Another new-guy question: first lube machine. Conventional or powder-coat?

[C. Latch]

Like the title says, I'm looking at buying my first lubing machine. For the last 10 months as I've gotten into casting I have lubed by hand. Muzzleloader bullets - I'll probably continue to do so. Plinking loads for my .38s - I'll probably continue to tumble-lube.

The thing I need a 'real' lube machine for is my .45 Colt. I want to hunt with it, and hate to load ammo without very carefully cleaning all of the lube off the base of the bullet - and this is messy. I've been able thus far to shoot even hot loads without any leading, using homemade lubes of various sorts, but I'm simply tired of the time-consuming and messy process of lubing by hand then having to wipe lube off the base of the bullet, then load it, then wipe more lube off the nose of the bullet, inside of the seating die, the brass case, ad nauseum.

To that end, I want to mechanize the process of lubing my .45 bullets.

Sure, I *might* extend the process to my muzzleloader bullets and my .38s, but mainly I want to be able to lube my .45s.

Should I get a lubrisizer or go with a powder-coating kit?

[Echd]

PC is very inexpensive compared to a lube sizer, dies, punches, lube, and the bench space it all takes.

$50 PC gun, $5 a lb PC that does 6-900 bullets easily, and cheapo pushthru dies to size.

But folks get great results with both PC and lube. The more I PC the more I'm convinced it's superior, but there's no doubt that traditional lubes work just fine as well and can get equally excellent results, although perhaps not at super high velocities with as little effort.

[mdi]

If I were to make a suggestion, I'd say go with a standard lubersizer. Learn the "normal" way to finish your bullets with a time proven method, then after you have all this down pat, experiment with the newer hi-tech coatings if you choose. Personally, I have found no need nor am I curious enough to try powder coating...

[xacex]

Ah, MDI is just telling you that so he can pick up a new lube sizer in the swapping and selling in a few months when you decide PC is easier and cheaper. PC is cleaner on your equipment, and make boolit storage with lube less of a hassle. Traditional is fine, if you cant find anything else. for 45 is is the cats meow. Easy to do if you have a hollow point mold or plain mold, and easy to find a load. No more messy lead fingers while loading. It sound like you already made your mind up anyway. Just get the PC gun, and make you life easy. Here, I will even give you a 25% code 11051881.

[bangerjim]

PC.........end of story!

I started it several months ago and you can read the history of it's progress on the several threads on here. MANY.......MANY of us are doing it ..........very successfully.

Gone are my days of mixing up cauldrons of witch's brew greasy lubes and slopping them on my slugs. With PC......NO mess....No fuss.....NO leading......NO smoke.

I PC EVERYTHING I shoot .......223/30/9/357/38/40/45LC. No problems anywhere.

Don't waste your money on an antique technology lubra-sizer! Get a HF powder gun and go at it.

Nuff said!

bangerjim

[popper]

I PC rifle and HiTek the 40 & 9. Both work well, no mess, no fuss. Throw them in a box and leave for 10 yrs, they work fine. I think the H-T works better for harder alloys. PCing techniques are getting better and IMHO gives better performance at this time. H-T may get better, he is doing a lot of testing. PC will always be available, H-T is imported from Aussie. I started with LLA, used peanut butter and veggie oil. All messy but work good. I also don't have space for a separate lube machine on the WB, only the press is permanant.

[dbosman]

Lyman #45s that still work, sell on eBay for under $70 regularly. Some under $50.
If you have a convection oven you can use and clean before a significant other catches you, try powder coating with or with out acetone. Purchase the Harbor Freight powder if it's local.

[C. Latch]

Thanks guys. There's a HF store 15 miles from here. Drive past it weekly.

[C. Latch]

Here, I will even give you a 25% code 11051881.

What website is that for?

<--love a good deal. :-P

[xacex]

What website is that for?

<--love a good deal. :-P

Why its Harborfreight.com of course!

[C. Latch]

Why its Harborfreight.com of course!

Thanks!

Hadn't really even considered their website. Will have to go check that out.

[el34]

I am currently cleaning the Recluse lube off the couple thousand boolits I have waiting to get loaded so I can PC them with the HF system. Something I want to try is jacketed-level loads, maybe the exact same powder charge, with PC'd boolits. And maybe not be concerned as much about alloy hardness.

Recluse 45-45-10 is great stuff, I just want to go in this new direction.

