Loading question for my H&R Tradoor 45-70

[303carbine]

I am shooting the 405 grain cast bullets with 30 grains of IMR 4198 with a dab of cotton filler, is this filler needed with smokeless loads?

[bigted]

I see you are not covered up with reply's to your query. I recently got my original 1888 trapdoor and the load she likes so far is the Lee 405 grain .459 inch hollow base boolit with a dab [6 grains] of 4227 next to the primer and filled up with [54 grains] GOEX 2F black powder covered with a .080 vegi wad. I can shoot 15 of these with the same accuracy of the third round ... takes it 3 to settle down ... reason ... UNKNOWN.

as for the filler you are using ... I have never used the fluffy filler ... using instead the corn meal or cream-o-wheat. these fillers allow me to fill the case so as to get around 1/8th compression of the load column. my loaded rounds with smokless are usually filled with such and I find my accuracy is better with this filler.

reason for the filler is ...[world according to ted]... they allow the powder charge to stay in place from shot to shot so that the powder burn is consistent along with the burn and pressure build up. which in turn allows the build up of gas power to hit the base of the boolit the exact same way every time. consistency begets accuracy.

another reason for the fill with some smokless powders is that in a larger case with a smaller charge of slower burning powder the likelihood of a huge flash improves as some of the powder did not burn at the rite time and waited for the gust of H2O to hit the un-burnt powder and ignite it with a bang. another thing to watch for is a hang fire that acts like a miss fire and goes off when the rifle is dismounted from the shoulder and hopefully pointed in a safe direction or in a less dramatic instance ... it goes off when the butt plate is around 2 or 3 inches from your shoulder and slams into you like a freight train with no expectation of the hit which could have adverse results.

so in short ... for accuracy I would continue the fill and from a comfort level I would also continue. is a 30 grain load of 4198 in need of a filler to make it safe ... I don't ...[another Ted-ism]... think it is going to be un-safe to shoot ... maybe in-accurate tho?

I shoot 30 grains of 3031 sometimes and I always use filler with that load. very pleasant to shoot and as accurate as I can hold with open sights. another load I really like is the 34 grains of RL7 with the cm fill as described behind a 400ish boolit and these I can shoot all day long. I have a scoped 45-70 that will put these into a tiny group as often as I do my job ... another plus with the cornmeal filler ...[gonna steal another members saying here]... upon shooting it smells like corn bread cookin ... sheesh now im hungry ... gotta go.

[303carbine]

That's exactly what I thought, I have always used cotton or dacron filler in straight wall cases where the case is big and the charge is small. it's nice to known I'm doing it right, thanks ted, John

[Larry Gibson]

I always use a Dacron filler with powders of 2400 or slower burn rate in my cast bullet loads for my TDs (original and 2 H&Rs). The filler does indeed hold the powder in position and gives a much better and more uniform ignition with better accuracy resulting.

I used cotton as a filler for a while until I started a fire (it burns) in the dry grass in front of the firing line twice with it. Dacron works exceedingly well, is inexpensive, easy to get and does not burn.

I have pressure tested COW and a couple other such fillers in the 45-70 with cast bullets and find the COW filler can raise pressures very quickly. Many times well above the max psi for the trapdoor rifle. I ran that test at the behest of a couple members here several years back. It may still be recoverable with a "search" (?) but if not I can repost some data.

With any filler you should start at the start load and work up using the filler as all fillers will increase the psi with a given load. Reason is two fold; 1st the filler increases the ignition efficiency. 2nd is the filler reduces the case volume.

Larry Gibson