New wrinckle to my easy pc.

[Freightman]

I was reading Rangefinders thread on using a tumbler, and I have a extra tumbler container so. I put 60 500gr 45 boolits in and put 1 tbl spoon of Harbor Freight yellow powder in and NO solvent then turned it on. It coated the boolits great and it stayed on while I set them up. They are now baking and look great will post picture tomorrow as it is late now.
I used ONLY powder NO solvent and it covered great and even. YEMV but I have been PC ing dry for a while now with no problems. I have pushed a 200gr PC boolit no GC to 2500fps accuracy was as good as lubed and FPS was much higher . Hope this helps! and I had 1/2 tbl spoon powder left!

[3006mv]

Whoah, wow I would never have thought to do that. So what do they feel like before you bake them? What would happen if you sprayed them with lacquer thinner or acetone and then baked them?

[Freightman]

Why? the powder sticks be careful picking them up set them up and enjoy. The .30 cal boolits I just spread out on a piece if 1/4" hail screen and bake, never been able to sit them up. Now I did drill a 100 holes a little larger than the 30 cal and sit them in it with good results, and will do that from now on. I took the GC out of my 200 gr boolit mold and it works fine, so it is now a PB but if I had to do it over I would just order a PB mold. I got a little to deep on it and took the next band out.
The holes were drilled in a 2X8" cut to fit my oven and it don't catch fire :-P
If you are not happy with the first coat do it again, but you will have to size them as it adds 0.0025" to the boolit per coat.

[Smoke4320]

Freightman is that a vibrating tumbler or a rotary tumbler ?
thanks

[Beagle333]

I must have a different kind of powder. Mine just clumps to the boolits in globs (like it was wet, but..... it's not). But fortunately, when I pour thinner over it and tumble, the clumps dissolve and it just goes back to being the Rangefinder method without messing up any boolits. :smile:
(But I had rather do it dry....:roll:) 'May need to try other kinds of powder.

[3006mv]

I just thought you needed solvent to activate and cure the epoxy. But I guess all you need is baking.

[popper]

200gr PC boolit no GC to 2500fps That is an accomplishment! 30 cal? Accuracy? I assume you pick them out of the tumbler with tweezers or something?

[Freightman]

Popper I backed off the load that was just a test to see if I could do it and that is a max load for Jacketed with the powder I was using. Accuracy is more like 2000-2100 fps. The tumbler is a vibrator and never had a problem with it not covering, I do warm the boolits it helps. NOT HOT! Just seems less messy and I can use the powder again if they need a second coat. I pick the boolits out with my fingers carefully I try to do it by the nose but it don't hurt to just pick up YEMV but it works for me

[3006mv]

Wow glad I stumbled upon this thread!
I have a small HF rotary tumbler, I put a small cream cheese tub in one of the small rubber drums and added flat black HF powder coat and .224 boolits in. I baked them and repeated process a second time for better coverage. They came out much better than my lacquer thinner mixed ones that's for sure. But I ran into a strange issue. I culled a few that were bent or melted oval/flatter or tips bend downward? I know they were not like that before I put them in the oven at 400F for 20 min.s! I think that in my little oven the ones over the element are the ones that got misshapen? Is this possible?

[Beagle333]

You need a thermometer to test your oven. I have seen toaster ovens make a puddle of boolits. They will get quite hotter than 400 degrees in some cases.
A lot hotter.

[3006mv]

Yeah thanks I will get one, for the time being I will set the temp down and possibly move the tray height higher, I made screen trays that I can put on top of another thinking I can do two layers thus more bullets at a time, but I will get it down pat first. I don't like to have to cull so many of these little pills after going through this whole process, but it is easier using this dry method at least for me. And with better results, not a smooth finish by rifle bullet standards, almost looks like a hammered finish, which would look great on handgun bullets. But it keeps my AR fed for plinking. I don't plan on doing handgun boolits cuz I am fine with my recluse mix. I may try .358 to push through faster out of my marlin though, I have a .44 mag load that does not lead out of my model 94 with alox

[Freightman]

Glad to share! this board helped me when I started and is the most helpful on the web.

[3006mv]

^ yes it is, I refer this for people to join from other forums to search and learn.

So sir frank, do you think it would be possible to coat one color and then add another on top? I only have black but do you think your yellow topped with blue would give a nice green color? I really want to have o.d. Green or even just a dark green boolit.

[Freightman]

Try it never tried two different colors might be unique.

[sparky45]

Hey Frank, I missed your after pictures showing the finished product. I'm going to try this (your) method this weekend.
Thanks for the information.

[3006mv]

Here are some of my .224 using this method, note round on top of .300 whisper in mag for photographic purposes only :-P
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a99/3006mv/20131028_184136_resized_zpsa5a7a761.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a99/3006mv/20131028_184224_resized_1-1_zps8d3ae76e.jpg

[Shooter6br]

Old moly coating technique for jacketed bullets. Used small peanut butter jars in Lyman 1200

[Mike Hughes]

Frank, looks like your method is working good

Here are some of my .224 using this method, note round on top of .300 whisper in mag for photographic purposes only :-P
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a99/3006mv/20131028_184136_resized_zpsa5a7a761.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a99/3006mv/20131028_184224_resized_1-1_zps8d3ae76e.jpg

3006mv, those 224 look good. Are you pulling bullets out with your fingers? Are you standing them up in the oven or just laying on screen or foil? I am trying to figure out a way to quickly coat large amounts of the small boolits

[Garyshome]

Need to give this a try!

