5315 SHIPPED
4. Alaska guy SHIPPED
5. Springfield (turbo bell)
6. Heavy lead (round) SHIPPED
7. RED333 (all pins) SHIPPED
8. TX.shotgun01 (turbo bell) SHIPPED
9. olereb SHIPPED
10. Aaron (all pins) SHIPPED
11. AZBrian (all pins) SHIPPED
12. stripercrazy (all pins) SHIPPED
13. turbo1889 (all pins) SHIPPED
14.
15. Tx reloader72 (round and turbo bell) SHIPPED
16. Hackleback (all pins)
17.
18. 725 (round) SHIPPED
19. scrubber (all pins) SHIPPED
20. X-man
21. rwsem (turbo bell) SHIPPED
22. missionary 5155 (turbo bell) SHIPPED
23. AZBrian (all pins) SHIPPED
24. jmortimer (all pins)
25.
26. Lee S. Forsberg Turbo bell

[AlaskanGuy]

Lee, i think you missed this one... Try PM'ing 338Remultramag and see if he has any left.... I think he had a couple on ebay....

AG

[BKS]

Old thread I know but......
has anyone used these in an H&R USH?

[725]

BKS - It's on my list~! Have the mold and have ordered some components. Once the season is over (which will be soon), I plan to finally get around to working on it. I'll post my results.

[stripercrazy]

I finally ordered the handle and will start trying these in the next month......sometimes life gets in the way

[stripercrazy]

anyone still working with these? I loaded a couple with 33 grains of herco and i'm going to try it

[725]

Somehow, this one got away from. I never did follow through with it. Interested to hear if 33 gr. of Herco does.

[AZBrian]

anyone still working with these? I loaded a couple with 33 grains of herco and i'm going to try it

I am still working with this mold from time to time and have probably shot a few hundred by now loaded with 35 grains of Herco - may be on the high end but it has been working well with no issues. Shell is 1" brass base, 35 grains Herco, Ballistic Products X12X gas seal, Ballistic Products 12ga x 1/2" Hard Card Wad, Slug (turbo bell preference), Crimp. Love it. Woe to anything that gets in it's path.

[Markopolo]

i still have the mold.. but have not used it sense I was known as AlaskanGuy..