Damascus Shotgun Barrel

[wolfspotter]

My brother-in-law just gave me an old double barrel shotgun. It's marked LONDON FINE TWIST on the top barrel rib and was soft soldered on, something I will have to solder back on. The square hole on the left hammer is stripped out and will have to be refilled and filed. Otherwise the locks are fine. Also have to fabricate and mount a replacement piece that goes on the underside rib that the barrel wedge goes through. I know the gun isn't worth much but the bores are in great shape.
First question; Will this still be safe to shoot with mild loads of BP?
My brother-in-law started trying to get rid of the old brown patina using sandpaper :shock: so I'm going to polish with steel wool.
Second question; Even if it turns out to be a wallhanger, is there something I can put on the barrels to bring out the damascus pattern when I'm done?
Thanks.

[Mk42gunner]

In the condition you describe I would not let my worst enemy attempt to fire that shotgun.

It is a wall hanger.


Robert

[NVcurmudgeon]

Shooting that old damascus barreled shotgun means you are relying on 19th century technology in which steel and iron strips were twisted,then hammer welded around a mandrel. Even if the barrels look good, slag inclusions are quite common.

[singleshotbuff]

I'm of the school of thought that, if it is in sound condition, I'd fire it with low pressure loads.

I've read a lot of articles on both sides of this issue, Ross Seyfried, for one, shoots damascus guns without problems. I don't think I've ever read a VERIFIED case of a SOUND CONDITION damascus gun bursting with sane loads. Not saying it hasn't happened, I've just not read a reliable report of it.

As with a lot of things in life, the risk is up to you. Kinda like lead exposure or skydiving. I know I'd like to have an old damascus hammer gun, I love the look of twist steel. I also know (if it was in sound condition) that I'd shoot it.

This is all just my opinion. Which, along with $1.09, will buy you a cup of gas station coffee and is worth exactly what you paid for it.

SSB

[StrawHat]

I won't get in to the shoot/ don't shoot side.

To bring out the damascus work on the barrels a couple of things might work.

First, check the proof marks, if there, and verify what country proofed the barrels.

Starting with clean barrels, sometimes a simple browning solution will bring up the twist. Sometimes it might take 2-3 applications.

One of my acquaintances had to cold blue the barrels and then brown them to make the twist stand out.

Unfortunately, there is no sure fire way to do it.

Some of the "twist" or "damascus" barrels were just plain barrels with a fuax finish on them to look like twist. This was done because at one time the damascus barrel was the preferred barrel and plain iron barrels were the cheapoes and looked down on. Now of course we "know better" and damascus is the bad guy.

I seem to recall there are a couple of barrel makers who were still making damascus barrels, I will try to find links to them.

[KCSO]

You won't just re solder that rib. You will have to make a soldering jig because as you get the barrels hot enough to solder the whole gun will fall apart if not held properly. If the rib has been loose for any amount of time I would suggest NOT firing the gun as corrosion will have attacked the outside of the tubes no matter what the inside looks like. I have rebuilt several shotguns like this and re soldering IF the tubes pass inspection runs$125.00. If the action needs tightenning with a new hinge pin, and if you need hammer repairs and if the inside of the lock needs work (If the outside is bad the inside might be too) you may be looking at $250-300 bucks to fix this one up.

[cuzinbruce]

I read an article in Double Gun Journal within the last year or two, in which they tested a number of guns with damascus barrels to see what would happen. They used modern, smokeless, proof loads, Remington, I think. Tested a number of guns, made measurements before and after of the barrel and the gap at the breech. None of them blew up. One of them had the gap between barrel and the breech face increase measureably. That was about it. And some of the guns looked like real beaters. Obviously they weren't going to destruction test something priceless. So damascus barrels may not be as dangerous as we have been lead to believe. It was an interesting read. Don't have the magazine any more, but it wasn't that long ago. Possible any burst barrels are more likely due to bore obstructions. Dropping a 20 gauge shell down a 12 gauge barrel, snow or mud in the barrel. All of which can burst a barrel.

