FFFG in a .54 Cal.

[bgokk]

My standard load for my TC Renegade .54 Cal. is 90 grains(volume) of Goex FFG behind a .530" patched RB.

Here is what I am looking for, the possible use of FFFG in the .54 Cal.

I was just given 3# of Gearheart-Owens FFFG. Has anyone used FFFG with the patched RB in .54 Cal.? If you have what amount would give similar ballistics to the load listed above.

Thanks for all replies.

[Fly]

I shoot 70 grains of my home made in my .54 cal GPR.It is a tack driver.I get 1300 fps.

Fly

[Rattus58]

My standard load for my TC Renegade .54 Cal. is 90 grains(volume) of Goex FFG behind a .530" patched RB.

Here is what I am looking for, the possible use of FFFG in the .54 Cal.

I was just given 3# of Gearheart-Owens FFFG. Has anyone used FFFG with the patched RB in .54 Cal.? If you have what amount would give similar ballistics to the load listed above.

Thanks for all replies.
3F is ALL I use in everything. It's probably not the best for some calibers and too much for others... but my 58's all use 3F and one is an great hunting driver with a wad over powder and patched round ball... :grin: :cool:

[Rick Hodges]

I use 90 gr. of Goex fffg and a patched round ball in my .54 Lyman Plains Rifle. I also use it behind various full caliber boolits in my .54 cal. TC Scout Carbine. It is all I use except for my inline Omega sabot gun.

[carbine]

Many skirmishers use 35-50 grains of 3F in their .58 muskets.
Some are using it in .69 smoothbores

[Maven]

What excess650 said! Also, I just reviewed T/C's loading data for .54cal. RB's and found they didn't recommend FFFg at all, which isn't to say I agree with them. I've used it in my .50cals. - .60cal. and really don't "get" T/C's reasoning. Could it be their attorneys told them it was "dangerous"?

[jcwit]

My understanding is the finer the powder the quicker you run into dangerous pressure.

Time to do reading and research into the black powder manuals.

[Rattus58]

My understanding is the finer the powder the quicker you run into dangerous pressure.

Time to do reading and research into the black powder manuals.You are right about pressure differences, 3F with its smaller granules has much more surface for ignition than 2F. This is one reason that folks reduce powder volumes when shooting 3F and I don't remember anymore because I use loads pretty much half or at most 3/4's of what is recommended and I use a chronograph. That being my case though, if your gun is recommended to shoot 100 grains of 2F, in my opinion you'd be careless to load more than about 80 or 85 grains of 3F.

[Fly]

You are right about pressure differences, 3F with its smaller granules has much more surface for ignition than 2F. This is one reason that folks reduce powder volumes when shooting 3F and I don't remember anymore because I use loads pretty much half or at most 3/4's of what is recommended and I use a chronograph. That being my case though, if your gun is recommended to shoot 100 grains of 2F, in my opinion you'd be careless to load more than about 80 or 85 grains of 3F.

Well I agree 100% with the above quote.I,m only using 70 grains 3 fffg & getting over 1300 fps from a round ball.Why use 100 grain of 2 ffg & get
the same fps?
Fly jmohop

[bgokk]

Well I agree 100% with the above quote.I,m only using 70 grains 3 fffg & getting over 1300 fps from a round ball.Why use 100 grain of 2 ffg & get
the same fps?
Fly jmohop

That is the amount of 3fg I had in mind when I started this thread. Great minds.[smilie=1:

I want to thank every one for their input.:drinks:

BTW I recently killed my chronograph, shot it 5 times with my AR. Darn high sight line. Did not get a reading and thought (got to quit that) I was too high so held lower for each shot.:groner:

[longbow]

Here's another vote for FFFg in everything.

It seems to me that common wisdom is to use FFg in anything over .50 cal. but back when I shot muzzleloaders a lot, all I could normally find was FFFg so used it in .45, .50, .58 and 12 ga. with no problems at all and sorry to say I was not all that careful about heavy loads when I was young and foolish. The .58's were often loaded pretty heavy but no mishaps and I am certainly not recommending overloads.

