Noe 358429

[Love Life]

My Lee 6 cavity 358429 is warped and get fins on the bases. I am looking to upgrade to the NOE 358429.

My question: Will this bullet, in 357 magnum brass, crimped in the crimp groove, fit in a N-Frame (Highway Patrolman) cylinder?

The drawing shows .351 for length from the base of the top driving band to the meplat, which should be safe, but can anybody confirm they'll fit in the N-Frames in 357 magnum brass?

[bhn22]

It's been a while since I had an N frame .357, but unless NOEs bullet nose is much shorter than Lymans version, your loaded cartridge will be too long for an N frame. You would need to reduce your powder charge slightly and crimp the case over the forward driving band to use that bullet in 357 cases in that gun. This is the situation that made the 358156 Lyman so popular.

[Love Life]

Thank you for the info. I thought there had been a couple of renditions of the classic 358429 done where the nose was shortened to allow it's use in the N-frames without having to crimp over the shoulder or trim the cases back.

Am I the last man on earth shooting an N-frame 357 Magnum? :bigsmyl2:

Looks like I'll be sticking to the 38-44 heavy duty loads...

[Beagle333]

I got the NOE, and mine are running .355-.356 from base of the top driving band to the tip of nose. But these are powdercoated.... I tried to get as close as I could measure. I don't have any raw ones right now.
My Ideal is .383 for that same length. The NOE is quite a bit shorter.

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/keith011_zps00192d96.jpg

[GabbyM]

My NOE mold is a solid nose as opposed to a hollow point. Perhaps that makes a difference. Mine measure .377" nose length which includes front drive band of .100" length.

[Love Life]

Have any of ya'll loaded one in 357 magnum brass and stuffed it in a N-Frame revolver?

[Beagle333]

No, but I shoot em in my GP-100, which has a cylinder that measures 1.610 :cool:

[Love Life]

I see. No GP-100 around here. N-Frames all the way!!

[Murphy]

Love Life,

I've had several variants of the Lyman #358429 down through the years. I'm also an N frame owner/shooter. A couple of Model 27's & 28's.

None, of the standard offerings for the Lyman #358429 can be crimped in the crimp groove and fit into an N frame cylinder. Keith designed the boolit long enough for the front driving band to rest in the throats of the cylinder. He did this to help center the round in the chamber better. Alas, this was using a .38 Special cylinder. Why S&W did not lengthen the cylinder's on N frames is something someone better informed than I will have to answer.

While the boolit can be seated deep enough and crimped on the front driving band to fit in an N frame, I just prefer not to. Many, seat this boolit in .357 Magnum brass with the front driving band even, or slightly lower and crimp over the top of it. Not a practice I'm thrilled about, but it can and does work. You will want to work up your load very slowly if you attempt this.

Best of luck,

Murphy

[Love Life]

Thank you Murphy. I'll just stick to loading it in 38 special brass as I have always done. I do still need a new mould though...

Thank You,
Dick

[codgerville@zianet.com]

Murph, you are right on. My first 357 was a 28, I had a 358429 mold I'd been using for 38, so I promptly loaded some in 357, loaded the cylinder, AND got a surprise! Never tried the deeper seating, just don't like doing that. BTW, the place where I was born is underneath Pine Creek Lake.

[rintinglen]

Well, despite his later attempts to insert himself into picture, the reality is that when Major Wesson and Phil Sharpe were designing the .357, they used a Sharpe-designed boolit, not the 358-429 designed by Elmer Keith. Bear in mind that when the .357 was being developed, the 358-429 was only 4 or 5 years old and had not had the benefit of 50 years of advertising. Phil Sharpe, who was a supremely knowledgeable gun guy, was not blessed with as many years as Elmer and so has been somewhat forgotten. But he forgot more about reloading than Elmer ever knew and was a much more eminent person in the gun community in the 1930's than a certain Idaho cowboy whose fame was to come 20 years later and was to last for another 20 years after the death of Mr. Sharpe. Phil Sharpe had a heart attack in the mid 50's and his writing pretty much came to a halt as he concentrated on his firearms importing business. A second heart attack put paid to his interesting life in the early 60's.

However, his Books on the American Rifle and "The Complete Book of Handloading" are still of interest. He was one of the People responsible for the interest in 7mm Magnums, with his co-creation and championship of the 7 x 61 Sharpe and Hart, and wrote many aricles in the 30's, 40's and 50's on shooting related topics.

[runfiverun]

Richard the 358477 might be close-nuff.
it has a fairly short nose but similar shape and is super accurate in my 35 cal revolvers.
the only issue is lyman likes to change the design, I have 2 iterations and have seen a couple of others.

[Echo]

Lee also has a nice little GCSWC that I have used for decades.

[fecmech]

Many, seat this boolit in .357 Magnum brass with the front driving band even, or slightly lower and crimp over the top of it. Not a practice I'm thrilled about, but it can and does work. You will want to work up your load very slowly if you attempt this.

Just for your information the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook third addition data for .358429 is with the bullet crimped over the front drive band.

[GabbyM]

Just for your information the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook third addition data for .358429 is with the bullet crimped over the front drive band.

My NOE as I stated above has a .377" nose. Add that to the 357 mag case length of 1.290" and you get a C.O.L. of 1.667".
Which is way over my Colt's 1.607" cylinder length measured over a case head. My 3rd edition list the COL at 1.553". So yes fecmech I'd say that length must be crimped over the front band. Which negates the idea of band fitting into the cylinder throat.
For full power 357 mag ammo, which is a very seldom used item around here, I use a #354 Saeco 180gr RNFP-GC. Probably not a dimes difference between that and the 358429 except I can identify the rounds coming out of my pocket.

If I were to load the 359429 in mag brass I'd use my 9mm taper crimp die and just lightly crimp to cylinder length minus about .030" then go with it. That would place a little bit of the front band up in the throat the way Elmer intended. IMHO a taper crimp die swaging the case mouth into the bullet to form an absolutely tight crimp grove is more secure than folding the brass into an air gap. Never had any issue with 45 acp or 9mm ammo with taper crimp.

Anyone interested in a grossly undersized Lyman 358429. I have one in two cavity. Brand new only used once to test.

[hamour]

My question: Will this bullet, in 357 magnum brass, crimped in the crimp groove, fit in a N-Frame (Highway Patrolman) cylinder?

The drawing shows .351 for length from the base of the top driving band to the meplat, which should be safe, but can anybody confirm they'll fit in the N-Frames in 357 magnum brass?

I will confirm it is too long for the N frames using 357 mag brass. I just use 2400 and 38 special brass. Works like a champ.

[Love Life]

Thank you Hamour!!!

I'll stick to doing what I was doing, which is using stout charges of Unique and 2400 in 38 special brass.

Also, thank you everybody for the history of the bullet. It is pretty cool.

[fecmech]

If I were to load the 359429 in mag brass I'd use my 9mm taper crimp die
That is essentially what I do with that bullet only I use a .38 spl taper crimp die on the front drive band for an oal of 1.638. That gives me about .010" clearance in my Ruger GP and gets the front band started into the throat.

[GP100man]

Trim the brass back enuff to crimp in the groove & give ya breathin room at the cyl.

Did this for my cuz , he notched the rims to keep the brass together.

LoveLife if you`ll post the length of your cyl I can measure the cartridge as I just loaded someNOEs 358429s in 1.280 brass.