1966, and 1970 Reloading Manuals Do Not Even Lst the .45-70

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Checking for round ball loads in the .45-70 for Irishtoo I went through some old reloading manuals. Personally I use the Speer and Lyman. The Speer #7 from 1966 does not even list the .45-70, neither does the #8 dated 1970. Wasn't anybody reloading the .45-70 back then? Odd when the picture on the cover of the #8 is of a man shooting a Winchester Model 66 from the top of an Overland stagecoach. I wished I could have taken advantage of that time, I'll bet a Trapdoor could be had for a fraction of the price we pay now. Not to mention perhaps a Sharps. Then again there was no internet so shopping for guns involved driving to and going into the gun stores and pawn shops. A practice I still engage in.

My Uncle's Ideal Hand Book dated 1949 does list the .45-70, and the .25/20 W.C.F., .25-35 Winchester, .32-20, .32-40, .38-40 W.C.F. rifle and .38-55. Plus the .45-90. Those must have been great days. My Uncle used the .30-40 Krag in the Army and had a Winchester pre-'64 Model 70 Featherweight in .270 that is still used by the family for deer hunting. My Uncle refused to mount glass optics on his bolt gun.

[JMtoolman]

I was shooting a Remington rolling block back then and there was no 45/70 brass anywhere. I would buy old blackpowder rounds two or three at a time at gun shows. I would pull the bullets, dig out the balckpowder, and deprime the cases. Then reload them without mercuric primers. Shot many thousands of them, including folded head cases. I retired the old cases a number of years ago when the new brass came out. I think I still have a number of the old cases somewhere, had a lot of different head stamps on them. The toolman.

[M-Tecs]

If the company didn’t make bullets of that caliber they didn’t list it. I started reloading 45/70 in 1969 for a reenactment club. I still have boxes of Winchester unprimed 45/70 brass with the retail price tag on them from Scheels Hardware. I can read the date but the price is too faded to read. We had no problem finding info or components. By 1972 the club had about 2,000 pieces of 45/70 brass. The club owned the brass and I cast the bullets and reloaded it the brass. I do remember purchasing a couple of boxes of WW 45-70 405 soft point jacketed in about 72 or 73 to shoot in a H&R trapdoor that I couldn’t get to shoot with cast bullets. I purchased them from the local Coast to Coast Hardware store so the lack of 45/70 might have been a regional thing.

The 1958 Handbook of Cast Bullets by the Lyman Gun Sight Corporation, The Lyman 42’nd edition 1960, The Lyman 43’rd edition 1964, The Lyman 45’th edition 1970,and the Hornady Handbook of cartridge reloading 1973 all contain 45/70 info. None of the old Speer books have any 45 caliber rifle info since they did not make 45 cal rifle bullets at the time.

[Don McDowell]

Speer didn't make 45 caliber bullets at that time so no they didn't list any 45-70 data.Altho if you look closer at that #7 manual there's a good chapter by George Nonte on making the old timers shoot. The only 45 colt and acp data they listed was with cast bullets....
Lyman/Ideal manuals have always carried 45-70 data. Round ball data really isn't anything that is likely to be found in a manual, more of something a gunwriter would of maybe tried and wrote about in an article somewhere. There might possibly be some mention of it in the older Cartridges of the World editions.

[bigted]

well just happens that I been reading my old "Ideal handbook" # 38. in this old manual it has a load for a # 457129 round ball load of 5 grains of #6 pistol powder in the 45-70 section. it caught my attention as the "collar button" boolit weighs only 144 grains and the round ball is 146 grains. the collar button is loaded with 5 grains of unique so I would guess that the unique and #6 pistol powder to be pretty close to each other ... does this sound rite?

so back in 1951 when the #38 handbook came out they not only had the 45-70 but round ball loads for it as well.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Bigted, carry that previous post over to Irishtoo's post about round ball loads in the .45-70. Irishtoo's post was what got me started looking at my old loading manuals.

Irishtoo' are you seeing Bigted's post here?

