morons here in kali banned hunting with lead

[bruce381]

so the morons here in kali banned hunting with lead any info on bismuth/tin alloys?
do they work like lead tin alloys?

[Defcon-One]

I don't think it will work for casting. Worse yet, and your gonna love this, I think there are health issues with melting and handling Bismuth! Hopefully, someone who knows for sure can let us know if I am right.

[cbrick]

Dunno nuthin bout bismuth but I do know one thing for sure . . . I am delighted I escaped and moved back to America. I just recently bought my lifetime combined hunting/fishing license. Cost? $35.00. Yes we use lead projectiles.

Rick

[bruce381]

I think bismuth is non or not as toxic as lead , melts at 550F or so BUT how hard is it and does if fill out a mold?

[JesterGrin_1]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-63144.html

[shaper]

Dunno nuthin bout bismuth but I do know one thing for sure . . . I am delighted I escaped and moved back to America. I just recently bought my lifetime combined hunting/fishing license. Cost? $35.00. Yes we use lead projectiles.

Rick
So now you live in Kalifornia or did you just forget to change the location under your name?

[cbrick]

So now you live in Kalifornia or did you just forget to change the location under your name?

Read the entire thing not just the first word. [smilie=s:

Rick

[Garyshome]

I guess we need to try Oak boolits. They might be a little light but they might hold together.

[brassrat]

No you can't use oak because it feels pain and would cry and scare the game away. :razz:

[Stephen Cohen]

With the bans you guys have with lead, what will muzzle loaders use. I cant think of anything that would work well.

[Lance Boyle]

I don't know their laws but I suppose you could use a saboted non lead pistol bullet. Some states of course don't allow that. We used to be restricted to a patched round ball. Now just about anything goes as long as it goes in from the front and the gun is a single shot.

[Baja_Traveler]

Here's the problem for us casters - nothing lead free we can produce will qualify under Moon Beam's law. The catch is that whatever alloy you come up with will have to be certified by the State - at a cost close to a grand. And that certification then carried with you when the gestapo checks out in the field.
As it is when stopped in the current lead free zone, things go much smoother if you have the box top from the lead free bullets with you to show.

[shaper]

Has anyone concidered using aluminum for a replacement of lead. Melting point is 1,221 deg. f. There are some videos on U tube of people melting aluminum. It is already in some projectiles, and just think of the side advantages, no more beer cans in the ditches along the road sides.

[freebullet]

I still don't understand how anyone whom lawfully owns a gun can live there. If they all moved the state would collapse quickly.

[woody13]

God I want to move so bad now. Four more years till I can then I'm gone.

[JesterGrin_1]

You could make a big core out of tungsten carbide in the center of the aluminum boolit with a gas check. Just make sure nothing is behind what you are shooing at as it will keep going and going and going lol.

[bruce381]

Try not to ver off here

Yeah i know Kali sucks, yeah i should move, yeah they make sabots thats not what i wanted to know.

Has anyone used or worked with bismuth?
How do bismuth alloys cast?

or how it shoots?

[destrux]

What about zinc? There are already people here who cast zinc boolits. Wayyyy cheaper than bismuth and zinc is about as "green" as you can get.

Kalifornistan was a big force behind the push to go from cad plating to zinc plating in automotive hardware (which is why newer cars have seized and rusted bolts after 5 years instead of 15 years in the rust belt states because cad plating is lightyears better than zinc). So they should have no issue with zinc, and it's pretty easy to prove in the field that it's not lead since it's harder than sin.

[BoolitBullet]

What about zinc?

It is my understanding that zinc is too light to make an effective hunting round.

[ammohead]

I saw today that Rotometals has a bismuth/tin casting alloy for bullets. You better sit down...$19.95 a pound!

[grampa243]

I saw today that Rotometals has a bismuth/tin casting alloy for bullets. You better sit down...$19.95 a pound!

better then the price of Gilding Metal bullets.

[Four-Sixty]

Sounds like you need to learn how to electoplate your cast lead with copper, and find a box of "lead free" bullets to keep them in.

[Bullshop Junior]

Dunno nuthin bout bismuth but I do know one thing for sure . . . I am delighted I escaped and moved back to America. I just recently bought my lifetime combined hunting/fishing license. Cost? $35.00. Yes we use lead projectiles.

Rick

Where the heck was that? I just go my hunting/trapping license till the end of this year and it was 38 bucks here in Alaska.

[Bullshop Junior]

Sounds like you need to learn how to electoplate your cast lead with copper, and find a box of "lead free" bullets to keep them in.

You would have to get a boolit that matched the box incase the warden read anything more than the lead free badge.

[cbrick]

Where the heck was that? I just go my hunting/trapping license till the end of this year and it was 38 bucks here in Alaska.

Arkansas! In the year you turn 65 a combined lifetime hunting/fishing license is $35.00. Sweet huh? I'm good right up until I no longer need it. If your not yet an old guy you can still get the lifetime license but it's $1,000.00.

Rick

[cbrick]

Sounds like you need to learn how to electoplate your cast lead with copper, and find a box of "lead free" bullets to keep them in.

Escaping sounds like a much better plan. Leave La La land for those that are firmly convinced everybody else in the country owes them a living and gubment is the only possible answer to . . . . . Everything.

Rick

[Bullshop Junior]

Arkansas! In the year you turn 65 a combined lifetime hunting/fishing license is $35.00. Sweet huh? I'm good right up until I no longer need it. If your not yet an old guy you can still get the lifetime license but it's $1,000.00.

Rick

Alaska May have a deal like that now that I think of it. I'm 20 so am not old enough to qualify

I think the deal here is 25 year resident you get free hunting/fishing/trapping and over 65 is free but I havnt looked in the books for awhile. I've only been here for 10 years so no reason to worry about that yet.