[xacex]

I am currently cleaning the Recluse lube off the couple thousand boolits I have waiting to get loaded so I can PC them with the HF system. Something I want to try is jacketed-level loads, maybe the exact same powder charge, with PC'd boolits. And maybe not be concerned as much about alloy hardness.

Recluse 45-45-10 is great stuff, I just want to go in this new direction.

I have a bunch of LLA, and JPW just sitting collecting dust now. I may keep it to coat buried guns or something.

[C. Latch]

The thing that interests me the most is that many folks seem to be using PC as a means to push softer bullets faster.

I'm wanting to hunt deer with a .45 Colt using either a 260, 300, or 310 grain flat point at 1000-1200 FPS. I don't need hard bullets - and would be happy with a bit of expansion. So this PC thing really has me interested. I read several of the threads a few months ago, but wanted to hold off; last week I loaded up a good many .45s and got really frustrated with the time it took because of having to deal with messy lube.

[Beagle333]

The thing that interests me the most is that many folks seem to be using PC as a means to push softer bullets faster.

That's the main reason I'm in the game! :mrgreen:

[xacex]

The interesting thing is by doing P/C without water dropping you end up with a boolit that is evenly tempered after casting. But, the kicker is you can heat treat them too at any time if you find that the alloy is to soft. Try that with traditional lube after they are lubed and boxed up.

[C. Latch]

I've been annealing my COWW and COWW +2%Sn bullets by heating them to 430 or so and just turning the oven off. I'd never even thought about the ability to heat them up and water-drop with the coating on. I do see the utility there. It would make it much easier to experiment with different hardnesses, for sure.

[C. Latch]

That's the main reason I'm in the game! :mrgreen:

The big HP in your avatar looks like if it expanded even a little bit a deer would never know what hit it.

[el34]

The thing that interests me the most is that many folks seem to be using PC as a means to push softer bullets faster.



Me too. I'm a target shooter so don't have a priority on expansion, I just want to mix my alloy for a softer BHN to save on antimony. After soaking up as much expert info as I could find I settled on 12-12.5 BHN to prevent leading at many different velocities and have gone through a lot of superhard, lino, and monotype.

[Echd]

Why its Harborfreight.com of course!

That's a great code. I just ordered a new bench from them using it- somehow buying the bench (the box weighs at least 80-90 lbs at the store) only has a $6 shipping charge online. Go figure!

Thanks a ton.

This bench btw:

http://www.harborfreight.com/60-inch-workbench-93454.html

It'll be perfect to go next to my reloading benches, and the drawers are something I definitely need!

[xacex]

That's a great code. I just ordered a new bench from them using it- somehow buying the bench (the box weighs at least 80-90 lbs at the store) only has a $6 shipping charge online. Go figure!

Thanks a ton.

This bench btw:

http://www.harborfreight.com/60-inch-workbench-93454.html

It'll be perfect to go next to my reloading benches, and the drawers are something I definitely need!
No problem, glad I could help!

[dverna]

I think you have it back-asswards. You need a 'cleaner lube' system for plinking bullets not for hunting bullets. I doubt you go though 200 hunting bullets a year. You will do though that many plinkers in one range trip.

White Label lubes are less than $2/stick and not a pain to use like your home brews. So a traditional lube/sizer is an option.

If I was starting out, and only doing pistol bullets, and lots of them, I would go with HT.

Don Verna

[waco]

If I were to make a suggestion, I'd say go with a standard lubersizer. Learn the "normal" way to finish your bullets with a time proven method, then after you have all this down pat, experiment with the newer hi-tech coatings if you choose. Personally, I have found no need nor am I curious enough to try powder coating...
I'm kinda with you on this one. Might be fun to play with, but I'm not sure how much money I'd have to shell out to get started.
They do look very cool though!
waco

[bangerjim]

The thing that interests me the most is that many folks seem to be using PC as a means to push softer bullets faster.

I'm wanting to hunt deer with a .45 Colt using either a 260, 300, or 310 grain flat point at 1000-1200 FPS. I don't need hard bullets - and would be happy with a bit of expansion. So this PC thing really has me interested. I read several of the threads a few months ago, but wanted to hold off; last week I loaded up a good many .45s and got really frustrated with the time it took because of having to deal with messy lube.

Save on the Sb/Sn.......PC!