I did try FFg when some was available but found that it shot dirtier and lower velocity (based on trajectory because I didn't have a chronograph then). I figured it would be a better powder for the 12 ga. but did not find it so.

Also, if you want to compare pressures, take look through the Lyman Blackpowder handbook to see the incredible difference in charges. pressures and velocities between Curtis and Harvey vs. Gearhart - Owen.

Hah! I just got my Lyman manual out and all they list for .54 cal. is FFFg. In fact they list up to 140 grs. of G-O under a 410 gr. Minie for a Navy Arms barrel. Pressure listed is 15,430 CUP.

With a different barrel they show:

- 120 grs. G-O; pressure = 14,720 CUP
- 190 grs. C&H; pressure = 12,480 LUP

They seem to switch from LUP to CUP at about 12,000.

That is a bit of an eye opener.

Anyway, at .58 cal. they switch to FFg.

Since you mention round ball, Lyman shows:

- 34" Navy Arms barrel
- 0.535" round ball; 220 grs.
- charge = 140 grs. G-O FFFg
- Velocity = 1973 FPS
- pressure = 15,000 CUP

Longbow

[DIRT Farmer]

In my 28 Trade gun a touch hole liner will not make it through a season of match shooting (shotgun) with fffg but some years will go two years with ffg. Some shooters used pyro powder (black not labled for sporting and poorly screaned) for shotgun when it was avatible, farily rapid erosion of the hole in the nipple and taking the hammer to half cock.
If shooting match and it works well the toll on the gun may be worth it if it helps win. When I replaced the liner this Spring the touch hole was spewing ffg at times.
I know the recomandations and publicly will stand by them.

[Whiterabbit]

I've used 80-100 grains of 3F in my 58 cal flintlock. 100 grains for same POI at 100 as 80 grains at 50. Roundball shooting. 80, 90, 100 is basically 1500, 1600, 1700 fps. My dream is to put 100 grains behind a ball and shoot a buffalo with it. But for now, I put 80 grains and try not to embarrass myself at the local club shoots.

[mainiac]

I use 90 fff in my 42" 54 flinter,,shoots to the same place as 110 ff.This is a heavy load.
In my 54/28 gauge smoothbore,,i use 70 grs fff (most accurate load),with ball and shot.

[59sharps]

In my musket I us 42 0f 3fffg. if caught short I us 10% more of 2ffg. gives me same point of aim and group size. Still playing w loads for my 72 cal smoothbore but right now 69 of 2ffg seams to work and 55 of 3fffg works.

[Beerd]

In my .50 my group size shrank considerable when I switched from 2f to 3f,
or was it from 3f to 2? I should a wrote that down.
Anyway, try both & see what your rifle likes best.
..

[irishtoo]

i buy and use only 3f goex, in .32 to .62, main and prime. my hunting load is 90grs 3f goex under a .526 ball in a flintlock. taken several deer with said load all pass thrus all dead quick. irishtoo

[fouronesix]

In a 54 cal according to Lyman data for GOEX:
90 gr FF under a 230 gr PRB should yield about 1550 fps at about 7.9k psi
75 gr FFF under a 230 gr PRB should yield about 1550 fps at about 10.5k psi

[Rattus58]

My standard load for my TC Renegade .54 Cal. is 90 grains(volume) of Goex FFG behind a .530" patched RB.

Here is what I am looking for, the possible use of FFFG in the .54 Cal.

I was just given 3# of Gearheart-Owens FFFG. Has anyone used FFFG with the patched RB in .54 Cal.? If you have what amount would give similar ballistics to the load listed above.

Thanks for all replies.
Yes and only thing I use in all my guns... from .40, .41, .451, .50, .540, and all of my 58's and shotguns. It may not be the best for some but I shoot over wads for all shooting and with the 58 is really accurate. I got tired of buying 2F, 3F and 4F all the time and 3 and 4F is all I gots now... :D :cool:

[oldfart1956]

Like many here I use 3fg in everything....from the .36 cal. T/C Patriot to the Brown Bess. I buy it in 25lb. loose cases then can it up in Goex cans donated by friends and family. Twenty cans will hold 25lbs. of powder if you bump them a bit to settle the powder. I shoot mainly smoothbores so no need to load heavy...but turkey loads in the Bess are.....brisk. The 3fg keeps the fouling down, I don't have the time or patience to wipe between shots, and doing that with many of the patent style breeches will cause as many problems as it solves. A word of caution...if you're the type that doesn't focus on the task at hand a double-charge of 2fg would probably be survivable....doing that with 3fg may not be. So be forewarned. Audie....the Oldfart..