[3006mv]

No I basically put them in my old moly tub that has a screw top sealing lid, kinda like the dimensions of a lady's cold cream container or something. I was using a philly cheese tub but that lid leaks. I then put this in one of my HF rubber barrel tumbler drums, stuff foam around it and close end w/ aluminum lid and run for 20 mins. I then shake this out on my oven screen over newspaper, you could probably handle them with gloves, the powder is on there coated pretty well and excess shakes off through screen. Then I take screen and bake at 350 for 15 min. I over temped and timed my first batch and it warped the boolits! So those went in the melting pot for ingots. Then I let them cool and take the excess powder on the paper and put them all back in the tumbler drum and repeat. One coat they are speckled, two coats and they are as seen in photo. Someone else on here washes his freshly cast boolits with 50/50 water and liquid dish soap and let's them dry tacky, he finds the powder sticks better (but I have not done this cuz I learned about it later) and this method really works for me. Pm me your load data and I will share mine too. Or I can post here or elsewhere in reloading.

I made my own tray out of some screen I found that looks like honeycomb. I bent the sides so I can stack on top of each other and double or triple volume in my small second hand store oven.

[Mike Hughes]

Thanks for info, I don't have a HF rock tumbler but I do have a spare vibratory tumbler. I think I will combine your way and Frank's method. I am going to dump the dry powder and boolits in the tumbler, let them vibrate for a while, then dump it all out on a wire mesh and catch extra powder below. then put them in the oven and hopefully they will not stick and have a smooth finish. If this works good, I will post some pics

[3006mv]

Cool yeah it should work for you, just don't put hot bullets in powder they will react and stick and get all goopy. I dug out my old VibraTek tumbler but could not find the rubber bowl for it plus it was too loud and obnoxious with the container I had in there and it had a tendency to crawl across the floor. Are you coating the smaller boolits too? They seem to coat better than the pistol and heavier 170 gr .309s I put in, at least they were much more even.

[Mike Hughes]

yep, this technique will mainly be for the .223 62 gr Mihec Nato. Looking for a way to streamline the process and this may be the ticket. Most of my bigger boolits are HP and I use HF PC gun with a jig that is a bed of nails. All pistol caliber, I use Hi-Tek coating.

[Beagle333]

just don't put hot bullets in powder they will react and stick and get all goopy.
This was my experience too.

[Freightman]

need a picture of the bed of nails

[Mike Hughes]

8612386122
need a picture of the bed of nails
These work good with hollow point boolits coating with HF PC gun

[Beagle333]

That is one wicked looking contraption Mike! I like it! 90% of my boolits are HPs.
I don't have a welder, I wonder if I can just JB-Weld a bunch of roofing nails to the back of a license plate. :D
I'm not sure about the conductivity of JB-Weld, but I could push some foil down over the nails before hanging the boolits on them and clip to the foil.


:redneck:

[Mike Hughes]

yea, I think the JB weld would probably work. The pic to the right is a piece of OSB plywood and a piece of aluminum roof flashing with finish nails shot through. That one was really easy to build and works good

[Garyshome]

Use drywall screws in a piece of sheet metal.

[Beagle333]

Use drywall screws in a piece of sheet metal.

This, I have. Thanks!

[sparky45]

Well, I did my first batch of cast with PC. I received some 45's from a member and decided to try Pc'ing a few. Got the yellow HF PC and DRY tumbled them in my Lyman 500. Seemed to coat just fine. I slipped on a pair of Nitrile gloves, placed the cast on a sheet of al. foil. Ran them in my Goodwill Toaster Oven and set the timer on my iphone.
Ding!! Pulled them out and let them cool and this is the result.
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/glynnm1945/PC45sc_zpsde5b4df0.jpg (http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/glynnm1945/media/PC45sc_zpsde5b4df0.jpg.html)
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/glynnm1945/PC45sa_zps39b7ce91.jpg (http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/glynnm1945/media/PC45sa_zps39b7ce91.jpg.html)
Now, they haven't been through the Acetone/Lacquer Thinner/smash tests yet, but I am impressed with the simplistic method of dry tumbling and "cooking" these cast 45's.
What say you?

[xacex]

Very nice! I might have to give this a try for my boolits that are a pain to E/S P/C. Was that one coat, and bake? how long was the tumble?

[sparky45]

Yes, just one time through the bake cycle. I turned on the Lyman 500 for about 1 to 2 minutes. One caveat, I warmed the tray of cast prior to coating, supposed to help the PC to stick.

[Freightman]

It is so simple it is hard to get people to try it.

[sparky45]

I tell you what Frank, If I can make it work ANYONE can make it work. Thanks for the info.

[bangerjim]

You need a thermometer to test your oven. I have seen toaster ovens make a puddle of boolits. They will get quite hotter than 400 degrees in some cases.
A lot hotter.

Early on in the infancy of this PC process, I used a $3 oven from Goodwill. Set the temp at 400 and came back to nice little puddles of lead! Turns out the temp control (very cheeeep) did not work and the temp got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over 400. Checked it with my IR and it read upwards of 540!

Now I use a high-end convection oven that keep the temp dead on 400 every time.

banger

[bangerjim]

^ yes it is, I refer this for people to join from other forums to search and learn.

