Got my lumbar CT Myelogram results today

[MaryB]

Doc walked in and said "your lower back is really messed up". Showed me the scans, on disc is very bulged and compressing the spinal cord. 3 more are more or less gone. Had a lumbar decompression in 2009 and that is full of bone spurs and scar tissue that is pushing the vertebrae out of alignment. He wants to do a 4 level fusion, L1 to S1. I told him maybe in the spring unless I have an emergency like losing function in a leg more than temporarily. No way I can recover from back surgery and run the snow blower/shovel when needed.

[smokeywolf]

I feel your pain. Literally. Ruptured L4/L5 disc pinching the sciatic nerve bundle that goes down my left leg.

Neurosurgeon said as long as pain is tolerable and I'm not having to take 800mg. Ibuprofens every single day just to function, better off avoiding the back surgery. He said back surgery will oft times cure one problem and wake up 2 more.

smokeywolf

[uscra112]

I feel your pain. Literally. Ruptured L4/L5 disc pinching the sciatic nerve bundle that goes down my left leg.

Neurosurgeon said as long as pain is tolerable and I'm not having to take 800mg. Ibuprofens every single day just to function, better off avoiding the back surgery. He said back surgery will oft times cure one problem and wake up 2 more.

smokeywolf

One of my colleagues at work, (a field service tech), had that happen to him - new surgeries every 18 months or so after the first one, and he wound up on total disability at 40 years old. Could not even do a desk job.

Ibuprofin trashes your stomach. I have enough hip pain that my doctor wrote me up for Tramadol. Why won't yours ?

[C.F.Plinker]

I had the L4-L5 rupture last spring. Hydrocodone only moderated the pain when I took it by itself. But when it was combined with estrogen it eliminated the pain entirely and I only needed 2 Hydrocodone a day as compared with 12 a day without the estrogen. After 2 nine day courses of treatment about 10 days apart the pain has been virtually eliminated.

On my third visit to the PA I asked what the difference in having the surgery or not having it would be 2 years later. She said there was no difference -- the surgery they were talking about for me was just to relieve the immediate pain. I said that if it comes back we will try the direct estrogen injections before we talk about surgery any more. I lucked out in that I haven't needed any more pills or any injections for the last 7 months.

Some of my strength and energy are finally starting to come back. I can use both legs going up stairs but still have to use just one to go down stairs and my walking speed is slower than it used to be but it is getting better week by week (not day by day).

[pdawg_shooter]

I had 3 disk high up in my neck collapse about 10 years ago and they were starting to damage the spinal cord. Doc went in and removed the back half of 4 vertebrae. Still some pain in my neck and numbness in my hands from the nerve damage, but WAY better than before the surgery.

[AlaskanGuy]

I had the same thing my friend.... First surgery was in my 20's..... Now in my 50's.... About 7 years ago, i had the spinal fusion and the installation of a Harrington rod. Over several levels in my lower back.... This is what i found after having the surgery,

The pro's.... I can walk, without a cane, or anything... Pain is manageable with the help of a antiinflamable called relefan... Relefan does not eat my tummy like others did... I still have pain, it is an old friend... But i just ignore it... I am able to hunt and fish and carry a backpack to pack out clients fish and can pretty much walk all day up and down the unstable river beds and such.... But after a whole day of hiking, i am pretty sore, and just lay down...

The bad.... Before the surgery, i was losing function of my right leg.... I waited so long before the surgery, that i had permanent nerve damage in my right leg.... Now i have permanant weakness in my right leg... Problem was, the longer i went with the compressed nerves, the more of the nerve dies off....

My advice.... Get the dang surgery during the winter... That way come spring, you will be all better with as good as your gunna get... The recovery for me was short... And in about 7 months, i was back to splitting wood and hiking all over the place. In hindsight, i wish I would have not waited so long.... Ask your doctor for an electrical function test.. That will show nerve degeneration.. It is a simple test that uses something that looks like acupuncture needles with wires attached to them... They apply electricity and measure the amount of time it takes for the power to get between the needles...it does feel a bit weird, like after your foot goes to sleep...

In summary i would say, don't put off today what you can do tomorrow... It never works out... If you are gunna need the surgery, do it NOW. Dont be the man, like me, that just wanted to tuff it out... You loose in the end.

Alaskan

[pdawg_shooter]

+1 on getter done! I waited too long on my neck surgery, so now I have a lack of feeling in the outside edge and middle and ring fingers of both hands. He who hesitates is lost.

[AlaskanGuy]

P.S......
The more active you are after the surgery the faster the recovery. I was able to do stuff within a couple weeks as long as i was careful.... But shoveling was OUT... Keep everything close in to your body is the rule... A shovel is the worst thing as it causes your trunk to twist and with a shovel full of anything can really hamper recovery...