[exblaster]

I have a doubel shotgun with Damascus barrels I shoot it with Savage .410 inerts .
Exblaster

[versifier]

Assuming the barrels are safe, and there is no guarantee of that, and no reliable way I know of to find out except the hard way, steel (not aluminum) inserts might be a workable solution, but I would still be hesitant. Better still, fix the old girl up for practice, remove the firing pins, and make it into a sharp looking wall hanger. I have seen them blown up with light target loads twice, with injuries to the shooter and onlookers. Breakdown of the metal due to reactions with various inclusions found in it doesn't show on the surface. There may be some new and wonderful high tech way to check them out, but you would still be left with a potential fragmentation grenade next to your face. For the amount of cash you'd need to put into it to get it "up and running", you could get yourself a decent used double that would be safe.

[The Double D]

I know the gun isn't worth much but the bores are in great shape.
First question; Will this still be safe to shoot with mild loads of BP?
My brother-in-law started trying to get rid of the old brown patina using sandpaper :shock: so I'm going to polish with steel wool.
Second question; Even if it turns out to be a wallhanger, is there something I can put on the barrels to bring out the damascus pattern when I'm done?
Thanks.

What does great shape mean?

Unless you have the barrels x-rayed you can not be sure it is safe to shoot even with BP.

Back in the olden day in the mid 80's I had a double come into my shop to be repaired as it had burst. My memory tells me it was a Parker---but did Parker have twist barrels? It was a fancy high grade gun anyway. There was no evidence of rust or pitting in the bore or outer wall of the barrel. In the area of the burst in the seam was a long occlusion that had rust/corrosion and let go with duck loads. It did not appear the the occlusion penetrated to the surface of the barrel inside or out.

The shooter was injured in the hand.

I recall sending the gun off to guy in Virginia who specialized in double repair and he built new barrels. Cost lots of money. Boy I wish they had digital cameras back in those days...I seen so stuff come in the shop.

Read this article by John Taylor and written for Briley Manufacturing the shotgun barrel people for more on the topic. Grampa's Shotgun (www.briley.com/articles/grampas_shotgun.html)

[The Double D]

One point about fixing it nice to use as a wall hanger....how do you know the next owner won't think its nice condition is indicative of it shooting condition and shot it. The only reason to waste your time on it is to determine if the barrels are sound. If they aren't don't waste the time

[wolfspotter]

Thanks all, I think I'll clean it up some and put it on the wall. Don't want to risk blowing the thing up. :drinks:

[Uncle R.]

I have an old C. G. Bonehill (Birmingham) double with Damascus barrels that somebody ALREADY refinished, recut the checkering and generally made her into a pretty wall-hanger. It was my intention to shoot it with black powder ONLY and use it on sporting clays just to reinforce my existing reputation as weird with the other shooters. To that end I proof- tested both barrels with a Beligian proof house load that I found in one of my old books. I don't recall the particulars but it was essentially a double charge of black under a heavy load of shot. I know that the whole load would barely fit in a 2-3/4" case and I had to use a top wad 'cause there wasn't enough hull left to crimp.
Both barrels held the proof load - but I still couldn't bring myself to fire it from the shoulder. I just decided that I like all of my fingers right where they are. It looks nice as a wall hanger though...
:-D
Uncle R.

[scb]

I worked at a place (now gone) where we use to "re-sleeve" a lot of Damascus guns, and I've seen a lot of them that were blown up. We worked on mostly Parkers and L.C.Smiths some Ithacas and LeFevers (it was a rather expensive process). It was my job to do the machine work on these barrels. This involved boring the breach out to make a mono bloc out of it. Removing the ribs and cutting off the barrels so that all you had left was about 3 - 3 1/2" of the breach. New hammer forged tubes were then turned to match the original contour and also slip into the breach then everything was soldered back together and blued. Anyway during the boring process we forced coolant form the muzzle out the breach mainly to remove the chips. On many occasions these perfectly good looking barrels would spring leaks thru tiny pinholes that were completely invisible. It was also a very common thing to find coolant between the barrels when the ribs were removed. It is not uncommon to find extremely heavy pitting between the barrels (even on steel barrels) where water and corrosive elements are trapped during the bluing/browning process. Myself I value my sight and my fingers too much to take a chance. For what it's worth. Steve

[scb]

Was just re-reading my post and perhaps "blown up" is a little too strong a description. What they would usually do is split and generally right about where your left hand would be if your a right handed shooter. Very seldom would one come in that was actually missing "fragments".