So sir frank, do you think it would be possible to coat one color and then add another on top? I only have black but do you think your yellow topped with blue would give a nice green color? I really want to have o.d. Green or even just a dark green boolit.

If you will search the threads on PC, I posted several pix using VHT hi-temp copper and Krylon green frig epoxy (both baked on) sprayed on top of my standard pre-baked HF matte black. The matte finish helps other "paints" stick very well. Nothing scrapes off. The key is the base PC coat and then apply the color to the top and bake again.

You can tap the bare end of a pre-coated slug on a rag with acetone and then tap it in a saucer with a different color powder and re-bake for a "PC GC"! Or do it to the business end for that two-tone effect.

banger

[Stilly]

If you will search the threads on PC, I posted several pix using VHT hi-temp copper and Krylon green frig epoxy (both baked on) sprayed on top of my standard pre-baked HF matte black. The matte finish helps other "paints" stick very well. Nothing scrapes off. The key is the base PC coat and then apply the color to the top and bake again.

You can tap the bare end of a pre-coated slug on a rag with acetone and then tap it in a saucer with a different color powder and re-bake for a "PC GC"! Or do it to the business end for that two-tone effect.

banger

Pics or it didn't happen! ;)

I was wondering about this myself. I had sprayed a light coat of Killz oil based primer spray paint onto some 44 mag and I wanna say that one of the bullets was burned through the coating some how. I sprayed it on, then let it dry for about 15 minutes, then dumped them all into the tumbler and let them roll for an hour. I have a timer that will turn off the power after an hour (shortest time) so I let them all roll for an hour. That trick did nothing really, but I think it was because I "cured" them at 450f @15-18 minutes. On the way out now to get some nonstick foil.I have been playing with stuff at my house using the oven. I think the problem I had was most PC I see say cure at 10 minutes @400f Well, I was hitting 15-20 minutes at around 450f so I think it tends to darken/kill the cure perhaps. Some of my earlier ones look like ****, but lately I have dropped a LOT of them in the oven and they have been coming out NICE.

I was thinking what were to happen if I started maybe placing MORE different colors or minor designs on some and popping them back in the oven, like giving them eyeball effects , maybe red streaks down the sides but with a black dot in the middle and a base coat of white. I aint there yet because I am not thrilled about how the powder "sticks" to the first coat. I guess some powders need help sticking to others. HEH, This whole process reminds of working in ceramics class and mixing glazes to see what cool effects you can come up with. I guess there is a potter in all of us... Dry tumble is crazy though, I can not believe how EASY it is to just drop a handful of bullets in the tumbler for an hour and come back, take them out, bake and presto you are done... I do not use gloves to handle them though at all, I just get green cheeto fingers. Should I be wearing nitrile gloves? As a side note it has a funny taste when some fell on a piece of pepperoni that was on a pizza slice I had. Kinda blech, but anyways...
Examples of my green and blue powder mixed.
The stuff in the metal tray was done last night- dropped in bare lead into the powder tumbler, pulled after an hour, put on the tray, some on parchment paper/foil (I do not like the bottoms of those, they look, odd) then baked for 10 minutes @400-425 (the toaster oven is really old and temp adjustment is difficult- it will also stay buzzing all the way through sometimes...) then pulled out and cooled. I think they are the best ones yet so far. Once I size them I will see if they need a second coat. Sometimes resizing jacks them up, but only if the coating is REALLY thick on one side or so it seems...

86579

[3006mv]

this IS the easiest method for sure. one more tip the Reynolds non stick aluminum foil is the ticket for me, no more black marks on my non black PC boolits that was coming from the metal tray.

[Mike Hughes]

I coated some little 223 boolits with Franks easy PC method. This is 2 coats, was real quick and easy.
8691486915

[Freightman]

Mike they look good to.

[popper]

Freightman - What alloy are you using to get the PB to 2500 fps? I've gotten to 2400 with checks, w/o checks would be great. Gees guys, now I got to go tho HF to get a tumbler.

[Freightman]

I use range scrap that is 90% cast boolits understand I took the GC grove out of my mold so there is no space left it is now a plan base boolit

[starmac]

This method sounds simple, right up my alley.

[starmac]

Does the bases on the 45/70 boolits that are standing up, come out with good coverage?

[Freightman]

Yes they do.

[starmac]

Great I was hoping you were going to say that. lol

I talked to my son that has a commercial PC business today. He had not heard of pcing boolits at all. I told him of your method, and the first thing he said is we would need to heat them a little before tumbling or figure out a way to ground them. I wonder how many boolits I can do at a time in a 10 ft oven. lol

[sparky45]

How hot do you get the bullets before tumbling in PC?

[prickett]

I must have a different kind of powder. Mine just clumps to the boolits in globs (like it was wet, but..... it's not). But fortunately, when I pour thinner over it and tumble, the clumps dissolve and it just goes back to being the Rangefinder method without messing up any boolits. :smile:
(But I had rather do it dry....:roll:) 'May need to try other kinds of powder.

I just tried dry tumbling with HF Flat Black and had the same results as you... clumping (ironically, I don't have issues with clumping when mixed with Lacquer Thinner like most do).

I wonder why some are completely successful with this method and others get clumping - while doing the same thing.

Do you having success see clumping and only partial coating after the first coat or is it completely covered? If the former, does the second coat do much better at covering than the first?

