Gonna do some exhaustive lube/minie tests this weekend

[jonk]

In finding the best load, once and for all, for my Euroarms 1858 Enfield replica, I am going to do the following (Lyman 575213 is what I have right now but may order another mold with a deeper cavity).

Each set of strings will be fired with both blackpowder and loose FFG equivalent pyrodex.

5 shots no lube, cleaning after each shot.
5 shots with Bullshops blackpowder lube. (Probably better for cartridges but will try with the front stuffer too)
5 shots with TC bore butter
5 shots with Crisco

5 shots no lube, cornmeal filler, cleaning after each shot.
5 shots with Bullshops blackpowder lube. (Probably better for cartridges but will try with the front stuffer too) Use filler
5 shots with TC bore butter, cornmeal filler
5 shots with Crisco, cornmeal filler.

Total: 80 shots.

Boy that will take me awhile..... and will send a LOT of lead downrange- I think I'll need to dig some of it out when done! Once I find the one from the above that works best, then I'll start playing around with the powder charge. Roughly 60 grains is my start point; I'll play around with everything from 50 to about 80 though.

Incidentally the gun will shoot 2" at 50 yards with bore butter as it is so that's my control, more or less.

[Rattus58]

But stuff like that is FUN!

Aloha... :cool: :drinks:

[PAT303]

In Australia the military M/L's get a good workout and the PH are the pick.One thing about them is the bigger minnies always out-shoot the lighter shorter one's.We have found this after many years and countless test's.A bit off good advice is only use enough lube to get the rifle to shoot and no more.I stand my minnies in the boiler and scoop the lube over them and take them out and put them on wax paper,if they look like they have no lube their right,when they dry you will see a light covering and thats all you need.I wish I could shoot with you,sounds like fun.I'll look for your follow up thread. Pat

[JeffinNZ]

JONK: you will be black and blue by the end of the day. Have fun.

[Buckshot]

..............Jonk, I'm a bit curious why you're going to be using a filler over the powder in a muzzle loader? What's that going to do, protect the Minie'? If I might suggest, when you have a chance pick up a 2C Lee REAL. They cast fast and for plain fun shooting do very well. Kind of a PITA to lube, but getting yourself all dirty and greased up is kind of part of the ML'er thing. At least I get pretty dirty and greased up :-)

.................Buckshot

[jonk]

Why the filler? Just because I can, just for the heck of it, because I've never used a filler in a muzzleloader and want to see what will happen. Can't hurt.

[Rattus58]

..............Jonk, I'm a bit curious why you're going to be using a filler over the powder in a muzzle loader? What's that going to do, protect the Minie'? If I might suggest, when you have a chance pick up a 2C Lee REAL. They cast fast and for plain fun shooting do very well. Kind of a PITA to lube, but getting yourself all dirty and greased up is kind of part of the ML'er thing. At least I get pretty dirty and greased up :-)

.................Buckshot

Blame Uncle Rich... that's his exhaustive experimentations gettin out of quarantine, soon it'll be an epidemic... followed most likely as a pandemic .... soon ... like the words of "alices restaurant" sayed.... "And the only reason I'm
singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar
situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a
situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into
the shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get
anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if
one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement."

:-D:-D:-D:drinks:

[PAT303]

Filler is allowed under international rules so someone must be useing it. Pat

[JeffinNZ]

Blame Uncle Rich... that's his exhaustive experimentations gettin out of quarantine, soon it'll be an epidemic... followed most likely as a pandemic .... soon ... like the words of "alices restaurant" sayed.... "And the only reason I'm
singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar
situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a
situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into
the shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get
anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if
one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement."

:-D:-D:-D:drinks:

...and that's what it is. The Alice's Restaurant Massacre of Movement and all you gotta do to join..................

GREAT piece of music.

"Kid...............have you ever been arrested?"

[44man]

You are going to run into one problem. The skirt on that Minie' is too thin for heavy loads. Much over 60 gr's will flare the skirt when it leaves the muzzle and it will turn into a shuttle cock.
Keep us informed how the accuracy is with heavy loads. :drinks:

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Glad to see you shooting a minie gun. Of course I advocate a reaseach visit to N-SSA.ORG, particularly the arms discussion forum, as so many are unaware of the North-South Skirmish Association. I've been shooting the musket of one type or another for exactly 40 years off & on with them, and they have lots of expertise. I can tell you right off to save the unlubed bullets. Won't shoot well. Design of bullets and gun for sure. Briefly, the answer is 1 1/2 thousands or a bit less clearance on perfectly cast lead minies, a soft, but won't run lube, light consistent seating of the bullet, and a consistent cap out of a first class barrel. My 2-band enfield uses the big RCBS minie, 40 grains of Goex fffg(3f for finer fouling), clocks at 850fps at 10 yards, touches holes at 50 and 3" at 100 yards. Assuming old BvT is seeing straight that day. Lots of good discussion there. Their goal is to preserve the shooting of all CW arms, and they do it! Good Shooting to you. BvT

[PAT303]

I have shot Goex in my rifle but found it very weak.I use PPP wano as swiss is no longer available in Oz.I don't go over 60grns in charge unless i'm shooting past 100 as I knocked one of my back teeth out shooting 100grn's when I first bought it.I learned the hard way. Pat

[Rattus58]

Hey.. Jeff.... I'm taking a fifth fer that..... agave that be.... that I can get at Alice's place.... along wit my friend the rabbit.. who agrees that one pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small and the ones that mother gives you don't do anything at all go ask Alice when she's ten feet tall

Who is a good muzzleloader or longbow experienced guide in New Zealand that is good and cheap.... :) Ok.... reasonable then.... :grin:

Aloha... Tom :cool: :drinks:

[JeffinNZ]

Not sure but I have a friend coming down from Alaska to hunt with his MLer and I am meeting him next week so I will ask who he has a hunt booked with.

