Deer Hunting in Indiana

[bruce drake]

As a new resident of the state of Indiana, I am dealing with their unique deer-hunting restrictions regarding centerfire rifles. The DNR only allows pistol cartridges of less than 1.8 inches in length and with a minimum of 35 caliber bullets.

Short of having to re-barrel one of my other rifles or buying another rifle completely setup with one of the restricted list of calibers, I decided that I would use my 358 Winchester-barreled Mauser that I built two years ago for a hunt in Kansas that never manifested.

The brass cartridge itself is longer than the 1.8" length restriction so I cut the neck off a test cartridge at the max-length and then seated a 358311 (200gr RN) boolit into the very short neck (.145") of the new ".358 Winchester Special". The dummy cartridge feeds and ejects fine from the rifle and I hope the bullet doesn't rebel from the large jump into the rifling although I may reset the seating die to extend the cartridge OAL closer to the rifling once I build more of these short cases.

I will try to get a test trip to the range in the next few weeks to try this out and see if it will be a viable option for next year's deer hunting.

I could rebarrel the Mauser to 35 Remington but I would still need to trim the brass .10" to meet the DNR's restriction of 1.8".

If the 358 Win Spl doesn't work out, I could still use a slug from one of my shotguns or a 357 Magnum pistol to go hunting but I'd prefer to use a good cartridge to ethically hunt past 50 yards.

We live in interesting times.

Bruce

[badge176]

http://357maximum.com/the-concept/

.357 Max in a rechambered .357 mag H&R Handi Rifle!

[runfiverun]

hmm that's an interestin way to get around the rule, I dunno how the game warden or the F&G would view it though.
they might call out the chamber spec's instead of the cartridge itself.

interesting side note.
I have seen people cut off almost the entire neck from a case and use a boolit to fill in the gap with pretty dang good accuracy before.

[Djones]

I'm doing the same this with 45-70 and 35 remington. I dont change the OAL though.

You can check out my progress here:
http://ingunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading/247012-45-70-deer-legal-round-development.html

http://ingunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading/310396-45-70-deer-legal-year-ii.html

I killed a deer last year with a 45-70 1.8" cast with a Lee 457-450F. I purchased the boolits. This year I am casting my own! Very Excited! The 35 rem I'm shooting J's though for now. Still waiting on the group buy Mihec 220 grain hp hunting bullet.

Good luck with you 358 win!

[bruce drake]

It's been approved by the DNR in my phone call to their Chief Warden's office yesterday that their requirement is that the cartridge is 1.8" in length. If I only have those cartridges in my possession when a Warden checks my papers, that would be the determinant.

I'm not opposed to a 357 Max but I would prefer to have a Mauser based rifle as my hunting arm and that rimmed case would make the tweaking a bit difficult..

Djones, where do you live? I'm in Brownsburg. NW of Indy. I've cut a bit more off the neck than your 35 Rem Cartridge so even pushing the boolit out a bit will still make it shorter than the standard 358 Winchester cartridges overall length.

[lancem]

See you called, and it's ok, that was going to be my suggestion to be sure you are able to hunt this way.

[Djones]

I'm in Greenfield. I hunt in Hamilton and Putnam counties.

I have a buddy who just got a 358 Hoosier barrel for his Rem 700. I am going to be doing the reloading for him. That should be interesting.

[Beerd]

It's been approved by the DNR in my phone call to their Chief Warden's office yesterday that their requirement is that the cartridge is 1.8" in length. If I only have those cartridges in my possession when a Warden checks my papers, that would be the determinant.


Might want to get that in writing, signed.
Just sayin'.
..

[bruce drake]

I figure using load data for 35 Remington should be a good starting point for most applications. Its still a 200gr boolit flying at 1900fps.

Bruce

[backroad]

Might want to get that in writing, signed.
Just sayin'. A wise man i would listen.

[bruce drake]

http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/pageFlip/
1.8" max length
Page 24 in the regs.

Bruce

[Djones]

http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/pageFlip/
1.8" max length
Page 24 in the regs.

Bruce

I agree it is clearly written in our regs. I would trim your case to 1.790" just to make sure that your case easily passes through the go-no go gauge used by the DNR officers.

[backroad]

I guess i take that to mean saami case dimensions.Don,t know which is right but i would be nervous

[06ackley]

.I am doing the same thing with my 358 win and it works fine.It is legal ,yes I have been checked.There are a lot of guys cutting cartrdges down.I know of several that are using cut down 45-70 in lever guns and single shots.I am using the rcbs 200gr boolit in my 358 cast of 50/50.