[prickett]

Could clumping be the result of too much paint? I tumbled 20 200 gr. boolits in about 1/2 TSP of powder. I tumbled for 20 minutes.

[popper]

Pricket - could it be moisture in the dry powder? I put one of those desiccant thingys in my powder gun to help keep it from clumping.

[Beagle333]

Do you having success see clumping and only partial coating after the first coat or is it completely covered? If the former, does the second coat do much better at covering than the first?

I was not successful at all. I never got past the first coat. It wasn't even a coat, it was bisuit-dough clumpy. The majority of the powder was regular loose, fine powder, but what stuck to the boolits was clumpy. None of the loose powder stuck.
I know it wasn't damp, because I sprayed the rest of it in my gun just fine. I was not using HF powder though.

[Mike Hughes]

Are your boolits too hot causing the powder to melt? I have only used HF red and have only done a few batches of 22 and 30 cal, but have not had any clumping problems at all. I don't preheat boolits in a oven but I used a hairdryer to warm them up a little. I just put some boolits in the tumbler, pour in some powder, and turn it on. I hold the tumbler and tilt to the side. I let it run for 10 or 15 seconds, turn off and add more if needed. I just dump them out onto the oven rack and they come out smoother than I expected.

879738797487977

[xyankeeworkshop]

Good looking boolits, Mike. You guys are really making it hard for me to get off the fence as to what kind of barrel to hang off the front of my AR build.

.300 Blk is tailor-made for casting and coating, but a PC 5.56 that gets the lion's share of j-word velocity, plinking and gungame accuracy, and leaves a clean barrel makes it a real tough call for me.

Indecisions, indecisions...

[prickett]

Are your boolits too hot causing the powder to melt?

I didn't heat them up at all. Sounds like I need to pop them into the oven for a couple of minutes to warm them up. Would 150F be reasonable?


I let it run for 10 or 15 seconds, turn off and add more if needed.

How long do you tumble them overall? I did 20 min. Too long?

[Beagle333]

xyankeeworkshop, looks like the only choice is to build two! :grin:

Yep, those look good, Mike!

[prickett]

I didn't heat them up at all. Sounds like I need to pop them into the oven for a couple of minutes to warm them up. Would 150F be reasonable?



How long do you tumble them overall? I did 20 min. Too long?

I heated up the boolits and tumbled for around 4 minutes. Still getting clumping.

[Mike Hughes]

Don't know what could be causing the clumping. With HF red, I have no trouble. I have some HF black that I need to try and was thinking about picking up some HF yellow and white. Are you using a vibratory tumbler? I leave the lid off and can see the coating cling to boolits.

[prickett]

No, I'm using a Thumber's Tumbler rotary tumbler.

Are any of the people having success using a rotary tumbler?

[Wayne Smith]

Are you guys doing this indoors (temp/humidity controlled) or outdoors in a garage? I'm wondering if local humidity makes a difference in the clumping? Texas, assuming low humidity, no clumping. Ohio, Alabama, assuming high humidity?

[prickett]

I'm wondering if the tumbling container's material might be the cause. I use a Thumbler Tumbler's rubber canister. I'm seeing successful folks mention using Tupperware. Next chance I get I'm going to try that.

[Freightman]

Black don't work for me found out yesterday red,yellow, white work just fine.

[prickett]

Hmmm, has anyone gotten HF Black to work? Seems the common thread is that black paint doesn't work, but Red, White, and Yellow do. Interestingly, it seems to be the opposite when doing the Piglet method (i.e. adding Lacquer Thinner).

[prickett]

I bought some HF Red today and tried tumbling 20 or so boolits and had complete success!

So, if you want to do Piglet, get HF black. If you want to do dry coating, get HF red/yellow/white.

[prickett]

Something else to be thankful for this Thanksgiving: After yesterday's small sample success, I started large scale dry powder coating and the results are equally as good! I load up my rotary tumbler and let it run for 10 minutes with HF red. Cook at max temp of my oven (hits 410ish) for 25 minutes, and repeat. Great results! And dead simple. No measuring, no waste, and 100% coverage (meaning even the lube grooves are covered, for those who worry about that)! And, unlike my previous Piglet coats, this one is very smooth.

I dump the tumbled boolits directly onto the hardware mash screen that I bake them on (have a sheet of paper under neath to catch the excess paint). There is no need to pick up with tweezers or fingers. Shake it a little to knock off any excess paint. Then, I dump what was caught on the paper back into the tumbler for the next batch.

So, anyone not having success with dry powder coating, blame the paint. Not all paint works. HF red DOES. HF black DOES NOT.

[3006mv]

I've gotten it to work on 55 gr .224 boolits, it is matte. It takes two coats. The bigger .45 cal 200 gr need 3 dry coats to work well so I don't even bother. I have not use their other colors but probably will now, I heard you can mix them for different colors like black yellow and red for a kind of copper look, I don't know what ratio though.

[Tonto]

Not sure if this is the variable but HF black is a flat black and the other colors gloss...

[prickett]

Just a follow up to my last post - I shot the dry coated boolits today. The .45 ACP was VERY accurate. And, I only coated them once. So, of all the coating techniques described on this board, I declare this one to be simplest, cheapest, second best looking boolits (where Piglet rates a 5 of 10, Klass Kote a 6 of 10, dry coat 8 of 10, and Hi Tek 10 of 10). Originally I hit the boolits with a quick spray from an aerosol can of silicon to lube for sizing. I've found that isn't even necessary - they are slick enough to not require any lube. The barrel had NO leading. My search for the perfect coating is over - for the .45.

