Good ol' Richard

[Jim]

It took me years to learn about the love/hate relationship that exists between Lee products and handloaders. Ya' swear at 'em or by 'em.
Ya' gotta give Richard his due, though. He and his team have come up with some stuff over the years that shows they're thinkin'.
First, years ago, they came out with the Lee Loader. For no more money than a young man might make mowing a couple of lawns, you could buy a reloading outfit that needed nothing more than a solid table and a mallet. There's no tellin' how many deer have been put in the freezer with ammo that was loaded up in a "hammer press".
A few years back, they brought out the Factory Crimp Die. Say what you will, nobody else thought of it! Sure eliminates unseating in heavy revolver calibers, I'll say that.
Recently, they introduced the Taper Crimp Die for autoloader calibers. Personally, I think that's slicker'n snot on a doorknob! I was having chambering problems with my .45 and the taper crimp die solved the problem.
Don't get me wrong. I ain't exactly ready to spend my inheritance on stock in Lee Precision. I have issues with their presses. And, Richard, I mean no disrespect, but your loading manual is lousy.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Jim, The taper crimp die has been around for years for calibers that headspace on the case mouth, such as the .45acp (Which actually headspaces on the extractor, at least in 1911's)
Morgan

[Swagerman]

I think Lee products are very innovative, their presses were not to my liking until they came out with the Lee Classic single stage, and the Classic turret models...which are real winners as far as I'm concerned.

These newer presses far surpass the other higher priced compitition.

Use mostly Lee dies for years.

Jim

[rbstern]

I have no idea what percentage of reloaders it amounts to, but credit Richard Lee for bringing many more shooters into the reloading (and maybe casting) hobby than would have otherwise been possible.

I like his reloading book.

[9.3X62AL]

I do both--swear at and by Lee tools.

The Factory Crimp Die is nothing short of marvelous. A couple of their mould designs do fine work in a lot of guns--the 8mm x 175, and all of their truncated-cone autopistol designs (conventional lube groove) shoot VERY well in my pistols.

Their 6-cavity moulds might be the best example of quality received for dollar spent of all mouldmaker offerings--when the cavities are cut correctly.

[Powderpacker]

Lee's reloading book is my favorite of the dozen or more that I have. The only Lee products I have complaints about are the powder measure that leaks fine powder and jams up on coarse powder and the scale that won't stop swinging. Replaced those two products with a Redding powder measure and a RCBS 1010 scale and now life is good .

[VTDW]

Powderpacker,

I am with you on the lee products.:drinks: No opinion on the Reloading Manual though.

Dave

[trickyasafox]

its all i own, except for a few die sets i got in trade that cost less then new lees would have been. If it wasn't for Lee i wouldn't be reloading or casting.

[Sundogg1911]

I think Lee has it's place. It's great stuff for someone that wants to get into reloading or casting without breaking the bank. I always tell people (Especially with casting) Buy cheap at first. Either used or Lee to see if you're still interested in a few months. If you still enjoy it, then spend some money. I love Lee dies. I also love the little "C" press for depriming and priming. The Lead hardness tester is a great deal for someone that doesn't want to spend the extra money for a cabintree, and it works pretty well. I keep a set of Lee stuff at camp for prepping brass, and smelting. It's not bad stuff, and if it's stolen i'm not out big bucks. I'm also glad to see some stronger Lee stuff out there now like the Classic "O" press. Although most of my reloading bench is covered with Blue equipment, and some green. There's still a place for red. :drinks:

[mtgrs737]

I spoke with Richard Lee 20 years about his approch to designing his products, and his way of doing business and found him to be a unique type of man. I think that we are all better off because of his efforts. If it were not for Mr. Lee I am convienced that we would be paying $100 for a set of carbide dies from the other makers. Thank You Mr. Lee!

[smokemjoe]

I thank them very much for making 41 swiss, 8 MM lebel dies and the odd balls that would cost me triple other places.

