Powder charges vary by up to 2 grains.

[Muddydogs]

So I decided to weight some powder charges from the volume powder measure. I use Pyrodex RS and found that out of 10 charges most were within .5 grains but a couple charges were 2 grains off. How much difference will a 2 grain variation make in actual POI with Pyrodex?

[mooman76]

Unless you're bench shooting, you probably won't even notice.

[hylander]

I just did some weight comparisons today with 777 fff.

30gr. by Volume = 21.3 by Weight
25gr. by Volume = 18.4 by weight
This was consistent measurements, spot on.

When trying to measure only 20gr by Volume I could not get a consistent Weight measurement,
it fluctuated by up to .3gr by Weight, with 14.2gr being the avarage

[Rattus58]

So I decided to weight some powder charges from the volume powder measure. I use Pyrodex RS and found that out of 10 charges most were within .5 grains but a couple charges were 2 grains off. How much difference will a 2 grain variation make in actual POI with Pyrodex?A few years ago some of us took on this same project with mostly pyrodex P I believe most were shooting. What we found were that mostly what were the differences if you tossed it or tapped it and let the powder settle into the measure. I believe using that technique did much more for consistency and we found as much as 4 grains between measures of untapped and tapped. By tapping we are talking about filling, tapping and letting it settle, filling till it topped off, tap some more till you have it level. Point of impact. When shooting smaller calibers, like my 40 for example, 4 grains could be a substantial variation at lower charge weight. When you get into larger calibers, pressures drop dramatically as bore sizes increase and 2 grains or 4 grains on top of typical load variations aren't going to be outside your typical group size in my estimation. However, as Dutch Shultze told me on several occasion, consistency in a consistent loading environment means in competition the difference can mean the difference between steaks or burgers... :grin:

[44man]

Long ago when I shot competition a lot, I weighed charges to put in little plastic containers to test. I got worse groups then just using the measure. Thought it was me but more tests showed the measure is better even if it varies weight. Since then I fill the containers from the measure.
BPCR works better when I throw charges from my powder measure.

[GARD72977]

When I was big in to small bore cartridge guns I weighed everything! The powder had to be spot on. Well I got advice from a old benchrest shooter that told me he did not weigh each charge. I took is advice and bought a Harrel powder measure. I would just throw each charge straight into the cartridge with a drop tube. Turns out that the volume of powder is as important as the weight.

[bigted]

so Muddydogs ... tell us what the difference is. take yer shootin iron out and weigh 10 rounds and shoot the same target ... then volume load 10 rounds after a good cleanin and shoot the same target. load the loads the same with the same components except for the weighed versus the volume loading.

now clean and repeat. after shooting these for a good trial ... you will be equipped for the tellin us about the outcome.

[Rattus58]

Long ago when I shot competition a lot, I weighed charges to put in little plastic containers to test. I got worse groups then just using the measure. Thought it was me but more tests showed the measure is better even if it varies weight. Since then I fill the containers from the measure.
BPCR works better when I throw charges from my powder measure.I think that for something like this to be accurately determined, you have to toss your loads and run a string with a chronograph. Then you would need to measure your loads and run them over a chronograph and then see if the extra work is worth it... :grin:

[Rattus58]

so Muddydogs ... tell us what the difference is. take yer shootin iron out and weigh 10 rounds and shoot the same target ... then volume load 10 rounds after a good cleanin and shoot the same target. load the loads the same with the same components except for the weighed versus the volume loading.

now clean and repeat. after shooting these for a good trial ... you will be equipped for the tellin us about the outcome.Funny how some minds complement each other... thank you ... :grin:

[bigted]

LOL ... now that's funny!

[Hanshi]

In general, my fixed volume measures average less than a grain variance.

[Fly]

Well I don't agree, but that's me.I only shoot real black powder, so I can't comment on the other stuff.
But the only reason the ole timers used volume was it was easy to do in the field, no matter what is said.

But I still use volume in the field for the same reason.If I,m tuning a new gun, I weigh my powder.
To each there own.
Fly

[GARD72977]

Well I don't agree, but that's me.I only shoot real black powder, so I can't comment on the other stuff.
But the only reason the ole timers used volume was it was easy to do in the field, no matter what is said.

