Ideas? 9MM Military Brass Primer Pocket Swagging [Archive]

Dutchninja

10-24-2013, 09:02 PM

dbosman

10-24-2013, 10:58 PM

Find a reasonably local commercial re-loader and pay them to process for you.

coleman

10-25-2013, 03:48 AM

http://inlinefabrication.com/collections/dillon/products/centering-inserts-for-the-dillon-superswage-1

Use a piece of plastic hose of the right diameter over the swaging post that will still fit inside the case to help center it up better or make something like the inline fab plastic insert for the 9mm case.

Bullshop Junior

10-25-2013, 05:05 AM

I always used a well sharpened RCBS deburing tool to remove all primer pocket crimps. It's faster then the swager in my opinion.

Dutchninja

10-25-2013, 06:39 AM

Already have a message in to inline about a 9mm spacer.

As for a commercial reloader, no luck yet. Been looking for someone with a 1050 for a while.

btroj

10-25-2013, 07:50 AM

I always used a well sharpened RCBS deburing tool to remove all primer pocket crimps. It's faster then the swager in my opinion.
That works well too. I do that to some cases with no bevel around the primer pocket to help guide new primers into place.

How much easier can it be than this?

Prospector Howard

10-25-2013, 08:38 AM

That's what I do also. It's a little tricky, but you can get the RCBS tool chucked in a drill. Sure saves time and easier on your wrist. I bought a cheapo Harbor Freight cordless drill just for this, and it works pretty good.
I always used a well sharpened RCBS deburing tool to remove all primer pocket crimps. It's faster then the swager in my opinion.

jmorris

10-25-2013, 09:41 AM

As for a commercial reloader, no luck yet. Been looking for someone with a 1050 for a while.

What would be a reasonable price to pay for having brass sized, deprimed and swaged?

bobthenailer

10-25-2013, 10:17 AM

IMO i would sort out the commercial brass & keep it and sell the military brass to someone else or for scrap and buy once fired commercial brass . its cheep to buy and sometimes its free to pick up at the range. that is how i got mine over 5,000 so far.

Dutchninja

10-25-2013, 02:27 PM

Yeah, but I hate the idea of just scrapping the mil stuff. I've started to sort out the mil as much as I can.

Also inline go back to me, their checking on that insert for 9mm.

Love Life

10-25-2013, 02:46 PM

I like Mil 9mm brass. It may be advantageous to work a deal with a commercial reloader.

Swede44mag

10-25-2013, 02:55 PM

I always used a well sharpened RCBS deburing tool to remove all primer pocket crimps. It's faster then the swager in my opinion.
How do you sharpen a RCBS deburing tool mine has been dull for years. Tip dont use it on nickle brass.

waksupi

10-25-2013, 03:04 PM

How do you sharpen a RCBS deburing tool mine has been dull for years. Tip dont use it on nickle brass.

Send them here, along with all your old dull files. Great results, great price.

http://www.boggstool.com/

Springfield0612

10-25-2013, 03:13 PM

I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I had a frined give me a 50 cal. ammo can full of mil primer 9mm brass. I was wanting this one for awhile: http://www.ch4d.com/equipment/case-tools/psk. But I was in at Sportsmans Warehouse last night and they had the RCBS swager 2: https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=6211.
So I took the leap and got the RCBS for $33 with my military discount last night and sat down and deprimed and swaged about 200 9mm. Yea......... I'm not liking the RCBS. I did 200 and looked down and saw that I barely made a dent in the brass and was quite disoucraged. I did seat some primers afterwards and it got an A+ on that note!
The only reason I may keep the RCBS is becasue I've got a surgery next week that will leave me couch bound and down for the better part of 14 days and the RCBS will definately not allow me to run out of work anytime soon. I like the look of the CH4D unit it seems it would be easier because you don't have to pry the shell off the little swager nub. You slide the shell in the holder and run the swager rod up. Seems like I'd be able to get more brass done faster with the CH4D.

