Rangefinder's PC Tumbler Method [Archive]

Rangefinder

10-16-2013, 06:53 PM

All right Guys (and girls??), I've been playing with this PC stuff a bit and have come up with my own variation of the PIGLET method that is both fast and consistent. I use my tumbler. Here's the step-by-step, as requested.

As mentioned in the Piglet method, Lacquer Thinner is working best for me--not Acetone. I'm using the separator bowl of my tumbler, but you can use the large bowl just as well--either will work.

As-dropped Lee TL-401-175's from my 6-cav... There's probably about 70 or so there that I threw real quick for the purposes of this. I've done about 200 at a time with perfect results.
84498

Pour about a 1/4 cup Thinner in the tumbler, add the boolits, and turn it on. In a couple minutes they'll be nice and clean. Special note though, Thinner WILL splatter a little. Keep heat sources away. Using a small scoop (I use a Lee .3cc dipper, start sprinkling the 'soup' with PC powder. Add just a little at a time and give things a little jostle between scoops to make sure it spreads evenly. For this batch I used 6 scoops--or just under 2cc of PC paint total.
84499

When everything is coated evenly but there's still enough Thinner in the bottom of the bowel to see a slight puddle in the shake, I add a tiny sprinkle of graphite powder.
84500

Let things run for about a minute with the graphite to embed, then dump the soup out onto a baking sheet lined with foil.
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There should still be a little thinner that pours out with the coated boolits. With a little thinner on your fingers, you can stand them up without making a mess of yourself or leaving prints all over the tacky boolits. Once on end, either let them dry for a while or do what I do--spark 'em to burn off the excess thinner.
84502

At this point, they're ready to slide in the oven. Bake 'em at the prescribed temp and time for your PC. When the 'ding' happens, pull them out, let 'em cool, and peel 'em off the foil. They're ready to size and load. Here's what this batch turned out to look like.
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And here's the bases once they're peeled off the foil.
84504

From the time I fired up the pot to cast this lot till the time I snapped the photo of the base was just over an hour. Realistically, you could go from ingot to shooting in a little over 2 hours on a small lot. Tough to complain about that. Gimme a day or so and I'll show you accuracy differences between my former LLA and the current PC method. It's down-right scary.

Beagle333

10-16-2013, 07:11 PM

Splendid!!!! Thanks for the tutorial.... now out to the yard to test it! :cbpour:

fastglock

10-16-2013, 07:37 PM

Thank you! !!

Now it's time to try :bigsmyl2:

Rangefinder

10-17-2013, 05:48 PM

As promised, here is some accuracy tests. The photo shows 4 targets--the bottom are targets from when I first started PC'ing against my old TL. Top is today. Left is LLA, right is PC'd. Two different tests at different times. I think I know what my new standard is. ;)

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EDIT--This is 20 yards, two-hand grip 40S&W 175gr SWC Identical loads.

Smoke4320

10-17-2013, 05:57 PM

Thanks for the write up .. I will be trying this tonight

rhadamanthos12

10-20-2013, 09:03 AM

What purpose does the graphite serve? I don't have any on hand but have all the other products to give this a shot, what do you believe the outcome would be if you omitted the step with graphite?

fishnbob

10-20-2013, 09:32 AM

Why not size before powder coating? Doesn't sizing take the coating off?

375RUGER

10-20-2013, 10:30 AM

Is that foil shiny side up or down?:kidding:

mdi

10-20-2013, 12:13 PM

Thanks Rangefinder. To show where my mind was this morning; I read the thread title and thought "what the h@!! is politically correct tumble lube!"...

Rangefinder

10-20-2013, 12:30 PM

What purpose does the graphite serve? I don't have any on hand but have all the other products to give this a shot, what do you believe the outcome would be if you omitted the step with graphite?

I have no doubt you'll be just fine without it. I've done it both ways, and haven't really given it a serious test. What I did notice was those with the graphite had a nice, slightly darker sheen after sizing that does NOT rub off, so it would appear the added graphite is giving the coating one more slippery barrier between lead and bore. I finally gave my barrel a chore-boy scrub yesterday and barely had even a smudge to remove--not even much in the way of carbon. The round count by that point was somewhere over 2K.

Why not size before powder coating? Doesn't sizing take the coating off?

Sizing does NOT remove the coating after heat curing--if it did it wouldn't work for boolit coating. But sizing before is unnecessary because the PC paint adds to the diameter just a little, and final sizing uniforms everything up.

