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longbow
10-19-2013, 11:53 AM
I wasn't going to bother posting but I guess there is something to share in failure as well as success.

I loaded up some of my home made solid slugs with hot melt glue skirts (Brenneke style) along with some 0.662" RB's in the Uniwads Hogtamer sent me and some 0.678" RB's with attached glue skirts (AQ/Brenneke style).

Well, accuracy in all cases was dismal. Not sure why for the most part but thought I would share anyway.

The slugs and balls with skirts shot poorly which surprised me because they have done well in the past and I was quite confident that this was a good load. Hah! Not so apparently.

I had about 50 rounds loaded and ready to go. Most of them were the 0.662" RB's in Uniwads as the fit is very good and I was quite sure they were going to shoot well.

I started out with the 0.662" RB's and found I was getting sticky extraction which was a bit of a mystery and also poor accuracy which was also a mystery. I only shot 3 or 4 then decided something was amiss.

Recovered wads had sheared petals which really baffled me because these are a nice slide fit to the bore. Well, after looking a little harder and engaging the brain it occurred to me that the petals were sheared about 1/2 way down but the balls had been seated onto COW and with the middle of the ball just below the edges of the petals. It appears that COW compresses more than I thought it would allowing the ball to slide down the tapered petals creating a tighter fit, higher pressure and cause petal shearing.

Recovered wads from the slug and 0.678" RB loads showed little damage but accuracy was poor with large groups of 6" to 8" at 50 yards and some fliers. I should have kept targets I suppose but they were so bad I just stuck up a new target over the last one... these were not bragging targets!

Anyway, hulls, primers, powder and wads were all successful in the past with same or similar slugs for the most part. What I know I didn't do with the 0.662" RB's in Uniwads is to use a nitro card wad on the bottom and considering the obvious compression of the COW it would be better to space the ball up using nitro card wads then a small scoop of COW rather than use all COW to set ball height. Normally I would have done that but didn't have any nitro card wads that fit these small internal diameter wads.

I am thinking along the same lines for the other slugs and ball with glue skirts as again, I did not use nitro card wads under the slugs because the glue skirt is cast very nicely with sharp edges and flat bottom. However, while quite hard and solid the glue is "plastic" and does deform in the bore so I am thinking that without that solid nitro card wad support the sharp edges at the base got distorted so caused uneven drag.

So, now I have to reload and retry but using nitro card wads as that is really the only difference between these and previously successful loads.

So, what did I learn from this failure:

- I think that using the tall column of filler under the 0.662" RB was a mistake as the COW compressed allowing the ball to seat deeper which made for too tight fit. Also, I think the filler expanded to fill the chamber so had to re-compress going through the forcing cone which may or may not have contributed to high pressures but probably isn't a good idea anyway.
- since the recovered wads from slugs/balls with glue skirts were not dead flat as usual, the missing nitro card wad is probably the reason and skirt distortion probably occurred ~ re-testing with nitro card wads is about the only way I will prove it.
- Don't go loading up 30 or so hulls without testing the load completely because you just might wind up taking them apart! I now have about 26 loads to disassemble to get the 0.662" balls and Uniwads out. OUCH! These are likely scrap hulls now.

So, maybe there was something in the failure to save someone else some trouble.

Even though my results weren't good, it was a nice day and good to be shooting. You know what they say... "A bad day at the range is better than the best day at work!"

Longbow

SuperBlazingSabots
10-19-2013, 02:05 PM
Hello Elite Brother LongBow, I'm hoping you do have a good selection of .170 darker nitro cards to put right below slug and .125" nitro cards for the RB, I personally never put COW or even hot melt, not worth the time wasted and next thing there is no more fun left after putting in all that extra effort!

You will have better luck next time, for you are wiser now!

Good luck.

" A happy man is one who loads his own slugs and burn's powder at the range" - Super Blazing Sabots!

"Be the change that you wish to see in the world."
- Mahatma Gandhi


"An inventor fails 999 times, and if he succeeds once, he's in.
He treats his failures simply as practice shots. ~ Charles F. Kettering

Best regards,
Ajay
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-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.

longbow
10-19-2013, 03:34 PM
Ajay:

These slugs and round balls with attached wads have shown quite good accuracy in the past so I "tweaked" things a little and made a new mould.

The hot melt glue is an attached wad much like the old BPI AQ slug. So far though I am not doing as well as I was.

I will add the nitro card wad as I am pretty sure the glue skirt suffered distortion. Another test with the nitro card wads will answer that. If I still have failure, then back I go to my previous slug and retest that one. It shot quite well but was undersize for a specific wad so required "patching" to fit standard shotcups. It was labour intensive but pretty accurate.

All in all to 50 yards the plain 'ol round ball is hard to beat but my goal is decent groups to 100 yards. Not there yet! Or at least not with dependable groups, some are good I still get fliers.

This is from smoothbore of course.

I also have more work to do with my Brenneke'ized Lee Drive Key slugs which did quite well with added glue skirt but testing is in infancy yet.

If I do not succeed I have another plan but will have to make a rifling bench to produce a slow twist deep rifled choke tube for round ball and "square" slugs.

One way or another I will wind up with a "poor man's Paradox" gun even if I have to limit my shots to 50 or 60 yards. Still working on longer range accuracy though.

A guy needs something to keep him busy!

Longbow

cpileri
10-29-2013, 12:05 PM
thanks for sharing: all info is good, success and failure.
C-

SuperBlazingSabots
10-29-2013, 12:19 PM
Hello Brother LongBow, I fully agree with you and suffer fro the same decease, " A guy needs something to keep him busy!

Its always the case when you are ready to embark on success you have minute failures just to make you wake up.
I see you are right there, best of luck.

Choose good strong OP wad for success and back it with firm foundation, a darker nitro card!

Posting a few pictures will help visualize your project, Brother!

We all are in it to win it.
"An inventor fails 999 times, and if he succeeds once, he's in.
He treats his failures simply as practice shots. ~ Charles F. Kettering

" A happy man is one who loads his own slugs and burn's powder at the range" - Super Blazing Sabots!

"Be the change that you wish to see in the world."
- Mahatma Gandhi

Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl[/url]
http://slugshooting.accountsupport.com/[/url] ... wforum.php
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr[/url] ... ot!/page1
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...f=118&t=196961[/url]
http://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/fo...p?f=43&t=39246[/url]
http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/slug-gu...old-is-gold-!/[/url]
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.
Location: New Jersey. USA / Frankfort, W.Germany / London, UK
-Elite Group of Slug Shooter's
We all, who take slug loading seriously are a dedicated family, who have taken it upon ourselves to perfect our tech. We experiment to find better techniques and share our knowledge.

longbow
10-29-2013, 07:31 PM
Ajay:

I have posted pictures of all the slugs and balls in the past so didn't bother in this thread. had I been successful i might have posted some bragging targets and the wonderful combinations that got me there. That will have to wait for another day!

I do have 10 each cast and ready to go of:

- my old TC sub-bore "Brenneke" with glue skirt/attached wad ~ these gave quite good results in the past so will be my "control" slug
- Lee Drive Key slugs with glue skirts/attached wads
- my new TC slug with glue skirt/attached wad

And if I can find a hard card or other hard filler to fit into the Uniwads Hogtamer sent (20 ga. nitro cards might fit but I don't have any) I will shoot some more of those too. I am sure that wad failure was due to the ball setting back making fit too tight to bore with tapered petals.

I hope to get range time shortly to test these out.

Longbow