My thought process is:
1. Load up my Lee Pro 1000 back out the powder and the seating dies, put in the universal depriming die and run the lever like a mad man to quickly deprime all the brass.
2. Sit on the couch hook in the CH4D kit and swage away.
Granted I'm not processing 20K like you would be. Anyone have experience with the CH4D?

bstone5

10-25-2013, 03:23 PM

Put the deburing tool in a drill press, use to remove swag in primer pocket, takes a few seconds per case.

Done thousands of military 5.56, 308 and 9 mm.

williamwaco

10-25-2013, 03:25 PM

I use a 1/4" drill bit in a cordless drill.

You will ruin the first four or five until you get the "touch" just right. And - that is all it is, a touch.

If you get set up in an efficient manner, you can do 15 to 20 per minute.

David2011

10-25-2013, 03:48 PM

Years ago I didn't know about the Inline Fabrication inserts so I made one. I mixed some slow cure epoxy with milled glass fibers which make it thick and add a great deal of strength. Some black coloring pigment (from an Acra-glas kit) was added for looks. I put a piece of plastic shopping bag in the Dillon Super Swage with a glob of the epoxy on it and another piece of shopping bag over the epoxy. It's really thin and most shopping bags are a polypropylene that doesn't stick to epoxy very well. I haven't tried it with polyethylene. Then a cartridge was put in the swage, the punch was closed into the primer pocket and it was left overnight to cure. The next day the insert was removed and cleaned up with sandpaper. The plastic bag peeled off easily. It fits closely in the swage and locates the cases dead center every time so no more cases are damaged by being off center. It really speeds up the operation of the Super Swage.

There are you YouTubes on automating the Super Swage with rubber bands or springs and string or fine cable. It works really well.

David

Dutchninja

10-29-2013, 02:50 PM

Might have found someone with a 1050 somewhat nearby, I like the plastic insert idea though.i have some left over devcon I could use.

Artful

11-01-2013, 08:05 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C34sRku4ASY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pnD1gO4GgU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaZHeSUqQbk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGOSrjbssw

blikseme300

11-01-2013, 08:22 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C34sRku4ASY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pnD1gO4GgU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaZHeSUqQbk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHGOSrjbssw

Nice simple mod Artful. :drinks:

dragon813gt

11-01-2013, 08:59 PM

Anyone have experience with the CH4D?

I have one and it's good and bad. Once set up it works reasonably well. I used it this week and for some reason it wasn't working like it did in thr past. If you set it to run the plunger to high you will push the case up in the shell holder and crack the case head. This is one of the bad things because it relies on the case to shell holder pressure to swage the pocket. I wouldn't want to do thousands at a time on it. I typically run a hundred through at a time. I wish I knew why it wasn't working the other night. I didn't find out it wasn't until I went to seat the primers.

spfd1903

11-02-2013, 12:06 AM

I have one and it's good and bad. Once set up it works reasonably well. I used it this week and for some reason it wasn't working like it did in thr past. If you set it to run the plunger to high you will push the case up in the shell holder and crack the case head. This is one of the bad things because it relies on the case to shell holder pressure to swage the pocket. I wouldn't want to do thousands at a time on it. I typically run a hundred through at a time. I wish I knew why it wasn't working the other night. I didn't find out it wasn't until I went to seat the primers.

I noticed the same problem with the CH4D. Damaged a lot of case heads even after I thought it was adjusted and indexed properly. Bought the RCBS bench mounted swager about two years ago. Processed several thousand primer pockets in 9mm, .30-06, and .223 Rem. It takes a few minutes to dial in the head support rod to the proper distance, but after that it stays consistent.

jmorris

11-02-2013, 04:54 PM

If you have buckets of the stuff, you were right thinking 1050.

