30 Carbine sizer problem

[Ickisrulz]

I think I know the answer to this, but I'll ask. I shot some 32-20 rounds out of my 30 Carbine Blackhawk. Of course the cases were blown out and now I have rimmed 30 carbine cases. Great.

I tried to re-size using an RCBS steel sizer die, but the 32-20 cases are still too big to even come close to holding a bullet. It looks like the 32-20 cases just don't go far enough into the sizer die to get re-sized properly. 30 Carbine cases work fine with this die.

My guess is that I'd be better off with a carbide sizing die which will re-size the entire case rather than make a taper like the steel one does. Am I correct? Thin shell holder a bit? Use 32-20 dies?

[Kevin Rohrer]

Not sure what you are asking. But if the 32-20 is a bottleneck case (I am not familiar with it), using a carbide die won't help; they are only good for straight cases. I have a carbide die for my .30 Carbine, but the cases still need to be lubed as they are so long.

Awhile ago I asked how many here used carbide dies for their .30 Carbine, and whether they used lube, also:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?176945-Poll-Lubing-or-Not-Lubing-M1-Carbine-Brass&highlight=

[ReloaderFred]

The .32-20 case is relatively thin, so I'm guessing that once they're blown out and trimmed, you have a rimmed .30 Carbine case with a thin neck.

Both the steel and carbide sizing dies for the .30 Carbine are tapered. At least mine are, so I doubt it would help to size the thinner necks down enough to give you good neck tension. I think you're confined to using .30 Carbine brass for your Blackhawk, or you could just sell it to me!

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Ickisrulz]

The .32-20 case is relatively thin, so I'm guessing that once they're blown out and trimmed, you have a rimmed .30 Carbine case with a thin neck.

Both the steel and carbide sizing dies for the .30 Carbine are tapered. At least mine are, so I doubt it would help to size the thinner necks down enough to give you good neck tension. I think you're confined to using .30 Carbine brass for your Blackhawk, or you could just sell it to me!

Hope this helps.

Fred

I am using Starline brass and it seems just as thick as the 30 Carbine brass. It is just a bit shorter and therefore it does not go enough into the taper to make hold the bullet. I was under the impression the carbide dies for the 30 carbine do the same thing they do for handgun cartridges--size the whole case one diameter.

[cbrick]

I also use 32-20 brass in my Ruger 30 Carbine. Measured via water weight the fireformed 32-20 brass has 5.1% MORE case capacity meaning thinner brass. I use a combination of die sets including the RCBS Cowboy 32-20 dies & 30 carbine dies. I expand & bell using a Lyman "M" die with a .3075" spud. The boolits need to be sized .309" in my Ruger or they won't chamber, with bore at .309" it works well.

I shoot almost exclusively the MP 311-410 now, was using Lyman 311410 single cavity HP before the MP 4 cav came into my life. This boolit works very well and even with my mouse phart loads (right at 1000 fps) it is devastating on little varmints such as the ground squirrels digging up the birms at the range. My loads are plenty light enough that I don't worry about the thinner brass or case life. Yes, the 32-20 is a tad shorter meaning I have rimmed brass & never have to worry about critical case length headspacing on the case mouth.

It does work quite well & I also had to experiment to find the right die combination.

Miha may have some these molds left, the group buy just closed a month or so ago, if your interested contact him & see. They were available in plain base & gas check versions, 2 & 4 cav and all molds came with three sets of pins. Short HP, long HP and flat nose pins.

Rick

[Ickisrulz]

I also use 32-20 brass in my Ruger 30 Carbine. Measured via water weight the fireformed 32-20 brass has 5.1% MORE case capacity meaning thinner brass. I use a combination of die sets including the RCBS Cowboy 32-20 dies & 30 carbine dies. I expand & bell using a Lyman "M" die with a .3075" spud. The boolits need to be sized .309" in my Ruger or they won't chamber, with bore at .309" it works well.

I shoot almost exclusively the MP 311-410 now, was using Lyman 311410 single cavity HP before the MP 4 cav came into my life. This boolit works very well and even with my mouse phart loads (right at 1000 fps) it is devastating on little varmints such as the ground squirrels digging up the birms at the range. My loads are plenty light enough that I don't worry about the thinner brass or case life. Yes, the 32-20 is a tad shorter meaning I have rimmed brass & never have to worry about critical case length headspacing on the case mouth.

It does work quite well & I also had to experiment to find the right die combination.

Miha may have some these molds left, the group buy just closed a month or so ago, if your interested contact him & see. They were available in plain base & gas check versions, 2 & 4 cav and all molds came with three sets of pins. Short HP, long HP and flat nose pins.

Rick

Do you re-size with the 32-20 sizer or a 30 Carbine sizer?

[cbrick]

Just checked my notes to be sure I remembered correctly, notes say . . . Sized with RCBS Cowboy 32-20.

Rick

[Ickisrulz]

Just checked my notes to be sure I remembered correctly, notes say . . . Sized with RCBS Cowboy 32-20.

Rick

Are you full length sizing to get the bottle neck shape back? If so, how long does the brass last?

I was considering getting a neck sizer die from CH4D and just sizing the neck portion to make the brass last. I'm not sure how long that would take.

[cbrick]

Yes, the 32-20 RCBS Cowboy is a F/L die. Yes, returns it to a bottle neck case. Yes, the 30 Carbine carbide sizer will not size the case down enough to hold the boolit. How long do they last? Dunno yet, I have one box of brass that has been loaded 4-5 times & no problems yet. With the light loads I'm using I haven't needed a crimp & that should help a bit with longevity plus I only size down the to the depth of the boolit I'm using, not all the way back to the original shoulder. Can't be much doubt that sizing that much will shorten brass life but there's always annealing. Before I do that I'll see how many loading's I can get before I get splits.

I have WW 30 Carbine brass and Starline, WW and RP 32-20 brass. I just went out to the shop to measure case wall thickness & wouldn't ya know it, the battery is dead in the tubing mike. Guess nothing lasts forever, it's about 10 years old. I'll get a battery and let ya know the difference in brass thickness.

Rick

[Poygan]

I've resorted to .32-20 brass in my Blackhawk and use the carbine die to size the brass. That worked. Lately I've been having success trimming the carbine brass in terms of having the rounds
chamber and not having them bind on the recoil shield. If this success continues, I may stop using the .32-20 brass.

[Ickisrulz]

I ended up getting a 32-20 die set from Lyman. I have been full length sizing the cases and have had good results. I have used 1 set of my cases 3 times so far and have not seen any problems. Eventually I will have to anneal them I suppose. The cases are the most delicate I've even dealt with and are easy to dent when neck expanding.

My load is a 311008 bullet (sized at .311) with around 6 grains of Unique for a muzzle velocity of 1265 fps. The accuracy is good enough for me (I'm mainly shooting steel plates at 50 yards...and it's hard to miss). I have literally zero leading and don't find the Unique to be as dirty as some complain it to be. I haven't been crimping these loads either and they do fine for me.