Is that foil shiny side up or down?
Funny as it is, I seem to always go with shiny side up. *shrug* OCD? Probably.... :D

Beagle333

10-20-2013, 09:36 PM

My foil says "Reynolds Wrap - Non Stick Side" on the suggested use side, and incidentally, it is not the shiny side. You got the cheap stuff! :mrgreen:

Rangefinder

10-21-2013, 09:18 AM

Awe man... you're next going to tell me you read the parts diagram before assembly too, aren't you? Traitor ... LOL...

strahd_zarovich

10-21-2013, 10:34 AM

This was well written and hopefully I can follow it. I am trying to remove some pre-lubed boolits and then PC them. I just want to check it out.

strahd_zarovich

10-21-2013, 07:52 PM

Rangefinder

10-21-2013, 09:41 PM

Filling the grooves isn't necessary with PC. Looks like you did get a fair coating over the rest of the boolit. Next--if you've already cooked 'em--you'll want to give those a wipe test with a rag and thinner to see if it's cured well (it's shouldn't come off on the rag) and give one a smash test--stand one on a hard surface and smack it with a hammer (cured well and adhered right, it shouldn't chip or flake off). HF paint seems to be more difficult to work with using this and the piglet method, black in particular. THAT being said, I'd say you made it cooperate pretty well.

Jaak

10-22-2013, 02:18 AM

What brand of PC paint are you using?

Rangefinder

10-22-2013, 07:07 AM

Honestly, couldn't tell you--I never asked what company it came from bulk.
Here's the two I get best results with of the four I have (also have his black which doesn't work worth squat) and a blue I picked up elsewhere that works good but has to go on thinner and slower.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GLOSS-BRIGHT-RED-POWDER-COAT-PAINT-3oz-NEW-FRESH-POWDER-JIG-LURE-/111019990433?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d94e9da1
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GLOSS-ORANGE-YELLOW-POWDER-COAT-PAINT-3oz-NEW-FRESH-POWDER-JIG-LURE-/111111821449?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19dec7d889

rhadamanthos12

10-22-2013, 03:29 PM

So I tested it without the graphite, I let the tumbler run till the boolits were completely dry to the touch. My first try with having some of the "soup" at the bottom left the boolits looking runny

here is letting it run till completely dry

85003

pouring early with some soup

85004

Rangefinder

10-22-2013, 04:25 PM

Those on top that ran until dry look really good! What I'm noticing is that the length of run is different with all the different PC paints we're all using. I got similar results to one of the posts in the other PC'ing thread (I think it was squibload's recent attempt with an improvised tumbler) where if it ran too long it would start taking the coating off the high areas and depositing it in the lower areas (losing from the drive bands and base where it's needed most). BUT, it looks like that isn't the case at all with your paint, and running till dry gives the necessary coverage. NICE WORK!

rhadamanthos12

10-22-2013, 05:07 PM

The powder im using is from prismatic powders, that color is flatter black. I have some HF yellow I could give it a shot with, the recipe im using is 2fl oz of lacquer thinner and 2.8cc of powder and tumble to till dry. I'm processing some 30cal rifle bullets right now. I will update again when I get a chance to test these out.

Garyshome

10-22-2013, 05:56 PM

rhadamanthos how many boolits? Great Rangefinder! Way to cut down on prep time, Do you have more than 1 tumbler? Will try out this method. I tumble boolits after casting, then swish in acetone than piglet'em [shake & bake]. Will try your method, seems you are getting some good results!

rhadamanthos12

10-23-2013, 12:07 PM

anywhere from 100-200 garyshome.

I came across another problem with softer alloys, I'm losing size due to shot peening on my larger softer bullets (400gr+). My guess if you are going to try this is that you will need a harder alloy (as my harder alloys turn out fine) with large bullets

SDGarrick

10-23-2013, 12:49 PM

do you all think this method would require a dedicated tumbler? or would cleaning with acetone/LT be enough to go back to tumbling brass?

rhadamanthos12

10-23-2013, 12:55 PM

I think you could get away with using one tumbler, the only place I have remaining powder is at the top of the bowl from splashing.

Rangefinder

10-23-2013, 03:35 PM

Should be just fine with one tumbler. BUT, you'll want to make sure it's cleaned very well between each change of use. As said, there's next to no PC paint left to be found after tumbling boolits, but I'd not want to get the polishing media dust from my brass tumbling mixed into the PC from tumbling brass. Nothing appealing about fire-lapping with every shot--bore life might not be so good. A quick rinse couple good wipes with a shop towel out to get all the media dust out just fine.

Just looked with a quick search and found a replacement bowl for my Lyman 1200 for $24--could probably find one cheaper if I tried. It's always an option, but not necessary.