[tommyn]

I started reloading using the old Lee hand loader using a rawhide mallet and progressed to the Lee Target Loader. I actually used the Lee Target loader shooting BR (222) in the early 70's and won several matches at Tulsa BR club. I use the Lee priming tool and love the Lee bullet molds. The carbite dies are good. Thanks Mr Lee

[Maineboy]

I have lots of Lee casting and reloading stuff and will continue to buy more. It is really a great value for the money. While not a big fan of Lee single and double cavity moulds, I do like the 6 cavity moulds, their push through sizers, and their reloading dies. Like a lot of you, I'm also a real big fan of the factory crimp die; I just wish they made one for my 35 Whelen. I know they will make one up for you in just about any caliber, I just don't pay the extra fee they charge for a custom made one. After all, I am cheap, that's why I was attracted to Lee in the first place.
I started reloading in 1972 with a Lee loader in 44 mag. and shortly after was casting boolits for it with a Lee single cavity 255 SWC, their precision lead melter with temperature control, and their pan luber and pound through sizer. It was a slow process to get reloaded ammunition but it worked and I shot alot. I still use the lead melter when I'm casting small lots of boolits.
My newest Lee purchases are a Pro 4-20 melter and a Classic turret press. Both are excellent pieces of equipment.

[scb]

I guess Lee makes good entry level equipment and there's nothing wrong with that. For some folks I suppose that that's all they'll ever need. But if you get into loading thousands of rounds in more than a couple of calibers I just don't see how stuff made of plastic and aluminum is going to last. While I too do like their factory crimp dies and bullet sizers (for some applications) I'll never buy another one of their moulds. Then again as with most things, you get what you pay for. Steve

[mtgrs737]

scb.

I haven't tried the single or double moulds but I just love the six cavity molds, they produce good bullets and LOTS of them! I have three and one on order, but I will most likely be getting a couple more shortly, they cast well. I still have two of the bullet caster 4 lb. pots that I started with 30 years ago and they work just as well now as they did then. I also have a 20 lb. Lee pot now as six cavity molds are thirsty!

[MBTcustom]

My bench is covered with green equipment, because my dads bench was covered with green equipment. That's how I learned to reload. But I have fallen in love with the Lee loader. It holds the same mystique that a single shot .22 has. The single shot forces you to slow down and enjoy every savory detail of shooting, and the Lee Loader forces you to enjoy every savory detail of reloading. I take my Lee Loader to the bench and reload at the range. I have found that waiting on the barrel to cool is not so boring anymore, I just reload the brass I just shot.
Now I wouldn't use a Lee Loader for doing handgun reloads because a single stage press is slow enough.
High praise for the FCD, aluminum molds, collet neck sizing dies, hand press, hand-held primer, and push through sizing dies.
Whenever Mr. Lee comes up with a revolutionary design (which is quite often), he makes boocoos of money by selling to millions of poor folks. When any of the other companies stumble across some (gasp) new idea, they make sure that I will never be able to use it because the price dictates sales to folks who either have a lot of extra money, or folks who make money shooting.

[1hole]

"I have issues with their presses. And, Richard, I mean no disrespect, but your loading manual is lousy."

Anyone who buys a Lee press of the model that actually fits his needs will be very well served; the Classic Cast takes a back seat to no single stage and the Classic Turret is also very strong, durable and the unique auto-index feature is a great asset to those loading moderate volumes of anything. Just a side comment about other presses, it's worth remembering all the presses RCBS used to market but failed to meet expectations and were dropped.

A LOT of people disagree with you about Lee's loading manual too.

[Pigslayer]

My bench is covered with green equipment, because my dads bench was covered with green equipment. That's how I learned to reload. But I have fallen in love with the Lee loader. It holds the same mystique that a single shot .22 has. The single shot forces you to slow down and enjoy every savory detail of shooting, and the Lee Loader forces you to enjoy every savory detail of reloading. I take my Lee Loader to the bench and reload at the range. I have found that waiting on the barrel to cool is not so boring anymore, I just reload the brass I just shot.
Now I wouldn't use a Lee Loader for doing handgun reloads because a single stage press is slow enough.
High praise for the FCD, aluminum molds, collet neck sizing dies, hand press, hand-held primer, and push through sizing dies.
Whenever Mr. Lee comes up with a revolutionary design (which is quite often), he makes boocoos of money by selling to millions of poor folks. When any of the other companies stumble across some (gasp) new idea, they make sure that I will never be able to use it because the price dictates sales to folks who either have a lot of extra money, or folks who make money shooting.

Well said.

[Pigslayer]

Jim, The taper crimp die has been around for years for calibers that headspace on the case mouth, such as the .45acp (Which actually headspaces on the extractor, at least in 1911's)
Morgan

I have a Hornaday taper crimp die in 9MM. Like it real well.

[7of7]

This thread got me thinking a bit of all the manufacturers products I use in reloading. I have Corbins, RCBS, Dillon, Ideal (lyman), Lee, Hornady, and I even think I may have some Redding too. All, were purchased when there was a need for that particular item.
I really like the Hornady seating dies, because they have the 'finger saver' feature.. the inner part that drops out of the main housing to line everything up before it starts shoving the bullet into the case.. I think all my crimp dies are Lee, because they have the nicest selection of them. I do also like the Lee sizer dies, the Bulge Buster makes for a nice push through sizer for 45acp, 40/10mm, and I think even 9mm..