[opos]

Beware of Tramadol if you have any signs of Diabetes...it's a deadly combination....have a close friend that was put on Tramadol and also is a type 2 diabetic...his doc blew it big time...he's been laid up for almost 2 weeks...of course off the Tramadol but it really had an impact.

My Wife had a single level cage fusion about 1 month ago...doing well ....she's obeying all the rules...making daily progress..she's had a 4 level laminectomy about 12 years ago and all went well and is still just fine...she also had a multilevel neck fusion and plate (went in through the front of her neck).....all is fine there as well...Ortho did a little "touch up" when he just did the cage fusion and said he thinks she may have reached the point when her "junk spine" is going to be ok and not give further problems...main advce was lose some weight (she's lost 30 pounds which is great) and to walk more which she's been doing since she began her rehab....Back surgery has come a huge distance in the past 10 years or so...big deal to be sure but much better and less invasive...she was on her feet the night of her surgery...walking the next day and home the 3rd morning....

[smokeywolf]

C.F.Plinker,
I had the L4-L5 rupture last spring. Hydrocodone only moderated the pain when I took it by itself.

Yep, I was on the 10/325 Percocets for a while and although they were the only thing that would at least partially moderate the pain, because they also impair your ability to think for yourself and are so addictive, being the control freak that I am, I took myself off them. The pain was more mind altering than the Percocets were. However, from past experience I knew that eventually I would get used to the pain and it would to a certain degree, blend into my everyday life. Meanwhile, I discovered that I got more pain relief from massage than from the pain pills; it just didn't last as long. For about 3 months my wife and daughter took turns massaging my back and leg.
I now get by on a few otc Ibuprofens a week and frequently go a week or ten days at a time without any. Wife learned acupressure and can actually shut down the specific nerves that transmit the pain signals from my leg. Just 10 minutes of pain relief can make a huge difference in your overall mood for the entire day.
Ibuprofen dissolves you stomach lining and stresses your kidney, the opiates screw with your head, anesthetize your colon and are hard on your liver.

smokeywolf

[rondog]

Oh yeah, spine surgery is great fun. But much better than the alternative of just "living with it" though. My lumbar compression, stenosis and sciatica was terrible. I had both a laminotomy and laminectomy, two separate surgeries, to decompress. I recovered just fine, except my serratus posterior inferior muscles just won't go back to normal, they want to stay in spasm all the time. And I have some loss of feeling in my right leg from nerve damage too, minor, but I can tell.

I'm not trying to scare anybody, just posting info about the procedure. I just happened to have collected a bunch of images when I was going through it for my own curiosity. If you need it done and can get it done, then DO IT! You'll be glad you did! Beats the Hell out of suffering.

For those who don't know, this is a laminectomy. The back spur of a vertebrae, or laminae, is removed. They did L3, L4 and L5 on me.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/health%20stuff/lumbar_laminectomy_intro0102.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/health%20stuff/lumbar_stenosis_surgery0102.jpg

Cut on the red lines.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/health%20stuff/500px-Lumbar_vertebrae02.jpg

Stenosis is impingement on nerves, either by discs or vertebrae bone.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/health%20stuff/L5-S1herniation.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/health%20stuff/lumbarstenosis01.jpg

Lots of nerves down there.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/health%20stuff/lumbardrawingrear.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/health%20stuff/lumbarstenosis02.jpg

This can kinda help identify where the problem may lie, by where your pains are concentrated.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/health%20stuff/sciatica.jpg

There's a lot of muscles that have to be dealt with to get to where the work needs to be done. This is where most of the recovery discomfort is - sore muscles.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/health%20stuff/backmuscles01.jpg

Aaaand - the gross photo. This is what it actually looks like where the work gets done. This is why the surgeons make the big bucks. Reality is nothing like the pretty colored drawings up above. The big L3 and L4 labels are vertebrae, the small numbers are different nerve components. I found all this stuff searching around on Google, there's lots out there.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/health%20stuff/cadaverphoto.jpg

[shooter93]

I've had a very similar problem I've ben living with for many years. I've had a neck fusion which worked great but the trouble with the lumbar fusion for me is I've been told it's extensive enought that I could lose up to 6 months work in the healing....I'm a builder. I'd like to get it done but that's hasn't been in the cards because of the kind of jobs I've been getting. Get it done if you can....and good luck. It's no fun living like that I know for sure.

[C.F.Plinker]

Rondog

Thanks for posting those pictures and diagrams. They really help me understand what the MRI was trying to tell me.