Now for the bad news - my 9mm's were not so good. The very first one key holed, it appeared. I proceeded to shoot 39 more, trying to see if the first was really a key hole. Of the 40 total, only 2 key holed. But accuracy wasn't great. When I got home, I found the barrel was lightly leaded. I think what is happening is that the wheel weights, which I always water drop, had lost their quenched hardness following the baking of the PC. So, the higher pressure of the 9mm rendered these borderline satisfactory. Next week I'm doing a battle royale test, pitting dry coat, piglet coat, HI-TEK, and traditional lead (all from the same batch of cast boolits) to compare accuracy. I'm wondering if I just need to let the baked dry coated boolits sit for a month to age harden.

[Beagle333]

this thread needs more pictures..... :veryconfu

[popper]

Pricket - just put those PC'd 9s back in the oven for 40 min ~370-380 then WD. They will work fine. I H-T'd 9s, 3 coats, let the last coat cook @ 350 for 30 min, WD. All shot fine and no leading. I WD everything coated, which is everything now.

[Cane_man]

just getting ready to get into this, i notice two different types of powders used:

Epoxy Resin Powder - this seems to be what Harbor Freight sells

Polyester 'TGIC' Powder - this is what Powder Buy the Pound sells

seems like some are getting better results with the TGIC powders instead of the Epoxy powders?

[prickett]

Pricket - just put those PC'd 9s back in the oven for 40 min ~370-380 then WD. They will work fine. I H-T'd 9s, 3 coats, let the last coat cook @ 350 for 30 min, WD. All shot fine and no leading. I WD everything coated, which is everything now.

Thanks for the tip popper! Just wondering... have you tried baking your final coat of PC for 40 minutes, then WD it? Seems like you could kill 2 birds with one stone.

I can't wait to try your technique, because I LOVE the dry PC method. Its the fastest/simplest method yet!

[prickett]

just getting ready to get into this, i notice two different types of powders used:

Epoxy Resin Powder - this seems to be what Harbor Freight sells

Polyester 'TGIC' Powder - this is what Powder Buy the Pound sells

seems like some are getting better results with the TGIC powders instead of the Epoxy powders?

I'd disagree with that. I'm using HF Red as are a number of others expressing success. I've also seen where PBtP folks buy several colors and discover (much like HF paint) that only certain colors seem to work.

[fastfire]

Could you water drop them straight out of the oven to heat treat them?


Just a follow up to my last post - I shot the dry coated boolits today. The .45 ACP was VERY accurate. And, I only coated them once. So, of all the coating techniques described on this board, I declare this one to be simplest, cheapest, second best looking boolits (where Piglet rates a 5 of 10, Klass Kote a 6 of 10, dry coat 8 of 10, and Hi Tek 10 of 10). Originally I hit the boolits with a quick spray from an aerosol can of silicon to lube for sizing. I've found that isn't even necessary - they are slick enough to not require any lube. The barrel had NO leading. My search for the perfect coating is over - for the .45.

Now for the bad news - my 9mm's were not so good. The very first one key holed, it appeared. I proceeded to shoot 39 more, trying to see if the first was really a key hole. Of the 40 total, only 2 key holed. But accuracy wasn't great. When I got home, I found the barrel was lightly leaded. I think what is happening is that the wheel weights, which I always water drop, had lost their quenched hardness following the baking of the PC. So, the higher pressure of the 9mm rendered these borderline satisfactory. Next week I'm doing a battle royale test, pitting dry coat, piglet coat, HI-TEK, and traditional lead (all from the same batch of cast boolits) to compare accuracy. I'm wondering if I just need to let the baked dry coated boolits sit for a month to age harden.

[prickett]

Could you water drop them straight out of the oven to heat treat them?

I believe that's been found to be unsuccessful. Apparently the 20 minute cooking time isn't long enough (???). But, if baked for the 40 minutes Popper suggested, then water dropped... that is something I may experiment with if someone hasn't already done so.

[fastfire]

SO........the WD does harden the boolit after powder coating?
What's the hardness before and after WD?



Pricket - just put those PC'd 9s back in the oven for 40 min ~370-380 then WD. They will work fine. I H-T'd 9s, 3 coats, let the last coat cook @ 350 for 30 min, WD. All shot fine and no leading. I WD everything coated, which is everything now.

[prickett]

this thread needs more pictures..... :veryconfu8967989680

Boolits with dry powder applied (tumbled for 10 minutes), then after 25 minutes at 425F (according to the oven, but more realistically around 400F).

This used HF Red powder. Not quite sure why it comes out of the tumbler a very dark red, then out of the oven almost brown, but the brown looks much cooler.

Oh, and I've revised my process to only do a single coating. Found no need to do a second coat.

[HDS]

What if one doesn't get HF but buys from powder by the pound instead? To be specific i am interested in matte black 223 bullets. I might still go the electrostatic method.

[prickett]

What if one doesn't get HF but buys from powder by the pound instead? To be specific i am interested in matte black 223 bullets. I might still go the electrostatic method.

What are you asking? Whether PBtP can be used?