[starmac]

Sometimes you just have to wonder who wrote the regs. lol

I have not read the regs on buffalo here, but I understand that you have to use a rifle and cartridge that exceeds a certain amount of ft pounds of energy.lol

[06ackley]

I don't think the person who wrote the regs thought about what a handloader could do with the specs they allow.A lot of cut down and custom calibers have come about from the use of rifles.I don't understand them but I will follow them.

[bruce drake]

Exactly! I'm sorely tempted to build a 35 Remington or 358x39mm Small Ring Mauser as well.

Bruce

[richhodg66]

Between Fort Riley and Fort Sill and the National Grasslands in NE Texas where my folks live that have good deer hunting, but restrictions on weapon type due to safety, I have figured out the easiest, cheapest and best way to crack that nut. Two words; Inline muzzleloader.

There's a Traditions Buckhunter like the one I use in the WTS forum and they seem to be legal in just about any season other than archery even if it's a shotgun only area.

[bruce drake]

very limited muzzleloader season and I have everything I else I need to make this cartridge.

[Djones]

Got any pics of your loaded cartridge?

Here is my 457-643 in a 1.79" case.
http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/3ECB0C5A-50BC-4B6E-8422-5F58C70EFC50-1375-0000002255487DBD.jpg

[bruce drake]

I'll get a picture made this weekend. I've got a few projects at work I need to complete before I can have some more fun time in the garage.

Bruce

[badgeredd]

Exactly! I'm sorely tempted to build a 35 Remington or 358x39mm Small Ring Mauser as well.

Bruce

Bruce,

I assisted a friend who built a 35 Remington (shortened) on a Savage action for Indiana. With the loads we worked up he is getting 2450 FPS (because it is on a modern bolt action) which gives a flight path of +/- 2" out to 205 yards for 200 grain Speer. Darn good rifle for the regs. Also efficient killer last year with one 'yote and one buck to his credit. He calls it his Indiana Special.

Edd

[Djones]

Here is what my 35 remington looks like shortened. I shoot it out of a Marlin 336 so I keep the velocity down to 2200. This is a Hornady 200 grain FTX bullet loaded with leverevolution powder. I can't wait to make this bad boy a boolit rifle.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/0275F6F2-1A6C-4C55-9307-900689CF8070-3055-000000533661B758.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/0275F6F2-1A6C-4C55-9307-900689CF8070-3055-000000533661B758.jpg.html)

[OnHoPr]

85286

They do make a number of wildcats for that state. The 358/25 WSSM here with a case length of 1.670" well beneath the 1.8". Though they might make a case of the similar to help aid in a longer neck length for a cast boolit. That case should hold a decent amount of powder for a cast. In the shotgun forum in Ed hubel's thread he has designed a 585 HI ???? on this forum recently. It could smack a deer pretty good.

[kevmc]

very limited muzzleloader season and I have everything I else I need to make this cartridge.

???
Muzzleloader is legal during
Firearms Nov 16- Dec 1
Muzzleloader Dec 7 -Dec 22
And Antlerless Dec 26 - Jan 5

[bruce drake]

Kevmc,
I meant for my work schedule. Not meaning to dissuade others from shooting the smoke poles.

Bruce

[Boyscout]

I have a Traditions Lightening-fire. Percussion-sidelock with 1-32 twist. So far it has not been much of a hindrance to taking deer so I have not seen much reason to go the Indiana wild-cat route as it is a pure joy to shoot. However, what affect does shortening the neck on a 35 Remington have on the chamber and throat of the rifle? I have a Remington 740 Gamemaster Pump I would love to use but I do not want to damage it shooting a modified case. I have the RCBS 358-200 FN bullet mold for this rifle. Can I assume that you are keeping the same COL as before and just shortening the case neck to meet requirements?

Had dinner with the in-laws in Brownsburg the other night. Pro-fire (Reloading Store) moved their store to Rockville and Girls school Road just recently. Very nice set up. Had a lot of Winchester primers, 44 and 35 cal gas checks. no powder except Trail Boss though.

[richhodg66]

Kansas used to have a lot of restrictions on what could be used and they have gradually been making deer hunting less and less restrictive over the years (I have lived here a long time now). About the only things they haven't budged on is the only one buck per year thing and the fact that they will not move their regular firearms season to correspond with the rut and I'm OK with both of those. It pays to be a bow hunter in Kansas.