Garyshome

10-23-2013, 04:06 PM

Might have to track down another tumbler!

rhadamanthos12

10-23-2013, 07:12 PM

my shrinking diameter seems to come from narrow driving bands, I had 68gr 225 bullets shrink to .218 on me. I will have to check the hardness of my bullets to see if that is a determining factor as well

rhad12

eljefeoz

10-23-2013, 07:28 PM

Good find Rangefinder.
I can get an used oven toaster for $ 25, but powder coating paint costs $10-14 per 25GRAMS as compared to $5 a POUND (!!) at harbor freight.Wonder what gives? or are we being charged the usual cut throat 'Australia tax' for being down under...[smilie=b:
Would putting the coating mix and CB in say, a small coke bottle, and then the tumbler, help in avoiding tumbler contamination?Asking, I dont have a tumbler...

Norbrat

10-23-2013, 08:54 PM

Good find Rangefinder.
I can get an used oven toaster for $ 25, but powder coating paint costs $10-14 per 25GRAMS as compared to $5 a POUND (!!) at harbor freight.Wonder what gives? or are we being charged the usual cut throat 'Australia tax' for being down under...[smilie=b:

Try asking at a local powder coaters for some powder; they'll probably be happy to give you a cup full for free.

eljefeoz

10-24-2013, 01:35 AM

Yup, just tracked one down.Thanks Norbrat

AlaskanGuy

10-24-2013, 10:59 AM

Rangefinder,

Thanks for posting this... I am gunna try this as i have a spare tumbler.... And my wife would look so cute with her pink 9mm loaded with hot pink boolits....... They would go well, with her hot pink bow, hot pink arrows, and plus it would be cool to be able to actually find some of her boolits and see how the pink coating holds up..... I was thinking about using this stuff:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Neon-Pink-Powder-Coating-Powder-Coat-Paint-NEW-1LB-/231063785149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35cc798ebd

Think this would work??

Ag

popper

10-24-2013, 11:28 AM

I tried flashing the H-T coating, dumped on a grate over a pan. It does dry them faster and I can handle a few minutes after the flash but it doesn't cure the coating. They also don't stick to the grate. Still haven't gotten the HF white to go on thin enough, it bubbles ( outgassing the solvent) and cures but isn't shootable. Well they are shootable but would be very inaccurate as the grooves are lopsided filled.

rhadamanthos12

10-24-2013, 02:50 PM

So I modified the method for bullets that were getting blunted and shrinking size. I'm using A paint can that I cut the carry handle ears off of and my thumler tumbler, I poked a few holes in the lid so the lacquer thinner can evaporate and let it run till the bullets are dry to the touch (I hear that the bullets in the can get louder is usually when I go check). for the mix I'm using 1fl oz of lacquer thinner and 2.8cc of powder I added about 2 handfuls worth of bullets to the batch.

This is the set up as it is running
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And here is a comparison between rolling and vibrating, the black is from the vibrating tumbler and the green is the paint can method
http://i.imgur.com/2SkOXWj.png

As you can see the edges are rounded on the black bullet compared to the green. the size mic'd of the green is .3115-.312 where as the black mic'd out to .308 and .309.

Rangefinder

10-24-2013, 03:32 PM

Alaskanguy>>man, that hot pink is something! :D Your wife is gonna be shooting no-burn tracers with that stuff! Glancing at the spec's listed, I'd say it ought to work great!

popper>>that's about the same outcome I get with my matte black. Originally got it to color-code between my standard rifle loads and subsonic loads--still haven't found a solution to that one yet. It globs up and won't give a thin coverage--to get coverage it ends up too thick, fills the lube grooves, gases out into cured bubbles at all the grooves, and has an orange-peel texture everywhere else. I have a few ideas in mind to try, just haven't had time to play with it yet. First thing I want to try for that one is to preheat the boolits to about 250F, then run 'em in the tumbler dry while dusting with the PC powder. Have to see about that when time allows.

rhadamanthos12>>great observation and solution to the problem you found! I haven't noticed any peining-down of size on mine as you did, but that could be because my PC paint seems to be working best with a very short run rather than running till dry--not running long enough to beat things up enough to notice. Nice innovation on the rock tumbler!

popper

10-24-2013, 03:36 PM

Different moulds? Bases look completely different.

popper

10-24-2013, 03:45 PM

Rangefinder - maybe heat them @ 100F or so before cooking to get the solvent to outgass SLOWLY? Appears to be a layer of solvent between the lead and coating that has to go.

