Lee sprue plate bolt issues

[Grumpa72]

Looking for some advice and help here. I cast a lot of .45 acp and I have a one year old Lee 6 cavity TL 230 grain mold that is giving me fits. The steel bolt striped out the aluminum mold and now my sprue plate is too loose to allow accurate molds. I sent this mold back to Lee a couple of months ago for that problem and today it did the same thing, stripping out the hole in the mold. Obviously, the steel pivot pin is harder than the aluminum mold but I was gently tightening the sprue plate whenever it loosened up. My technique is to fill the cavities, cut the bullet with the sprue plate and then tap the pivot bolt on the Lee handles which causes the bullets to drop free. No banging on the mold or sprue plate. Every once in a while I have to give the sprue plate bolt a 1/4 turn or so to keep it tight.

Why doesn't this aluminum mold have a pressed in steel threaded insert for the sprue pivot and what can be done? I think that this mold is toast and I need something to continue casting. Am I the Lone Ranger here? My searching tells me that others have seen this issue too.

[mikeym1a]

Sounds like you need to have the unit helicoiled. If you aren't familiar, the hole is drilled out, and then a tap is run into the hole. Then a coil of stainless steel threads are run into the hole. These threads are sized to you bolt, giving you steel threads in your aluminum body. If you are handy with tools, you can do it yourself. I have a couple lee molds that are loose there, and I've been thinking of doing that. Hope this helps. mike

[Walter Laich]

while not a solution to your problem I always drill a hole 90° to the sprue screw. This is on side of mold. Tap it and use a 6-32 allen screw. This holds the sprue screw tight and doesn't let it get loose from the back and forth movement of the sprue plate.
I put a shot pellet in first so the set screw is not buggering the threads of the sprue screw.

You also could drill out the stripped threads and open up the sprue plate hole and tap for a larger screw. That might save your mold if the helicoil is too big and would take out a cavity when installed.

[Dusty Bannister]

One easy method to prevent the sprue pivot bolt from stripping out is to drill and tap the block for a set screw. If the bolt does not move, it will not need tightening and you will not strip out the threads. Once you do a helicoil repair, you are not going to drill and tap for a set screw.

Now then, please notice that the sprue plate hold down bolt and the sprue pivot bolt in the 6 cav molds are the same size so you can swap ends and start all over. This time, use the helicoil repair for the sprue plate hold down bolt as there is very little stress on this part. Then drill and tap for a set screw on the other hole and install the sprue plate pivot bolt and seat the set screw.

It might be a good idea to lightly lap the top of the mold on a flat surface to remove the grooves you probably have already made by a poorly fitting sprue plate. Since you do have an indication of sticking bullets. Lightly lap the cavities with a fine compound and you should be able to avoid beating up your mold in the future. Take care. Dusty

[Grumpa72]

Good suggestions however I having difficulty imagining what the bolt 90 degrees to the sprue plate bolt looks like. If I imagine this correctly, on the same side of the mold as the sprue plate hole I drill a hole, tap it and use something, either the bolt head or shot pellet, to press on the bolt and keep it from turning? Anyone have photos of this?

Yes, I am familiar with helicoils and their use. As the owner of a 45 year old classic car, one has to be. However, it is my understanding that the cost of the helicoil exceeds the cost of a new Lee mold. So, I get my new mold and do this set screw modification cheaper than the cost of the helicoil.

[joesig]

However, it is my understanding that the cost of the helicoil exceeds the cost of a new Lee mold. So, I get my new mold and do this set screw modification cheaper than the cost of the helicoil.

If you are on a budget, a short length of 3/8 bolt (all-thread) drilled and tapped will work too. A bottom tap would be nice for the 3/8 threads in the mold. For the Sprue screw threads, a taper or plug tap will work if you drill and tap the bolt before screwing it into the block.

If you get the fancy Helicoil set, yes. If you just buy the tap and some inserts, they are close. Besides, tools are forever. You will have to make an insertion tool. I will assume you already have a drill close to the same size.


www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-tap-helicoil.htm

http://www.use-enco.com
http://www.mcmaster.com
http://www.mscdirect.com/

[captaint]

First remove the sprue plate screw (very easy in your case). Then drill & tap, on the short end of the mold, for a set screw to jam against the sprue plate screw - keeping it from getting loose. The lead shot is to prevent the set screw from damaging the threads on the sprue plate screw. There may be pic's under Leementing the Lee mold. Mike

[Dusty Bannister]

Good suggestions however I having difficulty imagining what the bolt 90 degrees to the sprue plate bolt looks like. If I imagine this correctly, on the same side of the mold as the sprue plate hole I drill a hole, tap it and use something, either the bolt head or shot pellet, to press on the bolt and keep it from turning? Anyone have photos of this?


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?654-Sure-Fire-Lee-Menting-Technique-(Aimoo-Post-Revisited)/page4

Look at post #68. This works on either 1, 2, or 6 cav Lee molds.

Cost? Well, if you have a discontinued mold that works well, it is sort of priceless isn't it? On the other hand, if you would rather buy a new mold, roll the dice, and see if you get a good one, go for it. I usually put a bit of time in my molds so the cost is not really part of the thought process.
Dusty

[captaint]

Drill & tap the hole at a 90 degree angle to the sprue plate screw. Look at the 5th pic in post #68 in the link above. That's the deal. Put a piece of shot under the set screw to prevent damage to the sprue plate screw threads. Mike

[Grumpa72]

Dusty,
Great photos and they clear this up for me. Thank you. Also, your suggestion to "swap ends" with the the shoulder bolts works. Before I go any further, I am going to get the appropriate tools and fix my .45 mold and then, at a later date, do my 9mm and .40 S&W six cavity molds.

