1891 Argentine feed problem

[DanM]

I recently got a real pretty 1891 Argie, made in 1892, a fine rifle that refuses to feed the last three rounds from the magazine. The bolt slips right over the cartridge, sometimes moving the round a little, and scratching the case. I hesitated ordering a spring from GPC because their pictured item looked so rough. I did finally order one from them and I was encouraged as it looked really good. Well, the 'new' spring did not help at all. Still no joy. If I hand bend the spring it works better for about 10 rounds and then goes right back to not feeding the last three. My first thought is to try bending the spring and re-heat treating it so that the new bend might last longer. Since I now have an extra spring, maybe nothing to loose? BTW, this rifle has a strange leaf/lever cartridge lifter system, not the usual coil spring system found in later models. I have a hobby map/Oxy torch that may be hot enough, but have never tried doing this before. Am I on the right track here? Can someone give me a short course in heat treating? Or, maybe I am overlooking another option. Also I need a band screw and nut for this rifle, and GPC doesn't have any. Thanks....DanM

[elk hunter]

Heat the spring to an even red heat and plunge in to a can of light oil, I use ATF. Put the spring in a small container, I pound a dent in the bottom of a suitable can, and put enough of the oil in the container to just cover the spring and set the oil on fire and let it burn out. Your spring should work and hold it's shape and resilience.

I don't remember where I read how to do this, but it works.

Best to do this outside as it gets a bit smokey.

[KCSO]

As with a lot of reproduction parts the GPC 's are only rough approximates. You either need a good OLD spring or you need the new spring bent and heat treated. If you haven't done heat treating before either get the Brownell's instructions or have it done for you as if you do it wrong the spring will break in short order. I am currentl working with GPC clips for the 88 commission rifles and am losing about one of every 4 trying to anneal and re temper mystery metal.

[DanM]

Hmmm....I never considered that this could be a repro part as the arsenal marks are there and match my original only lighter. I assume that if I try this myself, the spring should be held in a vise with the hopefully correct amount of bend added when heating. Will check with Brownell's for instructions. thanks....DanM

[Larry Gibson]

Probably not a magazine spring problem at all bu more than likely the sides of the magazine are too tight in the upper half of the '91 magazine. The sides of the mag below the feed lips are also heat treated a bit but can be bent a little out sideways. This problem is exasperated if NS'd fire formed cases, which are fatter, are used.

Larry Gibson

[DanM]

Probably not a magazine spring problem at all bu more than likely the sides of the magazine are too tight in the upper half of the '91 magazine. The sides of the mag below the feed lips are also heat treated a bit but can be bent a little out sideways. This problem is exasperated if NS'd fire formed cases, which are fatter, are used.

Larry Gibson

Larry, your suggestion makes good sense. I have noticed the magazine lips are pretty tight when loading my NS'd reloads. I do have some factory ammo that is gathering dust. Will try some of that and see if it makes any difference. Have tried spreading the lips by twisting a square wooden stick against the lips (did not want to leave a mark) but that method did nothing. The sides of the mag look fire blued, and seem quite hard. Any suggestions on how to spread the lips a little?

[MBTcustom]

Good call Larry.
I would think that it could be a combination of NS'ed brass, and a 120 year old spring. But both are easy to observe and cheap to fix.

[badgeredd]

I'd bet that Larry G has nailed the problem. 91s can be a real pain if they have a feed problem. I've had three 91s with feed issues and all were caused directly or indirectly by the magazine lips. One was caused by pressure on the magazine by wood on the side causing a pinch. The other two had been damaged previously and had to be slightly reformed to fix the problem.

Edd

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, your suggestion makes good sense. I have noticed the magazine lips are pretty tight when loading my NS'd reloads. I do have some factory ammo that is gathering dust. Will try some of that and see if it makes any difference. Have tried spreading the lips by twisting a square wooden stick against the lips (did not want to leave a mark) but that method did nothing. The sides of the mag look fire blued, and seem quite hard. Any suggestions on how to spread the lips a little?

The sides are indeed heat treated into springs. I've spread a couple but left a slight mark. I just figured it had to be done. I put the magazine housing in a padded vise even with where it sticks out of the stock and used a wide jawed pliers to clamp onto the side and bend it out. I start at the front on each side of the magazine and work back a little as with the couple times I've done it only about the front 1/3 needed tweaking for reliable feeding. Also the magazine sides can't be bent out too far as they are held in by the recess in the receiver. Go easy because when the metal decides to bend it bends. The part where it is bent/"marked" is inside the stock and not visible.

Larry Gibson

[DanM]

Larry....thanks for the info! This rifle is so nice that it is extra frustrating for me knowing that it won't feed right. Will try your fix asap....DanM

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[lefty o]

that is one beutiful rifle!