[grubbylabs]

I think like any maker they have some good stuff and some stuff that's not so good. The big advantage to them is that the stuff you like from them is still inexpensive and of high quality. I really like their sizing dies. So far they are all I use. And their dipper cups are a great value. The dipper cups are all my brother in law uses to load rifle and he takes his time and tries to be as consistent as possible in his method and it works for him. But I agree his price point has both kept the others in check and have enables many people who other wise would not have been able to get into both casting and reloading.

[arjacobson]

It sounds dumb but I probably would have never gotten into casting if it wasn't for lee products. I had been looking at different molds for along time until I came across a lee 45acp mold for $18.00. I remember getting the lead pot and mold for just a bit more than another makers bullet mold alone. I figured i would give it a shot for that price.. Never looked back after I figured out how to cast good bullets with this setup.. Lee items are what they are..Coming from a machining background it amazes me how these items can be made and sold so inexpensively..great value

[1Shirt]

I mostly swear by Lee products, but will admit that I have sworn at a couple as well. The same can be said of the old Herter products. That said, both have contributed to the reloading industry. And, I sincerly believe that Lee products help hold down the prices of competetor reloading products.
1Shirt:coffeecom

[williamwaco]

Jim,

I too have a love/hate relationship with Lee Equipment. I swear at 'em and I swear by them.

To give credit where credit is due, don't forget their accuracy results.

A 1000 yard world record was not won with shoddy tools.



DID YOU KNOW . . . One reloader who uses Lee Precision Products has set a world record for the smallest group at 1000 Yards .

Robert Frey smashes world record with Lee Collet Dies
While competing in a regularly sanctioned 1000 Yard Match on July 25th, 1993, Robert Frey established a new1000 yard world record.We're honored he used the Lee Collet Die to load his record setting ammunition. World record breakerRobert Frey comments: "The Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die enables me to get top accuracy from my rifles (match and hunting).
The design principle of sizing the case neck to a mandrel is unmatched for accuracy potential by any other dies. It is one of the best ways to make all of myrifles shoot their tightest groups."

Quote from Lee Website.



See:

https://fsreloading.com/

( Scroll down. )




PS:

I don't like the load data section of the Lee manual but the rest of the manual was one of the most informative and educational manuals I have ever read.






.

[jonas302]

I never would be reloading or casting and hence shooting without me Lee. I thoroughly enjoyed his book I don't have a lot of the powders that are listed in the data section when I do I have no problems. From his writings you can tell that he is a eccentric man and dedicated to keeping shooting fun and affordable I see no other reason to market his products for the price they do

I notice we have a lot of different type of shooters on here some need thousands of rounds some a few its a great thing that we have enough choice in companies to serve every ones needs

[Char-Gar]

Folks that have problems with Lee, do not have problems with his concepts. It is his execution of the concepts that cause the issues. i.e...His designs are great, but his products are often crappy.

[LUBEDUDE]

Started with the Lee/hammer, worked my way up the food chain to Green, then to True Blue.

They all have their place.

Oh yeah, I do use the FCD's.

[mpmarty]

Started reloading with a LEE hammer press. Then bought an RCBS Rockchucker in about 1969 then a 550B then a cheapo LEE "C" press to prime and de-prime, I've got a LEE collet FCD in most of my rifle calibers and one set of LEE dies for 223 which won't fully size the brass I guess I could mill off the bottom of the sizer and cure that but since I quit shooting 223 it just sits in the box.

[Romeo 33 Delta]

Echoing what's been said, I would not be into reloading and wildcatting if it were not for Lee Precision. The Challenger kit, a copy of his manual, and ABC's of Reloading set my foot upon the path and I've never looked back. While I have dies from RCBS, Hornady, Redding, CH-4D, I always go to Lee whenever I need a Collect Die Set for a new cartridge. Certainly, some products are better than others, but they get you started and many of the products will still be on your bench 10-20-30 years later. You can't ask for more than that!