This video is of the last 1050 I converted prepping brass at around 80 per minute.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/auto%201050/th_VID_20130629_165943_746_zps1fffb858.jpg (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/auto%201050/VID_20130629_165943_746_zps1fffb858.mp4)

xman777

11-02-2013, 04:59 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm3v0MSqnC0

Here's what I do on a Dillon 650

jmorris

11-02-2013, 05:50 PM

Dutchninja

11-03-2013, 10:12 PM

That swager replacement from GS would be nice if I had a 650, went with the Hornady AP instead several years ago. (have nothing against Dillion though)

Love the video Jmorris, let me know if you live near WI. Thing is though, I don't even know how much 9mm I actually have. I'm trying to move as much 38 special as I can till I can find time to get at the 9mm. The other problem is that it is mixed some commercial brass as well. There is going to be alot of time invested in just sorting. It's there just waiting for me behind buckets and buckets of 38 special.

jmorris

11-04-2013, 10:02 AM

I don't sort 9mm by primer pocket style, that is the reason behind having a reloader that swages every case as part of normal operation. Even if it doesn't need any swage, it's there for the ones that do.

That's why I asked what you though it would be worth to process the brass back in post #8. What you are willing to spend will have an effect on what method you use.

xman777

11-04-2013, 07:26 PM

There are a few threads on that one at Enos. Dillon said they would not warranty damage caused by the conversion. No backup rod inside the case, so all of the load is put on the shell plate and center bolt.

I've put nearly 24000 rounds through this swager and there is really little force on the shell plate, if any. The swage is relatively low pressure, unless you forget to deprime :)
In fact, since it is done on the up stroke, you are not even close to your maximum pressure band.

Of course Dillon won't warranty something they didn't think of.

Dutchninja

11-04-2013, 10:22 PM

It would be worth sorting out the mil head-stamp and finding someone with a 1050, they get half of whatever they can size and swage. I have to see and get a rough idea from what I have and how much of it is com vs mil. The two bucket I have is running about 60/40 com vs mil.

jmorris

11-05-2013, 12:45 AM

I've put nearly 24000 rounds through this swager and there is really little force on the shell plate, if any. The swage is relatively low pressure, unless you forget to deprime
In fact, since it is done on the up stroke, you are not even close to your maximum pressure band.

Of course Dillon won't warranty something they didn't think of.

Low pressure would be seating a primer, like it was designed for, not swaging brass.

I bet if you lied or didn't tell them what you did they would still give you new parts, they are pretty high road.

Guess I will attach a current thread of a machine they designed to swage primer pockets failing.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?218552-Dillon-Super-Swager-isn-t-so-Super-after-all

xman777

11-05-2013, 06:16 PM

Low pressure would be seating a primer, like it was designed for, not swaging brass.

I bet if you lied or didn't tell them what you did they would still give you new parts, they are pretty high road.

Guess I will attach a current thread of a machine they designed to swage primer pockets failing.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?218552-Dillon-Super-Swager-isn-t-so-Super-after-all

Not sure how you could make that assumption without actually trying it. It takes so little force to swage that brass. I wish I had a way to gauge the pressure, but is very insignificant.
Its kind of like using a reloading press to swage boolits, yea its not "rated" for swaging pressures, but it works!

I'll also mention that the seller will replace your press if you break anything on it. He's confident, I'm confident and that's that.

HATCH

11-06-2013, 08:16 AM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/G-S-Custom-primer-pocket-swager-uniformer-for-Dillon-XL650-223-308-9mm-45-/321242799289?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4acb901cb9

Garyshome

11-06-2013, 08:47 AM

Counter sink in a drill press.

jmorris

11-06-2013, 06:31 PM

Not sure how you could make that assumption without actually trying it. It takes so little force to swage that brass.

If it was less force than it takes to seat a primer, no one would swage pockets because the primer would do it automatically. GS custom also sells tool steel shell plates, in almost 30 years of using Dillon shell plates (as intended) I have never had the need for a stronger one.

I am happy if you are though and I have been guilty of using a screw driver as a pry bar, another unintended use...

W.R.Buchanan

11-07-2013, 07:06 PM

I have done this job on every tool except a D1050. I can do 20-30 per minute with a cordless drill and a countersink. You just lock the trigger on and pick up, chamfer and drop the case.

It's all about the set up and the faster you can handle a case the faster you will go.

There isn't any hand powered method of going faster.