[EDG]

Lyman listed data back then and so did Hornady. Hornday made 45 cal bullets then.
Dupont also listed data since Remington was part of Dupont and Remington made 45 cal bullets.
My old Hodgdon manual and my Lee first edition booklet had 45-70 data also.

[oscarflytyer]

Ken Waters Pet Loads comprehensive book...

[The Goose]

I remember as a kid in the 50's that there were lots of old trapdoors floating around. Almost everyone we knew had one, but they were hanging over fireplaces or leaning in corners. I cannot remember anyone ever shooting one. They were considered antiques and that was about it. Of course it was rural New England and where I lived no one shot, they hunted. Seemed like most old timers expected to get 2 squirrels with one round of .22 and they were never so frivolous as to just shoot at a target for fun.

[Clay M]

I got my first .45/70 in 72 when Marlin brought it back out in their 95.I have an old Lyman cast bullet Manuel from back in the 60's It list the .45/70 and the .405 win

[Ed in North Texas]

I remember as a kid in the 50's that there were lots of old trapdoors floating around. Almost everyone we knew had one, but they were hanging over fireplaces or leaning in corners. I cannot remember anyone ever shooting one. They were considered antiques and that was about it. Of course it was rural New England and where I lived no one shot, they hunted. Seemed like most old timers expected to get 2 squirrels with one round of .22 and they were never so frivolous as to just shoot at a target for fun.

Knew a kid from New Hampshire in the Army back in '63. He said he hunted with a Trapdoor - but he was a bit peculiar.

[irishtoo]

yea, i read it. i loaded 10 rounds with 40 grs of 3f goex pushed a 1/2"fiber wad down tight to the powder, used a .445 ball with linen patch(.0130) and filled the remaining space with hot lube. 50/50 beeswax and olive oil. 40 grs was a guess. i am going to the range in the morning and see what happens. i loaded them as i would load a flintlock. irishtoo

[ironhead7544]

There was quite a big gap in time on 45-70 rifles. Marlin brought out the 444 Marlin to try to bring back interest in the big lever guns. Then came out with the 45-70. I remember seeing 55 gal barrels full of trap doors and Civil War muskets back then. A lot of the collector items today were just old junk guns back then.

Those manuals also listed some hot loads for various calibers.

[bigted]

Ironhead ... aint it the truth. my first centerfire rifle was from one of those barrels ... altho ... these barrels contained '98' Argentine military mousers [makes me sick rememberin] and had I known what I know today ... I would have bought the whole barrel full at the 15 dollars per ... plus whatever was in the back room of that Coast to Coast store. that 7mm was a hoot and the first thing I did to it was to take a hacksaw from my grandfathers shop and CUSTOMIZE it ... oh my what ignorance.

well everybody had to be a wet behind the ears kid once huh?

I don't recall any trapdoors over on the Oregon coast but they may have been there ... I didn't get to town often as I was stuck on the dairy farm milkin those nasty cows morning and night ... hayin thru the day ... made for a short nite ill say.

[EDG]

Speer did not manufacture a bullet for the 45-70 back then so they had no reason to provide loading data.


Checking for round ball loads in the .45-70 for Irishtoo I went through some old reloading manuals. Personally I use the Speer and Lyman. The Speer #7 from 1966 does not even list the .45-70, neither does the #8 dated 1970. Wasn't anybody reloading the .45-70 back then? Odd when the picture on the cover of the #8 is of a man shooting a Winchester Model 66 from the top of an Overland stagecoach. I wished I could have taken advantage of that time, I'll bet a Trapdoor could be had for a fraction of the price we pay now. Not to mention perhaps a Sharps. Then again there was no internet so shopping for guns involved driving to and going into the gun stores and pawn shops. A practice I still engage in.

My Uncle's Ideal Hand Book dated 1949 does list the .45-70, and the .25/20 W.C.F., .25-35 Winchester, .32-20, .32-40, .38-40 W.C.F. rifle and .38-55. Plus the .45-90. Those must have been great days. My Uncle used the .30-40 Krag in the Army and had a Winchester pre-'64 Model 70 Featherweight in .270 that is still used by the family for deer hunting. My Uncle refused to mount glass optics on his bolt gun.