[41 mag fan]

If Richard Lee comes on this forum, I wish he'd read some of the complaints and the likes of his products.
His dies and presses, I own.
I religously use his dies, esp powder thru and FCD, esp on my Classic turret.
But his molds suck. I got them, and I just got 2 in yesterday from his closeout page.
You put their molds up against ones like NOE or Miha or Accurate or Mountain Molds, there's no comparison.
Even the looks of the boolits, the function, and quality of the molds theres a 180* difference.
Plus the aluminum is of cheaper quality.
What I wish he'd do, is offer the molds he has now in a higher quality grade of aluminum, with a different alignment system on the 1 & 2 cav's and maybe even offer a higher and better polishing job of the cavites.

Step up the quality of these molds and yes it'll cost more, but so be it. I'd much rather pay a higher price and get something of quality than pay a low price and get something that compares to if not lower than the " made in China" quality.

Some people don't mind buying the cheaper molds and they're good starter molds, but I don't want to spend my time monkeying with a mold to get it to cast what I expect.

If Lee would look at the other mold makers, they'd see they're backed up. NOE has group buys scheduled a year out. Granted he has to make a dollar here and there, so he's droning up other business to pay his workers and hisself and to keep the doors open, but it's the quality of his products that so many of us on here have stacked up like cord wood to buy and are willing to wait a year out to receive. Same goes with Mihec, even though I only have one of his molds, it's top notch quality. Only thing that sucks is the slow boat ride to china, but thats not his fault there, thats the postal service issues. But theres alot of us out there willing to wait on that slow boat, just to have one of his molds.

I've always wondered, why from an economic standpoint, one of the reasons, besides lack of QC and cheaper quality of parts, and maybe lower overhead, why Lee products are cheaper than Redding, RCBS, Hornady, ect, ect, is the wage his workers earn.
Always wonderd though if one of several reasons why the competitors are more expensive is because their workers earn a better living.

[Walt]

Personally I've got nothing good to say about Lee products. However, if the prices have got some folks to start reloading or casting it can't be all bad. :)

[rbstern]

I've had great success with Lee products and often prefer them to more expensive alternatives.

In the last four or five years, with the advent of the the "classic" series presses, my feeling is that quality has been on the upswing at Lee. Those presses compete well or beat pretty much everything in their respective categories, and they still cost less than the competition.

[Recluse]

If Richard Lee comes on this forum, I wish he'd read some of the complaints and the likes of his products.
His dies and presses, I own.
I religously use his dies, esp powder thru and FCD, esp on my Classic turret.
But his molds suck. I got them, and I just got 2 in yesterday from his closeout page.
You put their molds up against ones like NOE or Miha or Accurate or Mountain Molds, there's no comparison.
Even the looks of the boolits, the function, and quality of the molds theres a 180* difference.
Plus the aluminum is of cheaper quality.
What I wish he'd do, is offer the molds he has now in a higher quality grade of aluminum, with a different alignment system on the 1 & 2 cav's and maybe even offer a higher and better polishing job of the cavites.

Step up the quality of these molds and yes it'll cost more, but so be it. I'd much rather pay a higher price and get something of quality than pay a low price and get something that compares to if not lower than the " made in China" quality.

Thing is, I like the boolit designs of some of their molds extremely well, so I buy the molds, Lee-ment them, be gentle with them, and get very good boolits from them.

But I agree that I'd like to see the "Classic" quality offered in not just some of their molds, but in some of their other projects--especially their hand-primer tool.

Problem is, both Richard and John are engineers, and as you know, you can never tell an engineer a damn thing.


I've always wondered, why from an economic standpoint, one of the reasons, besides lack of QC and cheaper quality of parts, and maybe lower overhead, why Lee products are cheaper than Redding, RCBS, Hornady, ect, ect, is the wage his workers earn.
Always wonderd though if one of several reasons why the competitors are more expensive is because their workers earn a better living.

I know RCBS is owned by a holding company, and that right there automatically drives up the price by a minimum of ten percent. I believe Lyman is as well. Not sure about Hornady. Dillon only sells direct and is wholly owned and their prices are considerably higher than just about everyone else's. However, their warranty and service go a long way to justifying the price for heavy users who plan on keeping and using their equipment for decades to come.

But Lee also outsells the competition in sheer volume by a long shot, and in retail sales, volume is what allows a brand to offer highly competitive pricing. Additionally, plastic costs less than aluminum which costs less than steel which costs less than iron. . . so Lee's materials cost is also lower.

I love Lee's innovations but do not like their choice of materials in a lot of their stuff.

:coffee:

[AndyC]

I admire their creativity in engineering solutions to a problem.

I wish some of their plastic stuff was better made eg. those little plastic gears.

I also wish their moulds came in better designs instead of their homebrewed ones eg. a proper H&G 68 200gr swc .45 clone instead of that abortion they claim is a clone.