But I still use volume in the field for the same reason.If I,m tuning a new gun, I weigh my powder.
To each there own.
Fly

Agree or not there are plenty of very accurate shooters using volume. Check out some of the benchrest fourms and there is constant debate on this subject. I will say that you regular old RCBS powder measure will not cut it. I bought a small Harrell because I was shooting 17's and 20's. This IS NOT FOR BLACKPOWDER but the principle is the same. If you get constant volume of black powder you will get constant velocity. It is about the same with weighed or thrown charges. They will have about the same velocity strings.

[Fly]

Agree or not there are plenty of very accurate shooters using volume. Check out some of the benchrest fourms and there is constant debate on this subject. I will say that you regular old RCBS powder measure will not cut it. I bought a small Harrell because I was shooting 17's and 20's. This IS NOT FOR BLACKPOWDER but the principle is the same. If you get constant volume of black powder you will get constant velocity. It is about the same with weighed or thrown charges. They will have about the same velocity strings.

You hit the nail on the head (constant volume).That is the key.Weight is always the same no matter.But really we are cutting hairs
on this.Does Swiss powder weigh the same as say Goex?Well only if it is pressed to the same density.That is a lot of it in my thinking.

I have never really weighed over the counter BP from brand to brand.Only my home made against Goex.But maybe that's why Swiss
is faster.If someone can weigh Swiss to Goex it would be nice to know.

Fly

[Muddydogs]

so Muddydogs ... tell us what the difference is. take yer shootin iron out and weigh 10 rounds and shoot the same target ... then volume load 10 rounds after a good cleanin and shoot the same target. load the loads the same with the same components except for the weighed versus the volume loading.

now clean and repeat. after shooting these for a good trial ... you will be equipped for the tellin us about the outcome.

Well I will just as soon as my mold gets here so I can shoot cheaper bullets then the 300 grain XTP's I shoot for hunting. I have to wait until the new bolt shows up also as I pulled a stupid and messed up the original bolt when I was disassembling it for cleaning but that’s ok since it gave me a reason to switch to 209's instead of No11 caps. I wanted to mess around some more with my charge weights anyway so I will add a scale or pre measured charges in the range bag and see just how much difference a few grains make. Should be a good winter project, the first project will be figuring out a way to use the digital scale on the shooting bench without the wind effecting the reading.

[mooman76]

If you can find some kind of clear plastic box or cover.

[dikman]

the first project will be figuring out a way to use the digital scale on the shooting bench without the wind effecting the reading.

Yep, I tried weighing out powder on a set of scales with 0.001 resolution (in gns, of course) at the shooting bench and found that even the slightest breeze across the scales caused the reading to fluctuate! In that situation a volume measure is probably the only option.

[Fly]

Yep, I tried weighing out powder on a set of scales with 0.001 resolution (in gns, of course) at the shooting bench and found that even the slightest breeze across the scales caused the reading to fluctuate! In that situation a volume measure is probably the only option.

Well the way I get around that is to weigh it at home, & put it in viles.That way you can just pour it in.

Fly

[Hanshi]

When I hunt deer, where only two or three shots at most will be fired, I carry pre-weighed charges with me. I find this method easier to deal with than trying to use a horn and measure. I'm a fumbler and if can be screwed up, then I'm your man.

[Junior1942]

I use Lee Dippers for ALL my reloading, Pyrodex & smokeless. I heated the bottons of several 1.9 and up dippers and pushed them in or out according to whether I wanted less or more. I now have a set going from 1.7 cc to 3.7 cc in .1 to .2 grs increments. The key to uniformly dipped charges is absolute uniformity in how you dip. If you scrape the dipper through the powder one time and push it in the powder the next time and let it fill, the two charges will vary .5 gr to 1.0 gr.

To dip for smokeless loading, it's a simple matter of using a load which matches one of my dippers. Now if I were a 100-yard one-hole target shooter or a 1,000 yard target shooter, I'd weigh my charges.

[dikman]

Fly, that is actually what I do (it's mandatory at the range to only use pre-measured charges in individual containers). That day I needed a variation to my normal charges - I eventually gave up as I couldn't get consistent measurements due to the wind.