Captaint,
I don't have access to a drill press but I am thinking that careful alignment with a vise and a drill will make this work adequately since the purpose is to jam to pivot pin. Sound workable?

Thank you all for your advice. I did fire off an email to Lee and got back the following which is a "now you tell me" moment. I will admit that my lubrication of the pivot pin has been lax.
"Frequent lubrication of the sprue pivot point is necessary to prevent the sprue plate bolt from loosening. Also, never tighten the pivot bolt when the mold is at casting temperature, always let it cool to room temperature, before torquing/tightening fasteners. Lubricate the pivot point with beeswax, never/anti seize, or two stroke motor oil. If the pivot bolt is loosening, it is symbolic of the sprue plate seizing on the bolt, basically it acts as a 12 inch wrench on the bolt, lubrication is VITAL.

The tapped hole you have now stripped out can be repaired with a Heli-Coil, a local machine shop can do this for you. Or you may find it easier to purchase a new mold. Lee Precision does not offer a Heli-Coil service on damaged molds."

[Springfield]

I prefer Timeserts( http://www.timesert.com/ ) as they are steel and after installing them you can still put in a set screw. LEE is full of it, even if you keep your mould lubed the pivot WILL eventually loosen. Maybe in 100 bullets, maybe 1000 but it will do it.

[bhn22]

Is Lee still using those damn self-tapping screws to hold the sprue plate down?

[Grumpa72]

Is Lee still using those damn self-tapping screws to hold the sprue plate down?

No. Standard or flat bottom shoulder bolt with a flex/warp washer underneath.

$3.78 is what it took to fix my mold. Oh, and 10 minutes. The $3.78 was for six allen set screws, 3 short and 3 medium, one new #25 drill bit (just in case) and the five minute drive to my local mom & pop hardware store. It took me about 10 minutes to do the .45 acp mold and about 6-7 minutes each for my 9mm and .40 S&W molds. The latter two weren't malfunctioning but this is preventative. Just a side note, some suggested a helicoil or similar and I chose to try one of the set screws to hold the sprue plate pin in. As was suggested, this is a low stress area and I want to see if I can do this without helicoil'ing it.

Gentlemen,
THANK YOU. My search had turned up the original "lee-menting" thread but it was so long and I didn't see what I was looking for in the first couple of pages. THANK YOU again.

I'll be casting some more here soon.

grumpa72

[MacFan]

Ditto on the side set screw, I use 6-32's.
A little late but I've also learned to add a .002" thick stainless shim/washer on the sprue plate screw, under the plate, to hold it slightly off the aluminum to stop galling on the top of the mold.

[leadman]

A large bolt can be used as previously suggested but I think the correct size is 5/16". At least the one I just measured is. All it would take is a 5/16" NC tap and the appropriate length fastener. Doing the lock screw on the side of the mold would be good also.
Lubrication is important for the pivot as this is a weak point on a Lee mold.
The 2 custom molds from Mountain and Accurate I looked at have a large headed allen bolt for the pivot and hold down, none of the Lee spring washers and they work fine.

[jmort]

Here is best thread I have seen on this "fix" - thread is for 2 cavity, but principal is the same.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?206539-fixing-lee-2cav-sprue-screw-for-dummies-amp-rednecks

[Grumpa72]

Last night I cast for about 45 minutes and everything went well.

Now, the big question - why do you guys come up with a simple fix for a known problem and the engineers at Lee Precision can't? They tell me to lube the pivot point with wax which I now do a lot more than before. I am not an engineer but putting a steel pin/bolt/doohickey in an aluminum mold and then operating it at 650 degrees seems like an odd thing and goes against common sense. Why isn't the pivot point set into a steel insert? Don't get me wrong, I really like most Lee products, especially the ease of use for their molds and I REALLY LOVE the Lee Classic Turret.

Thank you again.

[theperfessor]

Now, the big question - why do you guys come up with a simple fix for a known problem and the engineers at Lee Precision can't?

Price point.

[Grumpa72]

Price point.

That, of course, is the bottom line for every company that makes something, which I understand. Oth, I sent my mold back, they fixed it and it broke again. My point is that, if they had put a set screw in to solve the problem, the money they spent on repairs, mailing, time away from manufacturing etc, would be nil. If I spent $3.78 and modified 3 molds. Assuming that a company such as that has quantity purchases, their cost would be pennies.

Just saying. Again, I really like most Lee products, some just need tweaking it seems.

[jmort]

I am happy with the $20.00 two cavity mold and $35.00 six cavity molds from Lee Precision. incredible value that may or may not need some attention.

[fcvan]

My first Lee, a 356-125 2R (1985) has dropped over 500k. The screw finally stripped out a couple years ago. I drilled it, replaced with a SS bolt and voila, it is back in business. If it ever loosens up I with drill and tap a set screw for it and each of the other 18 or so Lee molds I own. I've only had 2 strip out so far

[JWFilips]

My First 6 banger Lee mould worked ok But I decided to "leement it" The first thing I did was polish out the sprue plate which was gouging the top of the mould ....you guessed it...... remove the sprue plate screw once and it is finished! It will never hold again. So drilling & tapping a hex head set screw did the trick However Instead of using a piece of Lead shot between the set screw & the Sprue plate screw I cut a piece of copper # 12 wire as square as I could & dropped it in the hole first, then turned in the set screw. It worked so well I now have added that little copper buffer on all my moulds including my antique Ideal's This way I feel better about getting the moulds too hot for that little lead shot! Maybe it is over engineering?