PBtP powders also can work. It depends on the powder. I've not used PBtP as it's quite a bit more expensive, so I can't answer as to which paints do and don't work. Maybe someone else can. I know someone earlier (or in another thread?) posted he bought a number of different paints and mentioned that some worked and some didn't.

[DRNurse1]

Great looking Boolits! This is the How to thread, but where is the What to use thread?

[popper]

prickett - ESPC with HF red, did the dry powder with HF white on 308 boolits. Red comes out looking like post 53. White looks almost as good. I've left them cooking as long as an hour @400F & below, then WD (even checked) works fine. I don't get the dark color you did. I'm doing the HF specified cook then drop the temp 25-50F for the rest of the time. When I recook (got interrupted on a batch and they AC before I got to them) I drop down to 375F. Seems like recooking above 425-450 gets them a little sticky. I'm doing HiTek for pistol now but may use the dry HF Red for my daughter - so the SIL won't shoot all her ammo.

[prickett]

Great looking Boolits! This is the How to thread, but where is the What to use thread?

Where ever you start it :-)

I do agree it'd me most useful, and should also be made a sticky.

[prickett]

I don't get the dark color you did.

The color may have to do with my tumbler. I did try HF black in it previously. Maybe the darkness is resulting from residual black. That is kind of hard to believe though, as I've done at least 20 tumbles since then, and the color isn't lightening. It may just have to remain a mystery - but with a fortuitous result - as I like the brown color better than red. My first attempt was a small batch done in tupperware, rather than my tumbler, and they came out red.



When I recook (got interrupted on a batch and they AC before I got to them)

I ran into that problem yesterday, where my cook ended and I didn't realize it until 5 or 10 minutes later. Any idea on how long you can wait between the oven turning off and water dropping, before the WD process is no effective?


I'm doing HiTek for pistol now but may use the dry HF Red for my daughter

I did your re-cook heat treatment on a set of HiTek as well, to see if accuracy improves/decreases. As the cook finished, I remembered that over cooking is supposed to make the coating brittle. I did a smash test and was pleased to see complete adhesion, so maybe not, with regards to brittleness. I'll be testing HF dry coat (w/heat treatment), HiTek (w/heat treatment), and Klass Kote (both with and without heat treatment) to see how accurate they are. Klass Kote is only cooked at 200F, so I'm testing it to see if the 200F reduced hardness or not.

I didn't realize accuracy was suffering until I shot last weekend and compared HF vs. traditional lead. HF was too soft, resulting in about a 5" spread, compared to a 2" spread with traditional lead. HF was too soft because the baking of the paint undid the WD hardening that the traditional lead still had.

[w0fms]

Do you guys think that placing a tupperware-type container on top of a vibratory tumbler (duct taped down or some other way.. ty-wrapped, etc.) would work for an experimentation? I find THIS interesting as I like to coat all sides. To do this with ESPC you need to do 2-3 coats.

I'm thinking this for the first coat, and then ESPCing on a flat plate for a second could result in perfection for my perfectionist tendencies. I also wonder if spraying/tumbiling the boolits in something "sticky" first could help. I am at a loss as what that would be those as it'd have to be something that baked off... Yet another thing to try...

[prickett]

Do you guys think that placing a tupperware-type container on top of a vibratory tumbler (duct taped down or some other way.. ty-wrapped, etc.) would work for an experimentation? I find THIS interesting as I like to coat all sides. To do this with ESPC you need to do 2-3 coats.

I'm thinking this for the first coat, and then ESPCing on a flat plate for a second could result in perfection for my perfectionist tendencies. I also wonder if spraying/tumbiling the boolits in something "sticky" first could help. I am at a loss as what that would be those as it'd have to be something that baked off... Yet another thing to try...

For experimentation purposes, just tumble by hand in the tupperware. I did on my first batch. Doesn't take long - maybe 4 minutes.

I don't think you need to worry about spraying with something sticky (though it has been done successfully in another thread). With the right "kind" of paint, you'll get plenty of adhesion. Finding the right kind of paint will require trial and error - though most find HF Red to work. I believe HF White (see Poppers post #82 above) and Yellow also have been used successfully.

[w0fms]

Ok thanks.. I need to cast and coat a few hundred 9mm 125gr.. and also water drop them.. so it'll be an "everything project".. probably Christmas to New Years... I wonder if charging them up with the ES machine first is advantageous.. will have to see...

[prickett]

I just completed a test. First I determined the hardness of my water dropped boolit. Then I cooked a boolit for 25 minutes at 400F (simulating HF dry coat). It had gotten softer. I then cooked for 60 minutes at 400F then water dropped. It got softer still!

NOT what I had hoped for.

I did a second test to simulate Klass Kote. I first determined the hardness of my water dropped boolit. Then I cooked the boolit for 30 minutes at 150F (simulating the heating up to speed up the setting of the Klass Kote). It retained its original hardness.

That is good news

Finally, I determined the hardness of my water dropped boolit. Then I cooked the boolit for 10 minutes at 400F (simulating cooking HiTek). It had gotten softer. I then cooked for 60 minutes at 400F then water dropped. It too got softer.

Popper says cooking for an hour, then water dropping works, but I'm not seeing it in my experiments. Did I miss a step that you can see Popper? I want for the ability to re-harden my boolits!

