Questions regarding SMLEs - No. 4 Mk.I - No. 4 Mk. I* - No. 4 Mk. I/T

[Naphtali]

Moderator: I was uncertain whether to place this query in GUNSMITHING or in MILITARY RIFLES. If you believe it is wrongly placed, please move it.
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During World War II Great Britain, Canada, and the United States manufactured variations of the SMLE No. 4 rifle. And Holland & Holland rendered a small number of No.4 Mk. Is into sniping/target rifles for extreme long-range accuracy.

1. No. 4 Mk. Is have a spring-loaded vertical interlock that need be used to allow its bolt head (and bolt) to be removed from the receiver while No.4 Mk. I*s use a simplified system that dispenses with the interlock assembly in favor of a rotating bolt head-with-slot. I am nearly certain that No.4 Mk. I*s are unable to use No.4 Mk. I bolt heads because the slot that allows bolt insertion and removal is absent. . . . BUT can No.4 Mk. Is accept and function correctly with No.4 Mk. I* bolt heads? Is the presence of its slot irrelevant for use in a receiver that allows bolt head to be manipulated by way of an interlock?

2. Holland & Holland created a small number of long-range No.4 Mk. I rifles. Did these rifles use [especially adjusted] military trigger assemblies, or did Holland & Holland use some sort of target/competition trigger that was designed to be adjustable? If the trigger was a military assembly, what was the result of 'smithing it - that is, weight of pull, creep, did it retain the "double-pull" feature, etc.? I've always believed that while standard military double-pull triggers can be "improved" by a gunsmith to become acceptable for most big game hunting, for precision a 500-800 yards, such improvement by gunsmith just wasn't possible.

3. Following up #2, since SMLEs as competition rifles have been in use for generations, it is likely that third-party match triggers have been made. Please identify adjustable target/competition trigger assemblies, also such trigger assemblies that can be installed on No.4 Mk. IIs.

4. Many years ago I read an article that described a simple, easy, inexpensive method to alter No.4 elevation-ONLY rear sight assemblies to allow some windage adjustment also. Of course I no longer have the article, nor do I remember the process described. I will appreciate information pertaining to how to render the sight assembly adjustable for windage and elevation.

5. Following up #4, please identify adjustable target/competition rear sight assemblies, preferably that are close to as compact and sturdy as the military assembly.

[lancem]

I don't know enough to answer your first four questions well, but for #5 this is what I bought for my No. 4, it should arrive this week.

Parker Hale Rear Target Match Sight for No.4 Enfieldield
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/parkerhalerearsighttargmatchforno4enfield.aspx

[Outpost75]

My No. 4 Mk.1 ROF(F) 7/43 and Long Branch No. 4 Mk.1* will not interchange bolt heads.

Holland & Holland No.4Mk1*Ts I have examined had selectively fitted standard military trigger assemblies.

Holland & Holland reworked snipers had the barrel shimmed under the Knox form, and had muzzle bearing at the upper band.

Canadian snipers have the barrel shimmed under the Knox form, but use the centre bearing method applying up pressure adjacent the lower band, with the fore-end and handguards relieved to clear rest of the barrel forward to the muzzle.

Both rifles will shoot 4-5" ten-shot groups at 200 yards using PPU (Privi-Partizan Yugo) MkVIIIz 174-gr. boattail ammunition. Ten-shot groups at 200 yards using handloaded Sierra .311" 174-grain Matchking bullets in Norma brass with Federal 210M primers and 41 grains of RL15 average approximately 3", firing off sandbags with fixed 4X scope and post reticle.

84838


The A.J. Parker 8/53 backsight conversion fits over the standard milled rear battlesight and provides precise click adjustments for both windage and elevation.