[rondog]

I can tell you this - once you've had a lumbar surgery, you can forget about lifting heavy things ever again. You may still be able to do it somewhat, but if you push yourself too far just once, bad juju. Us humans, we wear out. Just gotta accept that. But we're lasting a helluva lot longer than we did 100 or 200 years ago! Our ancestors had it hard, far harder than we can even imagine.

[rondog]

Rondog

Thanks for posting those pictures and diagrams. They really help me understand what the MRI was trying to tell me.

Here's a link to lots more about herniated discs, that's what you have right? https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=webhp&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=-HBoUob2K_HUyQHyvoCgAQ&q=herniated+disc&oq=herniated&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.1474.4687.0.6672.10.6.0.4.4.0.399.1380. 0j4j0j2.6.0....0...1c.1.29.mobile-gws-hp..2.8.831.N-MIVoUMTRE

[gandydancer]

Its been a living hell for me the last five years with my spine. so weak at times unable to tear a piece of paper in half. or roll over in bed with out help.keep your self clean. or just to walk.neck surgery's. 2 to many. body functions not working right. last surgery one year ago. can now walk some with a cane. body functions working much better.lots of pain managed with LORTAP. one in morning one at night 7.5 mg. therapy not worth a dam. the arthritis has taken over at this point. bad cramps in hands and legs.feels like I have a 10 pound wedge between my shoulder blades. and you know what??after four years of this **** and feeling sorry for poor me. I loaded up 405 grs lead with the holy black 1st ammo load and shoot in 4 years. my buddy took me to his range and I was clanging the gongs at 1 2 & 300 yards BENCH REST. I will be sore as hell in a few hrs and I don't give a rats ****. I'M BACK. I have 3 light weight 45/70's a TC carbine.. a CVA scout. and a bergara barreled encore. and I just got a new haven marlin carbine 45/70 a older one with the Ballard rifling and a marlin 38/55 model 93 button magazine. I'm broke. sore. and I don't give a damn. life is good. Tom /gandydancer.

[smokeywolf]

gandydancer, that's a tough story with a wonderful outcome.

smokeywolf

[MaryB]

Did a three level laminectomy in 2009,I have been told my spine may eventually fuse itself together from the bone spurs. Lots of lost function in the left leg and just starting on the right. If it can go wrong with a spine I have it. I have to wait for spring. I live alone and will need to shovel and fight the snow blower. Doc agreed that it is better to wait than to mess up a fresh surgery.

[fouronesix]

Yep, better to get it done than wait- most of the time anyway. I know folks who refused to have the laminectomy done early enough and are now permanently crippled. Or heaven forbid had a doc botch the job:( Those nerves and attendant muscles can only be non-funcional for a certain period of time before they are lost for good.

I had it done in 1988 to L4. The neurosurgeon did a fine job. Lost no time in getting back into shape and that was important. Then in 1996 or so had L5 start acting up. Had some work done on it but didn't need a full laminectomy.

Some docs know how to proceed and advise and some simply don't! I did discover that UPPER BODY STRENGTH (along with the core strength) are keys to recovery and staying well after lumbar disc problems. Walking and other types of non-impact exercise like cycling or swimming are OK and often recommended by the docs and therapists. But upper body strength and hard exercise to keep that strength is what worked for me and I continue to have to remind myself of that and keep at it. Right now I can lift nearly as much as I could 40 years ago. And no, I suffer no ill effects for hard lifting or hard upper body work. Just the opposite.

[w5pv]

Dr. William Francis,Spinal Institute,600 Fannin.Houston TX.Fixes a lot of thing that other DR.s screw up.Fixed me up in 1996,repaired L1-L3,had patients from South Africa and several states the night he done my surgey.None of the side effects after surgey that are being described here.I can lift more than a lot of 71+ who haven't had surgery.No back pain or problems since.

[MrWolf]

I have herniations in cervical, thorasic, and lumbar. Surgery is not an option for thorasic so not taking the risk of surgery for others if I will still be in pain. I found my best relief from accupunture - it really helps me. My wife swears I am like my old self for about a week after. If you get it, make sure they know what they are doing. I had a chiropractor that did it and was worthless. Not saying anything, but the two best practioners were both oriental that practiced the old style. Best of luck with your back.

[unclogum bill]

Some thoughts from someone who has no Idea what hes talking about. So ignore me if its all no good to you.
One Montana winter I ripped my knee. Found instead of removing snow I could run over it. Another words my snow removal was more in my head than a necessary.
Insurance is going to change, You don't want to get stuck with high deductible
Friends sister had no insurance and elected to have back surgery in India , claimed she saved 75% over state side. That was 5 years back and shes back to living on her sailboat. must have worked. Was a package deal , air fare, recovery, drive her back to airport, whole deal.

