Honest MOA shooting?

[Wilkie]

Ok guys, what kind of groups do you REALLY get with cast boolits in In-line ML's at 100 yards?

[idahoron]

I have shot many sub 1" groups at 100 yards.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/RCBSgroupCleanbetweenshots.jpg

Ok this one is a pinch over.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/RCBS11mmgroup2.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/316grMinie100yardsinfoadded.jpg

I do have many more but I feel that if I can shoot sub 2" groups at 100 I am good to go. I have many many sub 2" groups. These were all paper patched bullets. Ron

[Rattus58]

Ok guys, what kind of groups do you REALLY get with cast boolits in In-line ML's at 100 yards?My hundred yard groups with open sights aren't as stellar as the gun is capable, but there are several people who come on here occasionally, one of them Underclocked, and another Big 6X6 both have with cast lead bullets exceptional groups hovering well under 2". At 50 yards where I don't cover the target I've got a 3 shot group of .66" that I'm looking for and found. This is with iron's. Point is, muzzleloaders can and have nothing to apologize for... ::p

85526

[Bullshop Junior]

Most of my muzzleloader shooting was close to minute of moose but I never tried very hard.

[fouronesix]

Don't know about "honest" MOA muzzleloader groups but these are close to MOA or less. Targets are put together to save bandwidth. They at least show the potential of "regular" BP muzzleloaders.

All groups shot @ 50 yards from a rest- blackpowder, soft lead cast.

Left to right:
Original M1841 Mississippi 54 cal Minié- original sights
Original M1863 Rifled Musket 58 cal Minié- original sights
T/C Hawken 50 cal Maxiball- aperture rear, blade front

[Wilkie]

Impressive groups! I struggle with my open sights out to 100 yards. Do you all find tighter groups with patching or sabots?

[fouronesix]

Since my brief "fall into darkness" with an inline, years ago, that I didn't like and couldn't get to shoot that well, I've stuck with traditional MLs and BP. So specific traditional loads probably don't apply to the inlines. Sorry, not much help there. Posted the targets of thee different traditional MLs as a reference only to what traditional MLs and BP can do.

FWIW- the bore on the M41 is about .540", has 7 grooves and is about 48" twist. The bore on the M63 is about .580" has 3 grooves and is about 70+" twist. The bore on the factory (1970S) T/C Hawken is about .500" and is 48" twist. I cast Miniés and Maxis of pure lead and lube with Crisco. I have paper patched Miniés for certain rifles before with good results but with correct bare Minié loads found no advantage with the added hassle of the paper patch.

[kens]

When I was young and my eyes were good, I shot 3-round cloverleafs @ 50yards, from a bench.
That was a percussion long rifle, traditional iron sights, patched roundball, FFFg powder

I have also hunted with flintlock in the drizzling rain.
Muzzleloaders have nothing to apologize for

[idahoron]

I am using Peep sights and the front sight is a globe with long Range BPCR inserts. With these sights I can shoot out to 300 yards pretty well. I have shot sabots from inlines. I have never shot one in my Hot Rods but the paper patching is by far the best method I have ever found. I have shot a lot of game with Hornady Great plains bullets and they can't hold a candle to the 500 S&W paper patched bullets I make. I shot a cow elk this year in the shoulder and found the bullet in the flank. She was dead almost instantly. Ron

[johnson1942]

wilkie: two of my boys each have my sabot guns now. they shoot better than the shooter. the inline can shoot to 300 yards easily. i shoot paperpatch and idaho ron is right, the paper patch can shoot as accurate as is possible and because it weighs more it is very very powerful in takeing game. last year before i drove down to denver to visit one of my sons and give him the gun i tried it again. with 100 grains of black and a mmp heavy duty sabot and a .45 250 grain pistol bullet i hit a five gallon pail i placed out in the field behind our house, dead center. i still like paper patch the best for my self. oh yes the pail was 180 yards out. i put small scrap pumpkins out at 125 yards and center shoot them with my .45 paperpatch. saw a really good buck to day and hope he sticks around, we know where he sleeps.

[idahoron]

Go get him!

[johnson1942]

its scarry ron as he was a big one, really hope he sticks around. next sat. reg rifle season opens and my 14 year old can try for him. i dont carry a gun untill dec first. the patch he lives in is crp and good cover. only a mile or so from the house. their are a lot more out their but blue tongue reduced the population some. that tall sage brush where you live really holds some big deer. the green country east of us is nice to look at but the rugged western landscape never gets tiresome.

[DIRT Farmer]

Some of the guys at Friendship are doing some interesting things with modern style muzzle loaders shooting sabots.
I have never worked much with sabots but have had sucess with bore size castings and grease groove.
I have the Pedersoli Gibbs that is operator limited, also a Volenteer rifle that is amazing with the 11mm Spanish boolit paper patched out to 200 yds again limited by me.

[Wilkie]

I am using sabot's. I was getting pretty erratic results. I didn't know if it was me, the gun or whatever. That's why I posted the OP. I am used to getting 1 moa out past 300 yards with my rifle, so I didn't know what to expect with these smoke poles. One thing that was pointed out to me by a sage muzzleloader, let the barrel cool while sighting in. The sabots can be very sensitive to heat in the barrel, he told me. If it is at all warm to the touch, its too hot. I was a little dubious about that. But, I went out this morning to take his advice and wait between each shot until the barrel was cool to the touch.....I'll be danged if I wasn't shooting 1.5'' groups at 100 yards! With my cast Lee .451 300's!