[sargenv]

Um... Bismuth is that stuff that's contained in "Pepto-Bismol".. it is non toxic...It was used for several years as Bismuth-no-tox shot and is nearly as heavy as lead.. As I recall, it is an expensive material to form into pellets..

Ballistic Products has something they call ITX that they have formed into sabot'ed muzzle loader bullets.. it isn't cheap, but it is non toxic and likely passes the test for non toxic.. Pricey though.. 8 for $19.99 and only for .50 cal smokepoles.

[Iowa Fox]

Dunno nuthin bout bismuth but I do know one thing for sure . . . I am delighted I escaped and moved back to America. I just recently bought my lifetime combined hunting/fishing license. Cost? $35.00. Yes we use lead projectiles.

Rick


Next your going to tell me property taxes are cheap there also.

[Whiterabbit]

Bruce, not that easy.

The biggest crime is the law is written that APPROVED bullets are the only ones that are legal. So go ahead and use zinc bismuth tungsten depleted uranium, it's not approved, so it's not legal. And if you aren't legal, you may as well use lead. So being lead free is NOT ENOUGH IN CALIFORNIA.

I haven't tried tin or bismuth casting due to the cost of metal, but I have zinc cast. it works just fine, and from a shooting perspective, it's an option. The bullets come out at warp ridiculous. I don't know about terminal performance though. I am not hopeful about that.

I'm still trying to figure out how to shoot brass roundballs from my flinter. I'm thinking beadblasted or sandblasted so they grip the patch.

Baja beat me to this punch in post #12.

[Whiterabbit]

oh, and heard a talk by the GOC ... president? was it? lobbyist? Sacramento guy for GOC. They aren't gonna fight it. The law is water tight. we're stuck with it forever. Right next to the ban on BMG rifles, the condor lead free zone, ban on supressors and SBR's, and the defacto ban on concealed carry in most counties.

[Prospector Howard]

Boy, they just keep kicking you in the nads in Kommifornia. If I understand this correctly, it's a ban just on hunting ammo and not on lead in target ammo? I think Barnes is going to be making some extra money on this. I do have to admit that their hunting bullets look impressive. I think if I lived in that ridiculous state, I'd be looking into Barnes bullets and maybe even stocking up just for hunting and shoot the lead stuff for target shooting. You are going to spend more for copper bullets, but if you use them just for hunting; you probably won't go broke. I'll tell you one thing, I've already boycotted Kommifornia because of the anti gunners there. I used to go to San Diego every summer. No more, won't spend my money in that place anymore. If enough people boycott the place, it'll hurt their tourism industry, and maybe things would change?

[Whiterabbit]

Their hunting bullets are GREAT, and I use them for certain rifles. But it riles me up to no end that they took away my choice to use non barnes in other rifles (like my flintlock). I should be free to choose the projectile I think is going to do the job best.

But not spending the money is NOT the way to foment change. Here's the plan:

DNR is controlled by hunters, that's where the money is. So the department focusses on that.

Step 1: get as many HSUS reps on the board as possible. Get as many environmentalists on the board as possible.
Step 2: ban lead statewide, ban dog hunting, increase regulation, harass hunters on public lands, do as much as possible to discourage hunting. If it's not legal, just don't get caught.
Step 3: fewer hunters, fewer hunting monies goes to DFG.
Step 4: Needing money, DNR accepts more moneies from Sierra club and HSUS.
Step 5: Now an organization of HSUS, DNR submits policy according to that org's wishes. Hunting is banned entirely in CA.

And that is where they are going.

Ste 6: True sportsman wont want to take it lying down. Complaints, letters to the gov, letters to the DNR, rallys, makes no difference. The DNR, and EVERY gov org in existence, will always recognize who butters their bread and act accordingly. They will say they get their money from HSUS now and conform to their standards.

[TreeKiller]

Their hunting bullets are GREAT, and I use them for certain rifles. But it riles me up to no end that they took away my choice to use non barnes in other rifles (like my flintlock). I should be free to choose the projectile I think is going to do the job best.

But not spending the money is NOT the way to foment change. Here's the plan:

DNR is controlled by hunters, that's where the money is. So the department focusses on that.

Step 1: get as many HSUS reps on the board as possible. Get as many environmentalists on the board as possible.
Step 2: ban lead statewide, ban dog hunting, increase regulation, harass hunters on public lands, do as much as possible to discourage hunting. If it's not legal, just don't get caught.
Step 3: fewer hunters, fewer hunting monies goes to DFG.
Step 4: Needing money, DNR accepts more moneies from Sierra club and HSUS.
Step 5: Now an organization of HSUS, DNR submits policy according to that org's wishes. Hunting is banned entirely in CA.

And that is where they are going.

Ste 6: True sportsman wont want to take it lying down. Complaints, letters to the gov, letters to the DNR, rallys, makes no difference. The DNR, and EVERY gov org in existence, will always recognize who butters their bread and act accordingly. They will say they get their money from HSUS now and conform to their standards.

Well said +1

[Duckiller]

Barnes, Hornady and Nosler make all copper bullets that are approved for hunting in Condor Country. I seriously doubt if the State will ever approve any cast boolit of any material for hunting in California. Some calibers may truely become oboslete. Barnes bullets were more than $1.00 each several years ago higher now.

[dg31872]

What are you guys going to do with your 22LR rifles?

[Duckiller]

CCI loads lead free bullets in 22 Win Mag. For a price I am sure they will load 22LR. Just no cheap 22 hunting ammo. Or F&W could declare lead free is not practical and declare law void. I am not holding my breath.

[Whiterabbit]

the board would vote the prez out immediately, and put in an HSUS puppet in the same day.

[bjeffv]

Yet another additional cost passed on to lawful gun owners and hunters.