[Beau Cassidy]

A 4 level fusion at one time? Whew! I hope it goes well. That is a lot of work at one time. One thing I always tell people who want back surgery... nobody and I mean nobody ever has it just once. Let that soak in a little while.

[MaryB]

Limited by medicare to staying in my network(that has shrunk thanks to Obamacrap). Going over the snow is not an option when I get 6 foot drifts across the end of the driveway. Can take me 2 hours to clear 10 feet. Sure I could hire someone... at $40 a pop and on SSDI that $40 is hard to come by. Especially since it would have to come from my ammo budget! My left leg loss is probably permanent already, been 3 years. Right leg just started in August though and when it goes I lose all function. Can't move it, can't feel it. Long as I don't stand to long in one spot it doesn't happen.

Acupuncture is not covered on my insurance. Wish is was. Had some back when I was working for the torn rotator cuff pain. Worked wonders and let me function for another week or two.

I have thoracic issues too, disc fragments in the spinal canal. Doc won't touch it unless it is life threatening. Add in bone spurs from the neck to my tailbone. Then there is the right shoulder that I had the rotator cuss fixed twice, the 80% tear on the left I have been ignoring because the right side surgery didn't help. Carpal tunnelboth sides, major bone spur in my right hip, right knee chewed up bone and cartilage with 1 surgery to remove it so far. Torn ACL in both knees, and a schwanoma removed from the sciatic nerve in my left hip. My GP calls me the walking wreck.

[rondog]

Daaamn.....getting old ain't for sissies is it?

[MrWolf]

Remember when we were invincible? Wonder why I hurt so much now and still do things that hurt, but at least limit that to what needs to be done and try to be smarter about it.

[10x]

Doc walked in and said "your lower back is really messed up". Showed me the scans, on disc is very bulged and compressing the spinal cord. 3 more are more or less gone. Had a lumbar decompression in 2009 and that is full of bone spurs and scar tissue that is pushing the vertebrae out of alignment. He wants to do a 4 level fusion, L1 to S1. I told him maybe in the spring unless I have an emergency like losing function in a leg more than temporarily. No way I can recover from back surgery and run the snow blower/shovel when needed.

Hard work never killed anyone, but I know a lot of guys that it crippled. Me included..

[rondog]

I never played sports, yet I'm still all buggered up. I can't even imagine how messed up old football players must be.

[smokeywolf]

Remember when we were invincible? Wonder why I hurt so much now and still do things that hurt, but at least limit that to what needs to be done and try to be smarter about it.

That's why I'm all stove up today. Horses, motorcycles, water skiing, gymnastics, track, wrestling, weight lifting, and all the injuries that went with them.

smokeywolf

[unclogum bill]

That guy who said "Hard work won't hurt you" must have been a member of the left that never done any.

[arjacobson]

That guy who said "Hard work won't hurt you" must have been a member of the left that never done any.

hehehehe...(as I sit here with my back and neck aching)

[10x]

That guy who said "Hard work won't hurt you" must have been a member of the left that never done any.

The guy who said "hard work never hurt anyone" was the guy writing the paycheck to the guys who were working...

[MaryB]

No the guys who say hard work never hurt anyone were always nowhere to be found when we had to do some at the casino. Plus most of them were half my age and I was outworking them 2:1. Laziest bunch of worthless do nothings I ever worked with. They were good at hiding and drinking pop/smoking cigs.

[Grendl]

+1 on getting it done, I had a lumbar laminectomy done five weeks ago , should have had it done three years ago, I had forgotten what it is like to be without constant pain or how to walk up right as God had intended for humans.
Rick

[Magana559]

I know exactly what you are going g threw.

I herniated L4-S1 and had a lamy on L4-5 and L5-S1 twice with no help.
On my second lamy I had a spinal fluid leak that just about killed me.
Pain was so bad at one point that it felt like my legs were on fire all day. If that wasn't bad enough I had both legs weakening and sciatica down both legs.

Then the spinal stenosis came and just put me over the edge, my neurosurgeon agreed to fuse my back.

L4-S1 is now fused and I'm feeling g better. Only on my third month out so I can't tell you how it will be down the road but now my leg pain is just about gone. But my back pain is worst so its definitely a trade off.

If all this wasn't bad enough the worst part is I just turned 25.

Good luck and take care.

[MaryB]

Yeah the surgery has zero guarantee it will help the back pain. After the laminectomy the pain receded a bit but in the last year it has returned with a vengeance. Now I have neck issues to go with it from the car accident, c5/6 and c6/7 discs are compressed. I need an entire new spine!