Now, since the spike elk hunt is day after tomorrow here in Utah for ML, I think I am finally ready to go! Thanks all for your feedback.

By the way Johnson1942, your custom bullets you sent me kick like a mule, but are dang accurate. Thanks for helping a new guy out.

[johnson1942]

thanks, i find that in my side locks they dont feel uncomfortable but in my sons new inline they are almost too much for me. the barrels are longer on the side locks but it has to be more to it. can any one give the reason why? thanks again for trying them.

[Wilkie]

thanks, i find that in my side locks they dont feel uncomfortable but in my sons new inline they are almost too much for me. the barrels are longer on the side locks but it has to be more to it. can any one give the reason why? thanks again for trying them.

I bet my inline at a shade under 7 pounds with its short barrel and composite stock are a big culprit. The thing is light!

[kens]

what is your barrel twist?
Mine is 1:48 and it likes light bullets with sabots, and doesnt like round ball. 1:48 50 cal is a in-between twist, too slow for heavy sabot, and too fast for roundball.
I ended up taking a .45 acp hardball drilling a hollowpoint in it and shoot that in sabot.

[45 Bravo]

I can say this from over 30 years of muzzle loading.
The key to getting tight groups is consistency...
The same weight bullet or ball
The same diameter ball or bullet
The same patch thickness, and amount of lube (if shooting patched round ball)
The same powdercharge every time
The same seating pressure evert time
The same amount of fouling (some clean after each shot)

And a cold barrel helps.
Your first shot in the morning at a deer is going to be a cold barrel shot. Why not make them all cold.

And this does not even get into holding the rifle & squeezing the trigger the same way every time.

Good shooting up there guys.

[fouronesix]

Thought it appropriate to go to the range for a short shoot since it is Armistice/Veterans Day. Several other older shooters out there also with a variety of WWI and WWII era rifles- mostly Garands and 03s.

Took out this 1865 P53 L.A.Co, London Militia, rifled musket to blow out the cobwebs.

4 shots, 50 yards, .576" pure lead RCBS N-S Minié, 55gr FF Wano, Crisco lube. About 1.75 MOA. Not MOA but close enough.

[Win94ae]

I struggled to get 4MOA with mini-balls; I think it was that my lead was too hard, (I must not actually have pure lead.)

Then I tried sabots with some .452 diameter jacketed bullets I had lying around and they were much better.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/justgoto/Guns%203/MuzzleloaderGroup_zpsed536e15.jpg

Maybe it was the recoil with the 360gr mini-ball loads, screwing with the cheap scopes I was using? I'll have to try the mini-balls again when I get some iron sights.

The jacketed bullets, (actually 250gr,) have terrible BCs, so they were slow at 250 yards, but precise.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceS9zbEHXes
YouTube seems to be down right now. :/

[firefly1957]

I have a early Trail Guns Armory Kodiak made by Pederseli (Sp) .58X.58 that will shoot a patched round ball 3 shot group at 100 yds of about 2 inches from the right and left barrel the groups are about 4 inches apart. The load is a Lee .562 cast Round ball a thin* denim patch lubed with olive oil and 110 grs og FFG goex powder.

* i forgot the thickness off the top of my head it is the material used in women's or kids jeans .

[Plastikosmd]

Not inline but underhammer, not bullet but .62 ball.
100 yrd, 5 shot, aperture sights
0.75" little to the left tho!
As said earlier, consistency
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/788884e46fe53c0caac768c8bd524bd0.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/af7c92d00c5fc01dbd1b28557db657c4.jpg

[fouronesix]

I haven't seen a 62 caliber Big Chief pencil since 1st grade :)

Seriously, very nice shooting! Don't even have to measure to confirm sub MOA.

[Plastikosmd]

Thx, it is the rifle, Not me!
Ok bullet but not inline, not even this century, or last
Pierce rifle, 2 piece slug
Reworked and shot by Lester Cox, then by Gerry D.(whom I purchased it from.)
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/31e1f88e.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/c7823d41.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/3a9189fe.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/8b9dcfb5.jpg
It also took 1st at Camp Perry at 600, shot by Lester, typing hard to read
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/afffa3c8.jpg

[10 ga]

My hunting ML all shoot sub MOA to 200 or better. BUT I left the holy black and subs behind in 07 and now shoot smokeless ML. Have 3 Savage MLIIs, 2 Remmy 700ML upgrades and 1 Encore conversion. The remmys, Encore and 2 of the Savage all have been tweaked more than a bit and shoot sub MOA if I'm doin my part. And that is MOA or better out to 200+. The other Savage is in the midst of being a project and will be a shooter when finished I'm sure. Also have a White "Bison" that will do MOA and it has had no tweaking other than bedding, boy do those Whites shoot, best black/sub shooters ever made. 10 ga

[bigted]

I absolutely love the looks of those slug guns. gotta try 1 one of these days. srry but they just hold a spot of presents that no other target rifles can possibly hold.

[Plastikosmd]

They are special, not for everyone but fun