Because I hunt only public land of one type or another and in several different states, there usually seems to be some additional regulations over what the state has, oftentimes the "shotgun only" thing for safety. In my experience, it is much, much easier and cheaper to get good performance out of a muzzle loader than a shotgun, and every place I've been has been OK with using one in a shotgun area or season. Plus, you can use it in most muzzle loader seasons and regular rifle seasons too. With even a cheapie inline like mine, it's easily a 100 yard or better killer and is just about as reliable and weather proof as anything.

I know Iowa, Illinois, I think Ohio and a few other midwest states have the shotgun only restriction and some states like Michigan have it in large parts of the state. WHile Kansas doesn't, and I have no knowledge of a plan to do so, I could see them making the eastern third of the state a shotgun only area since it is becoming more densly populated so I've given this some thought. I like hunting with muzzle loaders, and if you had to pick one gun that was legal and practical for all areas and seasons, an inline would be it.

[MT Gianni]

I wonder if MCA chamber inserts could make an adaptor for 358 to handle 357 Max. It should shoot 357 or 38's. I will have to measure rim sizes at home.

[NVScouter]

Just stamp SP behind your caliber to have a legit "special"

[Djones]

44 mag should work for Indiana too

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/A8148C0F-135A-4970-8818-180834CE2452-3943-000001F09C3C48E9_zpsbe3572f4.jpg

[Rick45Colt]

The muzzleloader only season is short but you can use the muzzleloader in firearms season. BTW I live in Johnson County, Indiana and I hunt in Johnson, Putnam and Switzerland counties. I have been trying to get out during archery season but so far have not made it.

[youngda9]

I use a 44mag with a RD-265gr mold in my Marlin 1894. Shoots great and blasts a big hole in deer.

[warboar_21]

When I lived in Browsnburg I hunted a friends farm in Avon(which now is gone) and also down by Nashville. It was either shotgun, handgun, or muzzleloader. I wished they allowed the use of pistol caliber rifles when I was there.
When the law changed I was talking to my uncle and he was asking for advice on a rifle to pick. Since he had an AR he decided to do a .458Socom. Now he has a bolt gun chambered for it as well.

[FergusonTO35]

I wonder if there is a source for shorty .45-70 cases? Although it's not required here I would like to try shooting a .45 Colt size cartridge out of my Marlin.

[Djones]

I wonder if there is a source for shorty .45-70 cases? Although it's not required here I would like to try shooting a .45 Colt size cartridge out of my Marlin.

The hornady lever evolution for 45-70 is .060-080" shorter than the standard 2.1". Some time on a trimmer you can get down to 1.79". I have 50 or so cases for 45-70 I have shortened.

[Grendel99]

Since I've only ever hunted in my home state of SC, this seems very weird. What on earth is the point of this regulation?

[Beerd]

Since I've only ever hunted in my home state of SC, this seems very weird. What on earth is the point of this regulation?

Some people just like to tell other people what to do.
..

[Djones]

If it weren't for our goofy laws I would have never got into reloading which then lead to casting. Therefore I am grateful!

[Boyscout]

Indiana allows has a .357 cal minimum for handgun cartridges and allows the use of handgun cartridges in rifles. I believe it is an attempt to restrict sub-standard rounds from handguns (38 Spl, 45 ACP, etc). With the advent of in-line muzzleloaders and rifled slug barrels, I think a lot of lines were blurred. Savage makes a muzzle loader capable of using Accurate 5744 smokeless powder. Is that within the spirit of the law? While it seems a little odd, it is more liberal than the old shotgun/muzzleloader only rules set up for safety. The way I hunt (from a tree), most of my bullets go through the deer and into the ground within a few feet of where they are standing.

[Grendel99]

Can you not use centerfire bottle necked cartridges, like 270 Win or 300 Win Mag? Or is it just for certain seasons?

That 358/25 WSSM looks pretty cool. What kind of velocity does that get?

[Boyscout]

.357 is the smallest caliber allowed by law. We were considered too conjested to use high power rifles during the crowded deer seasons. 357 Magnum was probably considered the smallest hand-gun caliber suitable for consistant and humane kills. The addition of the new specifications allowing cartridges 1.80" or shorter and .357 cal was either an unforseen loophole or a reasonable compromise for use in handgun caliber rifles.