Dicovered something a bit disturbing 'bout my 44-250-K .44 mag load

[hanabi]

Hi folks, new guy here.
I've had a '62 vintage Super Blackhawk for a bit and one of my favorite bullets
for it is the RCBS 44-250-K. The one shown here is loaded with a stout, under
max, charge of WC820 for steel plates. I gave it a pretty good roll crimp with a
Redding profile crimp die. Recently I picked up a Ruger .44 special flattop and
decided to see if the RCBS bullets would poke out the chamber. Dropped it into
the special cylinder and here is how it fit:

853338533485335

Isn't the magnum load spose to 'bottom' out so you cannot fit it into the special
cylinder? This here looks like an accident waiting to happen if both revolvers
make it to the range at the same time.

Joe O

[bhn22]

The bullet should fit the throats regardless. It does appear that you have a rather deep chamber in your 44 however. Call Ruger and ask them what's going on.

[williamwaco]

You didn't specify if that was loaded in a Magnum or a Special case?

The case length is what "should not" fit in the Special chamber.

The bullet should work with either.

Also:

With Magnum cases, your "pretty good roll crimp" will no doubt slip ant least part way into the throat.

[hanabi]

WW .44 magnum cases trimmed to 1.280"
I have Starline special cases on back order, so haven't played with those yet.

[MT Gianni]

At the bare minimum i would get some nail polish and mark my magnum cases. I would also contact Ruger re their specs for the gun.

[leftiye]

What's to say that the steel in that "44 special" cylinder isn't the same as in all Blackhawgs, including 44 mag? Looks to me like a .44 mag cylinder got put on his "44 special." Still, you might want to do sum checkin' before you put full house .44 mag. loads in that.

[stocker]

First try inserting a new 44 magnum case in the cylinder. Leave it straight sided, no crimp roll. If it doesn't go in that way but does when crimped on a bullet you may have a situation that could cause a rapid pressure spike for lack of room for the case mouth to expand into if a loaded 44 mag round was fired. I'd be inclined to contact Ruger if this situation is present. A new cylinder may be required to avoid a blow up. Any chance it was reamed longer by a previous owner?

[TXGunNut]

+1 on the condition stocker described, if that's not present you could apply the logic that the BH frames safely handle hot 45 Colt loads that rival hot 44 Mag loads but the cylinder may or may not have been designed for those pressures. As you may know Uncle Elmer developed his 44 mag loads in 44 Spl guns....but he eventually blew up the guns! An inquiry to Ruger sounds like the safest route. In the meantime I'd use a Sharpie to mark the heads of my mag loads...this old bachelor doesn't keep nail polish around. I loaded some pretty stout loads for my 45 Colt BH awhile back and I had to segregate loads when I started shooting SAA Colts & clones.

[nicholst55]

The .44 Special Blackhawks are built on the mid-size Anniversary/New Vaquero (flattop) frame, which is NOT rated for magnum pressures. I would say this is a potentially dangerous situation, that Ruger needs to be aware of. Regardless if the chambers were cut too deep or the crimp on the Magnum load allows it to seat in the Special chamber, methinks that something is amiss!~

[bugs]

I have one of the Ruger .44 spl and .44mags will NOT fit my gun if I where you I would be giving Ruger a call

[timbuck]

I have one of the Ruger .44 spl and .44mags will NOT fit my gun if I where you I would be giving Ruger a call
And Ruger will tell you not to use reloads in their guns.

[Piedmont]

That stinks. I think some of the 1980s S&W .44 Specials would do that, too. You almost need a base gun and a sack full of cash and a good revolver smith to get a revolver made right. The revolver in the original post will never shoot as well as it would with shorter chambers. So Ruger hamstringed it from the factory.

I suspect if we checked chamber lengths on our other revolvers we would be shocked. This example has the potential for some liability (magnum rounds fired in a special gun), but on our .357 Mags, .41 Mags, 44 Mags, and .45 Colts, what is the downside for a manufacturer cutting a long chamber? Most of us, even most of un on this board, will never know because we will never check that. So some manufacturers probably just err on the side of making them too long. It is similar to making the front band on a cast bullet too small. It stops most of the complaints about ammo not chambering in a gun even though it isn't the correct way to make it.

[TXGunNut]

How old is this flattop, OP?