Yes you can shoot softer slugs. The PC takes the guesswork/worry about having the right bhn to prevent leading.

Also eliminates the smoke from burning greasy lubes.

That is why we do it........and to get perrrrrrrrrrty boolits!

banger

[el34]

Banger, I think it would be good to see more info on load data used for PC boolits. There have been a smattering of posts so it's on its way. Someday we'll know if PC is equivalent to jacketed, including max loads. And if BHN is totally irrelevant (which I predict won't be the case).

I had about 1400 158gr SWC's for 357, all lubed up with Recluse. I used <100 getting a nice load with 2400 then got into PC. So I stripped the lube off of them and PC'd them. It's "wet black" from PBTP. The alloy is 12.5BHN, now I will work on loading to approximate factory but it'll take me weeks.

86398

[C. Latch]

OK, the HF kit and regulator is on the wife's Christmas list.

Might even get it before then.

[popper]

C. Latch - you will thank her with a BIG hug. My list has SMOKELESS POWDER on it.

[shadowcaster]

OK, the HF kit and regulator is on the wife's Christmas list.

Might even get it before then.

Don't forget.. if you don't have one already, you also need to scrounge or shell out for an oven to bake them in.

Shad

[el34]

Don't forget.. if you don't have one already, you also need to scrounge or shell out for an oven to bake them in.

Shad

Yep, a convection model. And you also need a compressor, not a big one but bigger than the puny one-gallon $45 one from Walmart. I got a $100 six-gallon pancake compressor from HF and am very happy with it.

[starmac]

With Freightmans method, you don't need the pc gun or air compressor, just a tumbler and oven and the powder. It appears to work pretty good too.

[C. Latch]

I have a small compressor (it's from Wal-Mart, but I think it's more than 1-gallon) and the wife said I could have the old toaster oven because she wants a new one.

[paul h]

Unless I'm missing something, the downside of powder coating is you aren't sizing the bullets. Some molds cast oversize bullets, and if you have multiple guns in a given caliber you may find you need to use different sized bullets for different guns. Not all guns will chamber unsized bullets.

Yes, lube sizers are slow (accepting the star) and expensive when you get multiple sizing dies. But, best accuracy is achieved with a bullet properly sized to the gun, and often times that requires a sizer. I have achieved amazing accuracy with unsized bullets, but I've also had unsized bullets that wouldn't chamber in a gun and after propely sizing them for function, they achieved amazing accuracy.

It's just another tool, sometimes you need one and sometimes you don't.

[C. Latch]

Unless I'm missing something, the downside of powder coating is you aren't sizing the bullets.

My understanding is that once 'lubed' with powder coat, the bullets can then be ran through a sizer (all of mine are Lee push-throughs anyway) with no harm to the coating.


Here's another question - probably answered in another thread that I've overlooked - if PC is so great, but lube was vital for all these years.......how would it be to PC a bullet then give it a super-thin film of some sort of lubricant? Would this give higher velocity, or allow powder charges to be increased to get higher velocities without excess pressures? Is anyone experimenting with a 'double whammy' of lube on top of PC?

[popper]

Something I want to try is jacketed-level loads, maybe the exact same powder charge, with PC'd boolits Done that in 308 & 40. Size after PC, I use oversized sizer to install GCs. Works extremely well. I don't use any 'extra' lube, just HF PC. 2300 fps was very accurate, 2400 was almost as good, getting ready to try 2700 (24" bbl) with 3% Sb. You don't need much more than 10# pressure from the comp., use a second regulator so you can put 50# or so in the tank and will have good volume flow. I used an old freon tank & a tire comp. to run my airbrush when I was building N train stuff for my kid.
.45 Colt using either a 260, 300, or 310 grain flat point at 1000-1200 FPS. I don't need hard bullets I push the Lee 175 TC to max loads with AC SOWW alloy, good accuracy but I think you'll need COWW, WD for that weight & fps. Add a little Cu and you won't get fragging with the 'harder' alloy.

[xacex]

Popper, how are you adding copper? Are you using the tinning speaker wire method, or something else. I saw something about the root killer crystals, but that one was lost on me. Something about contaminating first with zinc.

[popper]

So far just using root killer. It replaces either tin or zinc. I've got a supply of #2 I use for the tin. I've used pennies for the zinc - it works too. So far too lazy to tin Cu wire. Pewter is also a good tin supply.