84839

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Naphtali;2438100]

1. No. 4 Mk. Is have a spring-loaded vertical interlock that need be used to allow its bolt head (and bolt) to be removed from the receiver while No.4 Mk. I*s use a simplified system that dispenses with the interlock assembly in favor of a rotating bolt head-with-slot. I am nearly certain that No.4 Mk. I*s are unable to use No.4 Mk. I bolt heads because the slot that allows bolt insertion and removal is absent. . . . BUT can No.4 Mk. Is accept and function correctly with No.4 Mk. I* bolt heads? Is the presence of its slot irrelevant for use in a receiver that allows bolt head to be manipulated by way of an interlock? QUOTE

In over fifty years of living with #4 rifles, I hadn't heard this story.

SOOOOO.... I took the bolts out of:

1. my 1943 Long Branch (Canadian) #4Mk1*, and

2. my 1955 Fazakerly (British) #4Mk2.

Both rifles re in new condition. The #4Mk2 differs only in the manner of trigger installation. There is no difference affecting the bolts, except that the 1955 rifle has the spring-loaded bolt-removal catch, and the 1943 rifle has the bolt-track cut-out.

I successfully interchanged the bolts between the rifles. Everything functioned correctly, including the safeties.

This is precisely what I expected, but I thought I'd try it out anyway. ALL #4 rifles have rotating bolt heads.

On the subject of sights, I have installed a Parker-Hale #5C match sight on the Fazakerly rifle. That "C" is VERY important in obtaining the correct version for the #4 rifle.... and make sure it comes with the mounting screws, or be prepared for a search to find a couple of screws that will cost about twenty bucks!

[Naphtali]

[QUOTE=Naphtali;2438100]

• • • On the subject of sights, I have installed a Parker-Hale #5C match sight on the Fazakerly rifle. That "C" is VERY important in obtaining the correct version for the #4 rifle.... and make sure it comes with the mounting screws, or be prepared for a search to find a couple of screws that will cost about twenty bucks!



Dear Sir:

We may have solved part of my series of No. 4 queries. I obtained a Parker-Hale windage & elevation adjustable No. 4 match sight assembly. It appears to be a replacement for military rear sights with minor gunsmithing on sight's location - that is, it looks as though it will fit, function, and be as sturdy and protected, essentially, as the machined elevation adjustable military sight.

What I cannot confirm is that it is correct for my No. 4 receiver - unless your caveat was for trying to use No. 4 sight on No. 1 receiver (and vice versa).
87275

87277

[BruceB]

I have not handled a sight like the one pictured in your post, but it certainly does appear to be a direct replacement for the military sight on the #4 Rifle. I see a plunger and spring there, which looks the same as the issue items on the #4. Therefore, this sight will retain the valuable folding option of the issue sight.

I'm a little uneasy with the idea of drilling holes for installation, but apparently the sight is designed in such fashion that the hole is needed.

The Parker-Hale #5C sight is very different and likely more delicate than the one you have; it is click-adjustable in windage and elevation and incorporates a true vernier scale for repeatability. It also likely weighs several times as much as your sight.... it is massive.

The 5C sight installs very easily, using just the long rear screw as you have, and a slightly-longer ejector screw on the side of the action body. The 5C sight is probably not nearly as durable as the one you picture.

What did you pay for the sight? It looks like a very practical way to put windage adjustment on a #4. (The 5C, a true "target" sight for shooting up to (and over) 1000 yards, can run as high as $200 or even higher.... not for the casual shooter, I'd say! (Just us nuts!)

[lancem]

The Sarco is the sight I installed on mine. My rifle did not have a flip sight when I bought it, it did have the spring in the plunger hole though which was good. I had to make a plunger and after a lot of messing around found that in order to get the sight to sit vertical in the up position the plunger needs a rather large flat head, I have no idea how the original plunger is shaped. (The plunger was made from a #10 drill shank which fits perfectly in the hole and was reduced to on the end to fit into the spring) To the top of the plunger I silver soldered a piece of steel that was approximately 3/16" wide and 1/4" long, it started out larger and was shaped to fit so that the bolt could be removed with the sight in the down position.

[nanuk]

just a quick question here, regarding the names

is the SMLE not the No 1?
and the No4's are not called SMLE's?