translating 3F to 2F

[Whiterabbit]

hi guys,

long story short. My honey hole doesn't have 3F powder, only 2F. bought a couple cans. Never shot it before in my life.

My muzzleloader is one of Joe Weist's 58 cal children, and it shoots the wings off flies at 50 yards with 80 grains of 3F.

Any ideas on how to make sure it can do the same with 2F? do I try a smidge more? a smidge less? dead nuts the same charge? Any recommendations on where to start to test loads?

80 grains of 3F runs a roundball roundabouts 1500 fps.

Thanks!

[johnson1942]

it will probably be more accurate still with 2f. a day with the gun and you will get their.

[waksupi]

You will just need to work up your load again. You should be able to find some charge to give the same accuracy. I would estimate a charge of 110-130 gr. 2F to match velocity and accuracy. I think that's why I shoot 3 f in everything, powder goes further!

[Whiterabbit]

good grief, really 110-130, potentially? That's wild.

[fouronesix]

Look in a ML/blackpowder load manual like the Lyman and compare direct between FF and FFF.
Some of them have both vel and pressure data. The data is out there if you are willing to look.

[carbine]

I am shooting 50 grns 3F with 58 round ball

[johnson1942]

waksupi: tell use more, you might convert me, what are the stats on pressure and what equals what. money is tight in my house and and if i can make powder go furthur ill try it.

[Rattus58]

hi guys,

long story short. My honey hole doesn't have 3F powder, only 2F. bought a couple cans. Never shot it before in my life.

My muzzleloader is one of Joe Weist's 58 cal children, and it shoots the wings off flies at 50 yards with 80 grains of 3F.

Any ideas on how to make sure it can do the same with 2F? do I try a smidge more? a smidge less? dead nuts the same charge? Any recommendations on where to start to test loads?

80 grains of 3F runs a roundball roundabouts 1500 fps.

Thanks!
What I would suggest you do is load the gun to 10 grains less, or about 70 grains of 2F and start there. Generally I'm looking for accuracy rather than speed. Once you have achieved your goal of accuracy... go hunting. Have you thought about Pyrodex P... not to change the powder/subject... :grin:

[johnson1942]

idaho ron like pyrodex p , is it that it is more accurate than rs? i have a .44 cast bullet muzzle loader im putting a new front sight on to day. make my own. and im going to resight it to 30 yards instead of 100 yards to use on rabbits in the creek bottoms. if prodex p is good i could save my black for my bigger guns. i can get the p locally. tell me more please.

[Maven]

All, If different brands of FFg v. FFFg are consistent[ly sized], then there's theoretically a 10% - 15% difference between the two. You then reset your volumetric measure accordingly. E.g., 80gr. FFg translates to ~70grs. FFFg...in theory, or until your chronograph tells you differently. The exception is the Swiss powder, and maybe Olde Eynsford as well, since the Swiss FFg is reported to be hotter than "standard" (e.g., Goex, Wano/Grafs). Btw, many people substitute FFFg* for FFg because they say it burns cleaner and because you can also use it to prime your flintlock's pan. Naturally, they adjust the charge because the former burns faster.

White rabbit, Do as Rattus suggests and start conservatively, load each granulation carefully, and chronograph your loads if possible.


*E.g., my friend uses 70grs. Swiss FFFg and sometimes Goex FFFg in his .54cal. Jim Chambers flintlock and has taken many deer with that combination.

[Hanshi]

I'd think somewhere between 10% and 20% more 2F should equal your 3F velocity and accuracy.

[waksupi]

waksupi: tell use more, you might convert me, what are the stats on pressure and what equals what. money is tight in my house and and if i can make powder go furthur ill try it.

I have no stats on pressure, just results from shooting. No doubt 3f will generate a bit more pressure than 2f.

[johnson1942]

several years ago after i heard a local young man won a shooting contest at fur trader days with 4f. i thought i would try it. i had back then a couple of .50s with good american custom barrels on them.i still dont know if i was reckless but it shot very accurate, really cracked like a long rifle and had very very little residue in the barrel. was too scared to try it again. ive read but dont know for sure that 4f can get dangerous in even a new colt saa. i think when i drive down to scottsbluff again ill pick up some 3f. thanks

[hylander]

In my Hawken and Great Plains .50 Cals, I shot 70gr. of FF and it gave me the same velocity as 60gr. of FFF
Both shot to the same POA with the same accuracy.

[GARD72977]

Swiss is really hot powder. I plane to use the crony this weekend and will report back. Swiss is expensive but if you are going from 2f to 3f then you would reduce 15% then take another 15% off. Its like a woman shopping on double sale day!

[Whiterabbit]

I put a few balls down range. sandbags and 50 yards, standing offhand at 25 yards. I only tried 80 grains of 2f, because there seems no difference? I didn't have time to set up the chronograph (I had about 30 minutes to shoot in total including target setup time) but in the half dozen+ balls I shot, there seemed to be no point of impact change nor group size change that I could detect, between 80 grains 2f and 80 grains 3f.

given only 25 and 50 yards is that... normal? I should see more droop with 2f at 100 yards?

[Odinbreaker]

The 58 should shoot better with 2 f than three I would only increase by 10 gr. You will see no difference. I use a 54 with both and have no problems. I can use 2 ff or 3 f in the pan and it will fire