[popper]

No arsenic in your melt? - add shot. I use Cu in mine (no Sn), they harden in a day (HT), without it, may take a few days to get to hardness when HT'd. Yours should harden, just takes a month or so. I'm assuming that you WD when casting and they set for a while before coating? I heated some to 200F for a short period & AC. Made them totally soft, just as Felix said. Same results as you with HiTek for me, I drop the temp to 350 for the HT. Worked in the 9 fine. I don't have a BHN tester, just a scale to measure #s need to indent. I don't see any BHN increase due to any coating material. I recovered some PCd 40s, >90% wt. retention, couldn't find any HiTek coated 9s. Maybe SIL was aiming at a different place. Anyway, he shot all the ammo I gave him (~200 rnds) and no problems, no leading, accurate.

[prickett]

I used COWW's. I was reading up on Cu for a while, but abandoned it when it appeared I needed a PHD in chemistry to understand how to do it, and then I discovered these new coatings - thinking hardening wouldn't be an issue any more. I found that hardness matters for two things, only one of which the coatings address. Coatings prevent leading, but too soft lead still results in poor accuracy.

My test above allowed no time to harden. Hardness tests were taken immediately after I pulled the quenched boolits from the water. Additionally, as I've been testing these coatings, I run small tests, usually within a week of coating them. It sounds like my problem is shooting them too soon after coating them. Giving them a few weeks to harden might be the solution.

[Freightman]

they get harder with time to a certain point.

[DRNurse1]

Where ever you start it :-)

I do agree it'd me most useful, and should also be made a sticky.

Maybe a sub forum for now then a sticky when the process matures. As far as starting a What to use thread, well that would be like a politician trying to tell you how to provide your health care....(that was too damn serious to be as funny as I intended!).

[crawfobj]

Great work guys. I've been on the fence on this, but now it looks like it's time to get some powder and an oven. This looks like just the ticket for running cast through a suppressor.

[Freightman]

I just reuse my powder and have got some interesting colors silver, fushia, pink, purple, wine color ect. darn this is fun :drinks:

[Mike Hughes]

Freightman, weren't you the first to do the dry tumble method which is becoming more popular. I have been using your technique and getting good results. I ordered these 3 colors from allpowderpaints.com. The coating is really slick and looks almost as good as using the gun, but much easier, no mess, and use way less powder. these are all 1 coat
93475

[doctorggg]

Very nice looking boolits.

[doctorggg]

Mike,

I just went to allpowderpaints.com. There are multiple categories to order from. Which category are you ordering from?
Thanks doctorggg

[Freightman]

Freightman, weren't you the first to do the dry tumble method which is becoming more popular. I have been using your technique and getting good results. I ordered these 3 colors from allpowderpaints.com. The coating is really slick and looks almost as good as using the gun, but much easier, no mess, and use way less powder. these are all 1 coat
93475
I don't know Mike I started it because I hate the smell of acetone and solvent and I am lazy also.:-D I never put more than one coat on I don't see the need

[Mike Hughes]

on the main page, click color selector, then select solid colors. My colors are Arctic Cat green, mirror blue and RAL 4006 (pink)

[doctorggg]

Thank you very much Mike. I love your colors.

[flyingrhino]

I've tried the dry tumble method with HF Red and don't care for the results. I didn't get good coverage, even after 2 coats and I had blemishes from the wire mesh and heavy spots from excess powder. If i shook the tray too much to remove the excess I got more blemishes. The first coat looked better but had too many voids. Adding the second coat just made things worse. I get much better results with the acetone method.

I still think this method is VERY promising. The wet method works well but if I can get away from the nasty solvent fumes I'd like to. I ordered some powder from allpowderpaints.com and will try those with the dry tumble method. I think it's just getting a powder and process that go together well.

Back when I shot high power competition I used a vibratory tumbler with bb's and moly powder to coat my jacketed bullets. Has anyone tried this method with the powder paint?

[prickett]

The wet method works well but if I can get away from the nasty solvent fumes I'd like to.

Back when I shot high power competition I used a vibratory tumbler with bb's and moly powder to coat my jacketed bullets. Has anyone tried this method with the powder paint?

Have you tried lacquer thinner instead of acetone for the wet method? Not nearly the obnoxious fumes and, works as well, if not better.

I doubt anyone has tried the bb method as most have had great results without. What did you tumble your boolits in, and how much powder did you use, that resulted in the unsatisfactory results? Compared to the photo's of other people's results are yours similar or worse?

[Ajax]

Why is this not a sticky great info here.

Andy

[sparky45]

8967989680

Boolits with dry powder applied (tumbled for 10 minutes), then after 25 minutes at 425F (according to the oven, but more realistically around 400F).

This used HF Red powder. Not quite sure why it comes out of the tumbler a very dark red, then out of the oven almost brown, but the brown looks much cooler.

Oh, and I've revised my process to only do a single coating. Found no need to do a second coat.
They turned brown because of to much time in the oven. My HF Red comes out RED.
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb351/glynnm1945/Redbullets_zps186970b4.jpg (http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/glynnm1945/media/Redbullets_zps186970b4.jpg.html)
Granted I used the ESPC method but that shouldn't effect color. My time in the oven was 20 min. @ 350 degrees.

[Maximumbob54]

I've tried the dry tumble method with HF Red and don't care for the results. I didn't get good coverage, even after 2 coats and I had blemishes from the wire mesh and heavy spots from excess powder. If i shook the tray too much to remove the excess I got more blemishes. The first coat looked better but had too many voids. Adding the second coat just made things worse. I get much better results with the acetone method.