This costs $6 for a decent countersink bit, and most everyone has a cordless drill or a regular drill that can be hooked to something to hold it stationary.

Randy

jmorris

11-08-2013, 12:26 AM

There isn't any hand powered method of going faster.

Swaging (and loading) 100 rounds by hand in 2.5 min.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/th_1050.jpg (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/1050.mp4)

Dutchninja

11-08-2013, 10:11 AM

HATCH, They need to make it for the Hornady AP press. I don't have a 650 or know anyone who does, yet. I can't justify another press just to swage out some 9. The Hornady press looks like you could replace the primer stem underneath the plate with a similar device.

W.R.Buchanan

11-09-2013, 03:23 PM

Morris: By hand I meant something like an RCBS Swage Die or a Dillon 600 or the new RCBS thing like the Dillon. It's all about the amount of time handling the cases.

Most people would take too long just to set up the 1050! if they had one in the first place.

I don't see why you haven't automated that press to do mindless work like case prep? How many of these things do you have? :kidding:

Randy

robertbank

11-16-2013, 04:22 PM

zuke

11-18-2013, 08:33 AM

Counter sink in a drill press.

Or a cordless drill

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-In-1-Hex-Bit-Countersink-Tool-wood-metal-PVC-/281197142458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4178a7e1ba#ht_502wt_892

T-Man

11-18-2013, 12:22 PM

I have a LEE reamer mounted on a hardwood dowel that I use to trim primer pockets. I load a lot of mi-spec brass in 30/06, 9mm and 45acp. three or four quick turns will remove the crimp on 99.9% of any brass out there. Only takes a few seconds

W.R.Buchanan

11-18-2013, 01:24 PM

The auto eject for the D600 is one of the coolest things I have ever seen. Just goes to show you when enough people put their minds to work something will come out the other end.

Randy

Kanitz8541

11-18-2013, 08:34 PM

Be careful with 9 mm military brass. i have shot a lot of it while in the service. i never would pick it because upon close inspection ive found some lots have over pressuring problems. ive found quite a few split casings.

Adam10mm

12-09-2013, 01:39 AM

I've been looking for any suggestions, ideas, or other options for different ways to swag the primer pockets on 9mm military brass. I have a Dillion super swag and have done a few thousand 5.56, 06, and 308 cases. However, I have about 10-20K plus of 9mm that is mixed commercial and military head stamp brass. Trying a few rounds of 9mm on the Dillion, I found it much more cantankerous than any of the cases mentioned above. I have the RCBS swagging die that uses a single stage as well, but again I'm looking for a bit more mass production. Please do not suggest a Dillion 1050, I have looked at them but do not have $1500-1700 to drop on one of those, although it is tempting. I'm not going to scrap them either and use the funds to buy commercial brass.

Find a reasonably local commercial re-loader and pay them to process for you.
Kind of late to the party, so to speak, as I found this thread during a search for another term.

I'm a commercial reloader with a Dillon Super 1050 and a setup for 9mm. Ship the brass to me and I can process it on my 1050 and swage everything. I'm changing the press over in the morning for 9mm to load some ammo for some USPSA competition shooters that I sponsor. It will stay setup in 9mm for a while as I'm making a large run of 147gr subsonic ammunition for a decent (for me) wholesale order.

$10/K and brass must be cleaned when I get it. Just pay return shipping or if you can meet in person along the WI/MI border, kick me $20-25 for gas money as it's a 2hr drive for me. Giving me a cushion as this is a part time business, one week to process everything that quantity and return ship or meet up on the following weekend to return your brass. PM me if you want to discuss further.

jmorris

12-09-2013, 10:15 AM

$10/K and brass must be cleaned when I get it.

That offer is going to be very hard to beat.

oldtrucks

12-09-2013, 01:19 PM

I find the case processing step with the Super Swage goes pretty quick. I usually only do a couple thousand cases at a time so it doesn't become too overwhelming. Makes me slow down, I listen to a good podcast and take my mind off the day to day nonsense.

I have the In Line insert and wrap masking tape around the smaller metal dowel, just enough so a case slides on and off easily.