Rangefinder

10-24-2013, 04:11 PM

Rangefinder - maybe heat them @ 100F or so before cooking to get the solvent to outgass SLOWLY? Appears to be a layer of solvent between the lead and coating that has to go.

That's certainly something worth trying. I don't mind a thicker coating as long as it finishes uniform--something that isn't happening with the bubbling from out-gasing while baking. Even a slightly rough texture on handgun or subsonic rifle boolits aren't going to cause noticeable harm to accuracy within their effective range so long as it finishes uniformly enough so as not to unbalance rotation. The conundrum continues...

rhadamanthos12

10-24-2013, 04:17 PM

popper that is from the same mould, NOE311-165

freebullet

10-27-2013, 04:33 PM

I'm curious what thickness is being achieved with these various methods.

strahd_zarovich

10-29-2013, 12:51 PM

Well I gave this a try today with HF Matte Black.

I do not think things look right and I am not getting a coating in the lube grooves (not that it matters).

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz83/zarovich69/Firearms/20131021_1941391.jpg (http://s816.photobucket.com/user/zarovich69/media/Firearms/20131021_1941391.jpg.html)

Well just got my sizer and the PC came off the drive bands. I guess I need to turn the heat up some. HFPC was bakes for 20 minutes at 400 in a toaster.

el34

10-29-2013, 01:11 PM

Beagle333

10-29-2013, 01:56 PM

My wife has already claimed the red candy coated ones for her .38 snubby. :roll:

strahd_zarovich

10-29-2013, 05:22 PM

Well just got my sizer and the PC came off the drive bands. I guess I need to turn the heat up some. HFPC was bakes for 20 minutes at 400 in a toaster.

Turned the heat up to 425 and let the toaster preheat for 10 minutes. I also added a thicker coat and I think I have it now. I will post pictures later for everyone's thoughts.

strahd_zarovich

10-29-2013, 06:54 PM

Second try using HFPC Matte Black. These have been sized too.

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz83/zarovich69/Firearms/20131029_184038.jpg (http://s816.photobucket.com/user/zarovich69/media/Firearms/20131029_184038.jpg.html)
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz83/zarovich69/Firearms/20131029_184022.jpg (http://s816.photobucket.com/user/zarovich69/media/Firearms/20131029_184022.jpg.html)

a.squibload

01-21-2014, 04:05 PM

Thanks RF for getting me started, never would have bought a sprayer so the tumbler method got me into PCing. HOWEVER...
tried several batches of dry tumbling (think Freightman brought it up), simple, smooth results, amount of powder not critical, and quick.
I have to pick up each boolit by the nose from the tumbler can with some long hemostats, pliers or tweezers would work, don't see those marks after baking.
Not sure if it's static or what makes the powder stick to the boolits but seems to be just the right thickness. Tumble 10 min or less, bake 10 min at 400. I'm using HF red.
With nonstick foil even the bases are coated if that's important, they peel right off the foil.

Anyway thanks again, you can kick me outta the solvent club now!

prickett

01-21-2014, 05:19 PM

Hi Squib,
Have you tried just dumping the powder coated boolits onto a hardware mesh tray? It'd save you the time of individually picking up the boolits and, you don't need the foil either. Just dump the boolits from the tumbler onto the tray, gently shake to knock off excess powder, then stick the tray right into the oven. Any blemishes are very minor. If you shake the tray immediately after taking it out of the oven, the still hot boolits will easily shake free from the grid.

Agree with you on leaving the solvent club! No more acetone!!!!

Happy tumbling!

gds

01-21-2014, 07:12 PM

a.squibload

01-22-2014, 01:28 PM

prickett

01-22-2014, 05:52 PM

When I tried setting them on window screen I was still using solvent, they were
a little runny, I probly used too much acetone. Left a crosshatch pattern
on the bases. Might try screen again with dry tumble.
Maybe a larger mesh would do better?

Yeah, screen is too small. Mesh only has a few points of contact AND allows excess powder to VERY easily be shaken free.

a.squibload

01-23-2014, 04:56 AM

I think I promised pics, these are not great but whaddaya want from a cell phone:

40 cast, PCd, sized.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZhnA-YtISak/UuDV-QZ7ZOI/AAAAAAAAArk/Te19qx98e9I/w800-h600-no/PC+40s.jpg

44, 40, 9 (for 357), and 9 (for 380).
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6_AUmQEcMr4/UuDWD5lybqI/AAAAAAAAArs/Pe20kQY2PzM/w800-h600-no/PC+boolits.jpg

I'm gonna try it on all my molds.
Might have to get more molds.