[hanabi]

I purchased it NIB from a friend who bought two of the original Lipsey's .44 specials.
I took the 4-5/8" and he kept the 5-1/2". I'm going to acquire some factory .44 mag
and try the same thing just for kicks.

[Mal Paso]

The revolver in the original post will never shoot as well as it would with shorter chambers.

My thought too.

Ruger will fix it because it's a safety issue but I'll bet it shoots better without that boolit jump to throat.

[runfiverun]

ruger is known for cutting their chambers a bit on the long side.
my first vaquero needed 454 cases trimmed back about half way to 45 colt length to fit their cylinders.

[rintinglen]

85627something is rotten in Denmark there. I just tried a 44 Mag in my own 44 Special Blackhawk. Couldn't close the loading gate.

[hanabi]

Just talked to Ruger. The gent on the other end told me it was OK to fire the magnum in the special!
I informed him the SAAMI pressure spec of the magnum was more than double that of the special.
He shuffled some papers and then said the special was rated for 180 to 240 grain bullets and the magnum
was rated for 180 to 300 grain bullets![smilie=b:

When I told him you risk BLOWING UP a special if used at magnum pressure levels, he took my number
and said an engineer would get back to me.

So here I wait.

[gray wolf]

He shuffled some papers and then said the special was rated for 180 to 240 grain bullets and the magnum
was rated for 180 to 300 grain bullets!
I think he should stick to the paper shuffling and leave the gun stuff alone.i
I don't think a 44 mag. should chamber in a 44 special, sounds a little bass acwords to me.

[Mk42gunner]

Just talked to Ruger. The gent on the other end told me it was OK to fire the magnum in the special!
I informed him the SAAMI pressure spec of the magnum was more than double that of the special.
He shuffled some papers and then said the special was rated for 180 to 240 grain bullets and the magnum
was rated for 180 to 300 grain bullets![smilie=b:

When I told him you risk BLOWING UP a special if used at magnum pressure levels, he took my number
and said an engineer would get back to me.

So here I wait.

Gee, I hope you got this idiots name so he can be given duties other than answering technical questions. That really sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen in todays society.

Robert

[rintinglen]

Just a thought, but measure the outside diameter of the cylinder. Is it 1.675 inches? (Mas o menos). The SBH, iirc, has a cylinder diameter of 1.730 inches. While the regular BH has the smaller cylinder.

[PS Paul]

IIRC, the same NM BH flattop from Lipsey's, which I currently own, in .45 Colt is rated for max pressure of 23,000 CUP. Seems to me that .44 Spl. would then be rated somewhere around 26,000 (this is just a guess, considering additional cylinder metal and NOT their specs) max pressure, which is well below 44 mag max pressure. So yeah, a problem in my eyes if they are saying it's fine to shoot the 44 mag in this smaller, .357-sized frame with flattop. Yikes.

O bet the Ruger fella did not consider the smaller frame size whilst giving his "advice", but that same .44 Sp;. flattop was a regular production gun and NOT JUST a Lipsey's special run.....

[hanabi]

Well, Andy at Ruger called back after he and his supervisor had a pow-wow with engineering RE: my flat top .44 special chamber.
Turns out, surprise-surprise, the special cylinder is different than the Super Blackhawk cylinder. Ruger wants to check my Blackhawk
out and is sending me packaging to ship it back to them on their dime. Oh, they also asked me not to fire any magnum ammo in it
in the interim.

Joe O

[Mk42gunner]

Seems like that is the best way to go.

Let us know how it shoots when it comes back, please.

Robert

[Iowa Fox]

Let us know how this turns out for sure

[hanabi]

Roger that. Should get my packaging from Ruger sometime next week.

Joe O

[TXGunNut]

I'm glad Andy and his boss got to have a little chat with an engineer, hope they took the time to educate him about pressure limits and such.

[ironhead7544]

With a heavy crimp, it is possible to get a 44 Magnum round into a 44 Special revolver chamber. Tolerances can add up. Not likely with factory ammo.

Stuff happens. Be careful.

[Fernando]

Updates??:veryconfu
This is so sad it's funny - I can't believe what I've seen happen in the last 45 years or so.

[osteodoc08]

Could you give us some specs on your load including case length and COAL please. I'm interested to find out what ruger says.