[LongJnSilver]

Hey, take heart! Better to shoot yer chronograph" than what this unwise Oreganer shot!
https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/09/oregon-man-shoots-self-in-groin-while-showing-off-gun-in-supermarket-checkout-line-cops-say.html
: )
To make things worse, in the ambulance ride on the way to the ER, he managed to reach his phone and Google: "patch balls"... ended up on our forum!

[Caswell Ranch]

Hey, take heart! Better to shoot yer chronograph" than what this unwise Oreganer shot!
https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/09/oregon-man-shoots-self-in-groin-while-showing-off-gun-in-supermarket-checkout-line-cops-say.html
: )
To make things worse, in the ambulance ride on the way to the ER, he managed to reach his phone and Google: "patch balls"... ended up on our forum!

I have to ask, why post on a 2013 thread about 3F powder in a .54 cal with a story about a Sept 2020 accident

[waksupi]

I have to ask, why post on a 2013 thread about 3F powder in a .54 cal with a story about a Sept 2020 accident

Threads never die here!

[Caswell Ranch]

Threads never die here!

But it has nothing to do with the original thread

[waksupi]

But it has nothing to do with the original thread

We tend to do that, too! I've seen topics started on such topics as head spacing, and before you know it, the discussion has turned to John Deere tractors! This forum is famous for topic drift.

[Edward]

Well I agree 100% with the above quote.I,m only using 70 grains 3 fffg & getting over 1300 fps from a round ball.Why use 100 grain of 2 ffg & get
the same fps?
Fly jmohop

Reason is 3F gets there faster, 100 grains of 2F is most likely out the muzzle before it is done/3F is done before . Thats why 3F is used in pistols/Ed

[shdwlkr]

old rule was to reduce load by 10-15% when using 3f instead of 2f

[FLINTNFIRE]

I always preferred 3f in my 50 and used it in bigger , but have used 2f and even 1f before , shot heavy loads and light loads , much prefer a more middle of the road and it still is plenty for most of my shooting at rocks cans and paper , and if I go hunting again I see no reason to stuff a heavy load in it , 3f fills my needs for rifle and pistol and is all I use in my flintlock and cap guns .

I like to see old threads come back , and do not mind the drift at times .

[nightwolf1974]

My standard load for all my .54cals in a .530 RB or .54cal Maxi-Ball over 100 grains of FF. They both hit a KILL good.

[armoredman]

This really DOES fit perfectly in what happened today, as I just bought my first muzzle loading rifle, a TC Renegade in .54, and the only powder I have is Goex 3F, Olde Eynsforde 3F and Pyrodex P. So, if I read correctly the load is between 70 and 90 grains of 3F under a patched round ball?

[Shanghai Jack]

Like many here I use 3fg in everything....from the .36 cal. T/C Patriot to the Brown Bess. I buy it in 25lb. loose cases then can it up in Goex cans donated by friends and family. Twenty cans will hold 25lbs. of powder if you bump them a bit to settle the powder. I shoot mainly smoothbores so no need to load heavy...but turkey loads in the Bess are.....brisk. The 3fg keeps the fouling down, I don't have the time or patience to wipe between shots, and doing that with many of the patent style breeches will cause as many problems as it solves. A word of caution...if you're the type that doesn't focus on the task at hand a double-charge of 2fg would probably be survivable....doing that with 3fg may not be. So be forewarned. Audie....the Oldfart..

So where does one purchase a 25lb case of powder?

[LAGS]

I mostly shoot 70 gr of 3f in my .54s.
Or 90 gr of homemade because the density of my home made is just a little less, especially my screened powder

[RoyEllis]

So where does one purchase a 25lb case of powder?

