.38 Super Loads for Lee 153 grain cast boolit

[lental]

Years ago when I first started reloading I bought a Lee 153 g LRN mold for my Llama Extra .38/9mm but I've never been able to find a load that really gives me the accuracy I think I ought to have. I've also had to load light because the Llama is really not designed for .38 Super but rather 9mm Largo/.38 ACP. The .38 Super round is identical to .38 ACP except that the .38 Super is loaded to higher pressures. As a result, I've had to keep the loads in the range of the 9mm Largo which is the low end of .38 Super.

I am now about to retire the Llama and have a RIA .38 Super enroute. With a real .38 Super, I can kick up the loads to full .38 Super specs but there's virtually no data on the 153 grain Lee boolit...not even in Modern Reloading. Further, Lee no longer makes this mold...they say because of lack of demand.

I've worked up loads for a Lee 125 grain LRN that I'm very satisfied with and will use those loads when I start firing the new pistol. But I understand that the .38 Super was designed to provide the same impact as a .45 with less recoil. If that's the case, it wuld seem that the heavier boolit would be appropriate to meet that objective.

I wonder if anyone here has any experience with this boolit and would have any recomended loads.

Len

[oso]

My Lee 356-153-2R casts 156 gr with my alloy (same as my Lyman 356637.) Where have you looked for data? Both editions of Lee's Modern Reloading as well as older Hodgdon and Accurate data dumps have 38 Super loads for 158-160 gr lead round nose boolits (current online data tops out at 147-150gr. LR, still useful.) Don't forget Castpics load data - it has heavy boolit 38 Super loads.
Personally I prefer subsonic loads with this boolit in both 9mm and 38 Sup using W540 (HS6 close enough) and Scot 453. Best heavy load (1025 fps) I found was with 9+ gr of my 8 pound lot of pulled down WC 820 at 1.27" col (compare this with Accurate No. 9 data for 158 JHP at 1.25" col 8.7 gr for 1031 fps to 9.7 gr for 1121 fps.)

[lental]

oso -- Thanks for the response.

I've checked out all of the load data for 158-160 grain boolits as well as for 147-150 and that's what I used to work up the loads I've been using. I'm getting my best accuracy with a 125 g boolit using 4.7 g W231 and 3.2 g of Bullseye. Interestingly, with the 153 g (actual cast weight 155 g with Lyman #2) boolit, best accuracy is also with 4.7 g of W231 at 1059 fps but it's not nearly as good as the accuracy of the 125 g bullet at 1285 fps and the extreme spread is much greater (2in. at 50 feet). I can't rule out recoil as being a factor since I'm shooting offhand rather than at a rest.

Clearly, I have enough of my own data to continue working up loads for the new pistol and I do expect an improvement in accuracy since the Llama is almost 100 years old and the RIA is current production with a good reputation.

Interestingly, I had just about given up on the 153 g boolit because after firing 6 test strings of various loads with various results, I popped in a clip of commercial Fiocchi with a 129 g jacketed bullet and proceeded to fire 10 shots into a 2-in. circle at 50 feet. I have never been able to fire the Llama with that kind of accuracy before or since using the same Fiocchi ammo. I think it may have been a fluke due in part to dropping to a much lighter load after firing so many strings with the heavy bullet. I have no idea what powder Fiocchi uses but after I got home, I took one of the Fiocchi bullets apart and the powder weighed 4.7 grains...exactly the same weight as my most accurate load with W231. While the powder was similar to W231 in appearance, it was different enough to know that it was a different powder. Unfortunately. I had already put my chronograph up when I fired the Fiocchi so I don't have any idea what the MV was. But after that, I concentrated on working up loads for the Lee 125 grain boolit and dropped the focus on the 153 grain boolit.

I'm not really terribly interested in high muzzle velocities but rather dependable accuracy. I was kinda hoping I might find someone here who might be using the 153 g bullet with either Bullseye or W231 and had come up with some really accurate loads. I want to keep my focus on those two powders because I have a whole lot of Bullseye on hand along with a reasonable supply of W231. I prefer the W231 because it measures more consistently than Bullseye and burns way cleaner. But, since I've got so much Bullseye, I need to find some good accurate loads with it as well.

Thanks again for the response. Maybe there's someone else out there with experience with this bullet in .38 Super loads.

[geargnasher]

5.7 grains of Power Pistol under the 358-150-1R, air-cooled wheel weights, and Felix lube.

Gear

[oso]

Something else to consider is col. My wife shoots a Witness Poly Compact and I shoot a Witness Full Size in 38 Super and found 1.27" col ideal. Check you RIA chamber for max col with the Lee 356-152-2R and see what your gun prefers - don't forget to reduce max loads as col decreases. Also check the boolit diameter, fortunately my mold casts larger than .356" . My wife has pinched nerves in her neck causing hand weakness and I have arthritis in my hands which may be why we do better with no more than 4.0 grains of HP38/W231 (like 3.6 - 3.8 gr.)

[lental]

OSO -- Thanks for the tips. Those were some things I hadn't thought about. Probably the first thing I'll do with the new pistol is slug the barrel. I did that years ago for the Llama and found it wanted bullets that were .355 in diameter so I've sized all my casts to that diameter. I've got close to 400 of the 153g already cast along with about 500 of the 125g waiting to be loaded. I'll also check the COL. Standard length of 1.290 worked great in the Llama which is about as close as you can get to a 1911 without actually being a duplicate. I understand the RIA is a duplicate so the standard round should fit. But we'll see. It's been shipped and should be here Tuesday.

Gear -- Thanks for that load. I'll keep Power Pistol in mind as I work down the Bullseye and W231. A lot of people seem to like Power Pistol.