Of course there is me and I am very reasonable but know nothing about bow hunting. :-D

Could show you some wallabies. Good sport with a front stuffer and the biggest dang mouse you will ever see.

[Underclocked]

Jeff, how much cornmeal are you going to use? I have a cheapo plastic flask with a spout that drops ~28 grains by volume. Works well.

You might want to also try a drop tube.

[shooter575]

[QUOTE= You might want to also try a drop tube.[/QUOTE]

Heahe,I thought the 33" barrrel is considered the drop tube I agree with the Barron on this one.
Old skirmishers have all been there before

[Underclocked]

Hey, he's experimenting. :)

[Rattus58]

Not sure but I have a friend coming down from Alaska to hunt with his MLer and I am meeting him next week so I will ask who he has a hunt booked with.

Of course there is me and I am very reasonable but know nothing about bow hunting. :-D

Could show you some wallabies. Good sport with a front stuffer and the biggest dang mouse you will ever see.

I can forgive you fer that.... I have a muzzleloader too.... *grin*

[Buckshot]

..............So how did the testing come out?

..............Buckshot

[jonk]

Well it was most irritating honestly. The gun did a personal worst with all loads tested! It was shooting a good foot to the left at 50 yards. Grouping was miserable.

I had mainly shot it in the summer and then accuracy was fine. Perhaps a hotter cap or tighter bullet? Or FFFG instead of FFG, just for kicks. I ordered an oversize 578 Lee mould. Even if it won't fit I have a 575 sizing die so at very least it is a different profile bullet to try.

It didn't show any marked preference for Pyrodex/black powder or with/without filler, or using Crisco, Bore butter, or Bullshop's black powder lube. I tried loads from 50 grains to 80 grains- again no preference.

More experiments are in order.

I might add I haven't played with band tension or anything like that. Last summer the gun shot an honest if not sterling 6" group at 50 yards, now it was all over the place.

We'll see if I get a chance to play with it this weekend some more.

[Rattus58]

Hey Jonk.... I traded my enfield back for a zoave when I first bought it, but I was having problems when the barrel got hot. I didn't know much about the artistry of woodwork then, maybe a little less than I know now, but I opened up the entire length of the barrel so that it was resting only on the front brass. My plan was to then bed the barrel all the way to the muzzle, but retired the gun. However, the gun shot much better after relieving the barrel from the stock.

Aloha... Tom :cool::drinks:

[hpdrifter]

Hey.. Jeff.... I'm taking a fifth fer that..... agave that be.... that I can get at Alice's place.... along wit my friend the rabbit.. who agrees that one pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small and the ones that mother gives you don't do anything at all go ask Alice when she's ten feet tall



Aloha... Tom :cool: :drinks:

boss, boss.....the plane. jefferson variety.

[Rattus58]

:-D:-D:drinks:

[charger 1]

..............Jonk, I'm a bit curious why you're going to be using a filler over the powder in a muzzle loader? What's that going to do, protect the Minie'? If I might suggest, when you have a chance pick up a 2C Lee REAL. They cast fast and for plain fun shooting do very well. Kind of a PITA to lube, but getting yourself all dirty and greased up is kind of part of the ML'er thing. At least I get pretty dirty and greased up :-)

.................Buckshot


Fillers like corn have been used as I understand it with some success in RB and patch loads as a gas check

Checking the gas in a minie load,,,,, HHHMM

[macvcallsign]

Jonk, My 2 cents worth is first make sure the minie is no more than 0.002 under bore size. That pattern Lyman that you have should work fine with the original pattern barrel(3 lands and grooves). Has a nice thin skirt, deep cavity, and good bearing surface.

Next drop your loads down to 40 grs to start and work up at 2 gr increments to maybe 50 grs. You should end up somewhere in the middle.

I have used a lube for the last 37 yrs which is mostly Crisco(60%), Beeswax(20-25%), and Alox. Has worked very well with NO leading or fouling problems. vary the 1st two ingredients depending on the weather-HOT, add more beeswax, COLD-add more Crisco.

Bullet to bore size is of course critical. A filler will not help in this type of gun-at least from any experience I have come across.

Your original comment of 2" groups at 50 Yds with Borebutter seems pretty good! That's all in the 10 ring on an official 50 yd N-SSA target. Were those results from the bench?

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

I see you are in Ohio. If you are in the Northeast let me know and we can get together and work out the kinks. Good luck and keep us posted..

Dennis .

[jonk]

Hey Dennis,

I am indeed in the NE of Ohio; I live in Fairport Harbor, and make it to Cleveland about once a week to see my folks. I got some of the problems worked out; see my post entitled, "Fixed enfield 2 band accuracy problem."

Still, would always be happy to get out shooting.

Jon