I still think this method is VERY promising. The wet method works well but if I can get away from the nasty solvent fumes I'd like to. I ordered some powder from allpowderpaints.com and will try those with the dry tumble method. I think it's just getting a powder and process that go together well.

Back when I shot high power competition I used a vibratory tumbler with bb's and moly powder to coat my jacketed bullets. Has anyone tried this method with the powder paint?

Don't give up. I scoffed at this at first. I will admit they still don't look as good as with the ES gun but for bulk plinkers they work fine.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20140110_223141462_zpsdxshmgtf.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20140110_223141462_zpsdxshmgtf.jpg.html)

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20140111_115709458_zpsszcglwcl.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20140111_115709458_zpsszcglwcl.jpg.html)

They don't look near as good as the ES gun method but they still work.

[gefiltephish]

I tried the ES method and while it works ok, I found it quite tedious and well, a PIA balancing bullets on top of nuts and all. Base down they don't all get covered well where needed, with some requiring a 2nd coat. Nose down of course only works with a large meplat.

Just as a quickie test, last night I swirled a half dozen bullets in a small container with a splash of HF red and after just a minute or two, they were well coated. Dumped 'em on the same tray I used for ES, except I didn't use a new sheet of ns foil, put in the oven for 10min @ 400 and they came out very well. In spite of the fact that they stuck to the preexisting paint on the tray (I pulled 'em off while still very hot), the coverage was surprisingly good. Will definitely be working on better trays, screens etc, whatever works out the best. I'm a much happier camper.

BTW. I got a Hamilton Beach convection oven (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hamilton-Beach-Large-Capacity-Counter-Top-Oven-Black/16503576) from Walmart for $60. It's quite large and can take up to 4 trays. The thermostat is fairly accurate. Now if only I can figure out what the rotisserie might be useful for...

[prickett]

Why is this not a sticky great info here.

Andy

Your handle says "Moderator Emeritus" - make it so!

[prickett]

I tried the ES method and while it works ok, I found it quite tedious and well, a PIA balancing bullets on top of nuts and all. Base down they don't all get covered well where needed, with some requiring a 2nd coat. Nose down of course only works with a large meplat.

Just as a quickie test, last night I swirled a half dozen bullets in a small container with a splash of HF red and after just a minute or two, they were well coated. Dumped 'em on the same tray I used for ES, except I didn't use a new sheet of ns foil, put in the oven for 10min @ 400 and they came out very well. In spite of the fact that they stuck to the preexisting paint on the tray (I pulled 'em off while still very hot), the coverage was surprisingly good. Will definitely be working on better trays, screens etc, whatever works out the best. I'm a much happier camper.

BTW. I got a Hamilton Beach convection oven (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hamilton-Beach-Large-Capacity-Counter-Top-Oven-Black/16503576) from Walmart for $60. It's quite large and can take up to 4 trays. The thermostat is fairly accurate. Now if only I can figure out what the rotisserie might be useful for...

Not sure what kind of tray you are using. I just dump my tumbled boolits onto a piece of hardware mesh with the sides turned up by an inch or so. No foil needed/desired. As soon as your cook ends, pull out the tray and swish it around a bit to break free any stuck boolits. While still hot, they release VERY easily. The tray leaves very few minor blemishes.

[a.squibload]

Here it is! I lost track of the thread that got me to try dry tumble.

With HF red I tumble 10 min in a peanut can wedged in a rotary tumbler
with a rag to keep the can centered. That might be longer than needed.
Leftover powder in the can is not a problem, leave it for next batch.
Remove boolits with hemostats, needlenose or tweezers should work,
grab boolits by nose.
Tap tool on can to remove excess powder, boolit retains even coating.
No clumping, normally low humiditty here, maybe that's it.
Place base down on nonstick foil, 400F / 10min. Base gets coated too,
they release easily from foil.
PC adds .002 to boolit dia., size after coating, nice & smooth.

Thanks, I'm sold on this method! Gonna hit HF for more powder...

[3006mv]

Wow you must be doin a lot of boolits my one can will last me more than a few years I am guessing, or at least my lead supply.
Try dumping through a mesh screen on newspaper and reusing the powder by dumping back in your can. Less tedious than picking out each individually.

[a.squibload]

Might try that but picking them one at a time I know the driving bands will be smooth.
Not out of powder yet just wanna make sure to have plenty on hand, & try different colors. I shoot once or thrice a month if I'm lucky.
Might try shakin' 'em in the peanut can without the tumbler.

Wanted to learn paper patch for the 303, not sure it's necessary now.

[lukewmtdew]

What kind of mesh do I use? Can I get it at the hardware store? Can I bake on the mesh?

[lukewmtdew]

Can I use multiple layers in a tiny convection oven?

[Mike Hughes]

Can I use multiple layers in a tiny convection oven?
I use aluminum window screen material available at home depot or other hardware stores. I have baked 2 layers with no problems

[prickett]

What kind of mesh do I use? Can I get it at the hardware store? Can I bake on the mesh?

I use 1/4" hardware mesh.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1290447&cp=2568443.2568451.2624969.1302712

Can certainly bake on the mesh. I made about 6 "baskets" using this. After tumbling, I dump the coated boolits into the basket, shake any loose powder off, then bake (in the same basket). Immediately after baking, shake the basket to break any boolits free that would otherwise stick to the basket.