Beagle333

01-23-2014, 06:02 AM

Nice looking, Squibload. You're all set! :Fire:

Might have to get more molds.
Might? That's how the game is played!8-)

Rangefinder

01-26-2014, 06:16 PM

Guys, I'm just tickled at how everyone seems to be finding their own niche that is giving such great results. None of us can ever say this isn't an adventure... :D

Maximumbob54

01-27-2014, 08:26 AM

I've been loading up that same .40SW load but mine don't look at pretty...

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x333/Maximumbob54/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20140120_112646636_zpsobhb2skh.jpg (http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/Maximumbob54/media/Reloading%20and%20Casting/IMG_20140120_112646636_zpsobhb2skh.jpg.html)

It sure doesn't stop them from punching holes in the paper though!!!

BIGRED

01-27-2014, 10:09 AM

I couldn't resist and i tried this method. HF only had Black and Yellow PC paint on the shelf. it is on sale for $4 and everyone bought the red. The Yellow and black needed 2-3 coats to "fully" cover bullet. and it 3rd coat made the bullets to big for sizer so i had to give them a little lube to get them to go through sizer. 1 coat was blotchy, 2nd coat was a little better and would probably work, but not pretty. flat black ends up being kinda course on the outside. i tried my tumbler but the bullets would not coat. all the powder went to one small area in the tumbler and the bullets just danced around the whole bowl. never coated well, so i did it in a peanut Butter jar. worked better. used 1 TSP PC for 100 9mm boolits. still had some powder left in the jar after 4-5 minutes of hand tumbling. shot some yesterday and they all shoot fine. What am i doing wrong. BTW i baked at 400 degrees for 20 min in my toaster oven and laser temp gauge showed 401 degrees on the boolits in the oven.

Maximumbob54

01-27-2014, 01:02 PM

The black isn't known to work with dry tumble but works great with the wet tumble. The white and yellow seem to give mixed results. I prefer the red for tumbling dry as it sticks fairly well and when I do use the spray gun the red works fine for that as well.

a.squibload

01-27-2014, 08:04 PM

MaxBob, looks good, long as they shoot that's what counts, anyway it's hard to see 'em when they're flyin'!

Bigred: " ...they all shoot fine. What am i doing wrong." Nothin'!

I suspect there might be humidity in FL, might warm your boolits before powdering.
Not like I'm an expert but it's dry here & the powder doesn't clump together.
Try baking 10 min, seems to be enough.

Maximumbob54

01-28-2014, 01:27 PM

I don't preheat my oven and I bake mine and set the timer for 12ish minutes.

a.squibload

02-01-2014, 06:38 PM

That sounds good. I checked the temp with my lead thermometer
& left the dial setting there, door switch turns it on & off.
Bought 2 more pounds at HF Thursday, still $3.99 ea.

Jbiker

08-13-2014, 04:54 PM

anyone tried using the airsoft plastic pellets when dry tumbling to create a static charge...only done it once so far and tumbled for about 4 minutes, result was sort of blotchily paint finish out of the oven,did them a 2nd time and thing's got better......am discovering that this is sort of like the old guy that walk's into the package store...look's around and say's to the owner.. "SO MANY CHOICES, SO LITTLE LIVER "

Rangefinder

08-17-2014, 01:28 AM

SSGOldfart

12-18-2014, 01:09 AM

Sweet I'll make a test run in the morning if line at my post office isn't a 1/2 day affair.got to gear a pint of thinner.

GregLaROCHE

07-19-2018, 09:56 AM

I like the idea of the graphite, even with normal PC. It can’t hurt. Just a question of how much it ups the overall cost.

gidgaf

09-19-2018, 03:44 AM

> Still haven't gotten the HF white to go on thin enough, it bubbles ( outgassing the solvent) and cures <
Yup. Paint is paint. A combination of solvents and solids. The outside layer is drying and trapping the solvents inside. Extra humidity will exacerbate this. More and thinner coats and longer dry times is the fix. Just like any other paint.

41jfischer

02-20-2023, 06:01 PM

I tried HF but found that i eastwood powder work way better

Charlie Horse

04-06-2023, 02:07 PM

Well boys, Beagle turned me onto the dry-tumble with the airsoft pellets a while back, and I gotta say---it's just a peach! This stuff just keeps getting better all the time. So, I guess, contrary to the thread, I ain't using the solvent method anymore these days. Good to know it works, but the dry tumble is MUCH better.

I read through this entire thread, and I was gonna ask - why wet? Then I came upon this post. All I've ever done is with the bb's in a #5 container. Results have been very good. Guess there's no need to try wet tumbling.

312647