Powder Inc. sells 25lb cases, you can even get 2 cases on the same purchase/shipment.

[armoredman]

I mostly shoot 70 gr of 3f in my .54s.
Or 90 gr of homemade because the density of my home made is just a little less, especially my screened powder

And I will try that. Just so everyone is aware, this IS a LAGS rifle! That means quality.

[Rich/WIS]

My old Lyman Black Powder Handbook has loads with G-O 3f for 54 rifles for both RB and conicals. I have no clue how to scan and send but if anyone needs the data can copy and snail mail.

[OverMax]

Its suggested in the Thomson C instruction manual above 50 cal 2-FFG is used. Using 3-FFFG in 54 & larger bores would require a work up in powder charging's for best accuracy which is the best way for anyone's B/powder use - I think. Especially so when not having the manufactures B/P instruction manual handy.

[armoredman]

My old Lyman Black Powder Handbook has loads with G-O 3f for 54 rifles for both RB and conicals. I have no clue how to scan and send but if anyone needs the data can copy and snail mail.

You could take the pics with your phone and upload?

[megasupermagnum]

This really DOES fit perfectly in what happened today, as I just bought my first muzzle loading rifle, a TC Renegade in .54, and the only powder I have is Goex 3F, Olde Eynsforde 3F and Pyrodex P. So, if I read correctly the load is between 70 and 90 grains of 3F under a patched round ball?

This is in the Lyman blackpowder manual for a 54 caliber with 28" barrel.

FFFg Goex
https://i.ibb.co/6DKDjsv/IMG-20220301-005701258.jpg (https://ibb.co/6DKDjsv)


Pyrodex P
https://i.ibb.co/sg3wb2F/IMG-20220301-005827178.jpg (https://ibb.co/sg3wb2F)

My advice is to stick with 70 grains of either to start. Find the best ball and patch combo before adjusting powder.

[dave951]

Hows this for 3f in a 54 flintlock?
Yeah, it's not a problem if you cut your charge a bit and work for best accuracy.

297014

[Texas by God]

Today I discovered that 30grs of FFFFG shoots to the sights on my .54 Lyman Plains Pistol that is regulated ( by me) for 50grs of FFG. I'll continue to use 2F until it's gone or save it for hunting and use up this Pyrodex RS that I have for plinking.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[indian joe]

Some years back an old ( well older than me) Deere man was hauling me around his central ILL-nois area. We came across a farm with a long row of "green" well restored tractors. So brakes were applied and we of course invested some time "inspecting" the green herd.
Towards the end I asked "So where are the Olivers"? That set off a tirade of verbal abuse that was well played out the rest of the day.

only ever saw a couple of olivers, john deer was as uncommon here before 1965 - before 1950 I reckon every second ag tractor was a lanz bulldog in our part of the country most of the rest were red - International and massey harris - a few fordsons -about 1960-65 our own grown Chamberlain brand got going strong .
Deer got most of their success in Europe and downunder by corporate buyout -Europe they bought Lanz and dissappeared those tractors - did the same in Australia about 1975? they bought Chamberlain to get the dealer network, made crossbred yellow tractors for a while to fulfil goverment conditions, and soon as that expired they closed the aussie factory and disappeared the aussie made machines. At a time when most other makers were peddling junk, IH had exploding rear ends, Massey ferguson had exploding midsections, and ford managed to perfect the "thin wall casting" exploding engine -none of them wanted to know you when they broke, JD took the opposite tack - they identified the faults, owned it, put a program in place to rectify the problem - I had several warranty call programs done to my tractor to fix things that had not broken yet - a novel approach at the time got them a lot of business - I bet they are not doing that anymore (the sales war has been won) . When I was a kid H V McKay - Massey- Harris (later MF) owned the harvester and cultivation market in this country MF management threw it down the toilet trying to force broadacre farmers into using linkage equipment . At present seeing a surge in the resale value of those old 70's /80's articulated tractors - I expect that to continue - anything pre computer days, as long as its not green - old versatiles, acremasters, steigers, truck motors, truck trannies, they can actually be fixed - its either that or pay a million bucks for a new green one.