Newbie Question...What do you mean start here??

[Squeaky3436]

So I am new to reloading and I want to be smart about it before I get my hands dirty so I have done extensive research and read through the suggested manuals etc... and I still come up with a couple of the same questions I can’t seem to find a clear answer on...

1. When using cast boolits, can I use the data I find from the powder manufacturer as long as the boolit is the same weight? Ex. Per Alliant...9mm 124g Speer, 5.8g of Unique with CCI Primer is the only recipe for a 124 grain boolit. Is this formula OK for use with a 124 grain Lead Cast Boolit?

2. What do these "experts" mean when they say "That’s a good starting point?" My understanding is that starting near the bottom of the suggested recipe is smart and you "work your way up to a comfortable load" but...how do I know when I am at that point or where to start when only charge weight is suggested? Ex. The same recipe from Alliant above, when reviewing other forums most responses I found had people using 4.2-4.7g of Alliant with Cast 124g Boolits.

Thanks for de-ratteling this n00bs brain!

[Lonegun1894]

Cast boolits tend to give lower pressures with the same powder load at an equivalent weight jacketed bullet, so you can use the jacketed load data for cast, but, as you said, it is always smart to start on the low end and work up to do what you want, within safe limits. As to the "good starting point", this is usually a fairly light powder load that is known to be safe, either from manuals or sometimes from personal experience depending on who you're talking to. I had this same conversation with a friend a few days ago who is loading for a .357 and wanted to know what I load for my Ruger so he could use it in his S&W. Told him what I use but also what I started out with and know to be safe and recommended he start with the lower load and work his way up slowly. I can't even remember what I used last time loading up 9x19s and don't have my manuals handy so can't help with a specific load. I would also recommend double-checking any load data anyone gives you with a good manual so you can find out if they're at least in a safe start range, as anyone can put anything they want on the internet. I have posted results with some of my handloads that were definitely pushing the envelope of safety (per the manuals), but without the powder amounts, and in those cases will say that it is safe in my gun but that it exceeds the manuals. Many of us here do it the same way, but sooner or later you will stumble on an unsafe load someplace and it is those times that make you thank your guardian angel for giving you a second chance by making you check a manual.

[454PB]

As Lonegun1894 has said, a lead alloy boolit will usually have less friction than a jacketed bullet of the same weight. Where a newbie can get into trouble is seating the boolit too deeply, raising pressure. 9mm is especially sensitive to this because of the small case capacity and high operating pressures.

[KYCaster]

If the source lists only one powder charge weight, consider it the MAXIMUM charge. In MOST cases you can safely reduce the MAX charge by 10% to find a START point.

In MANY cases you can substitute lead when the recipe says jacketed, but bearing length, nose shape, over all length, amount of case capacity the bullet uses, etc., etc.......has an effect on pressures, so make sure you understand the issues before you make a decision.

When in doubt, ask someone who knows......that's what you're doing here....[smilie=s:

Jerry

BTW.....Alliant's on line reloading guide really SUX!!

Oh...Welcome to the forum.

[TXGunNut]

Welcome to the forum! Thing about min and max loads for some cartridges like the 9mm and 40 S&W is that the min load is generally the lowest charge that will cycle a given action, max generally isn't much more. 9mm isn't a round that responds well to "hot" loads so an accurate round that cycles the action reliably is as good as anyone's "max".

[Squeaky3436]

Thanks for the information guys. It sounds like the main concern is pressure and the different factors which increase said pressure. That being said, how will I know if the load I choose (from a valid source) is nearing too high pressure? I guess my question is what are some signs that a reload recipe may be border line or nearing unsafe without blowing my gun up?

[Lonegun1894]

Are you familiar with pressure signs such as flattened/cratered primers, expanded case bases, sticky extraction (in revolvers and other manual actions), etc? I don't have any photo's, but I'm sure someone here does.

[Squeaky3436]

Thanks Lonegun1894, yes I am familiar and I appreciate you bringing those up because my understanding is that carefully examining your cases and watching your extraction is a good way to find an issue. I guess I have read and heard so many people talk about catastrophic failures that I became overly concerned with the variations associated with cast boolits compared to jacketed, usually associated with the manuals. I have tried to stick to formulas from the Lee Guide but with only a few recipes per caliber and limited supply of components available, I can never find published data that incorporates the components I can find. When I do find something that seems safe when cross referenced with published data, is it safe to assume that a measure of safety margin is included to allow me to see these signs before I reach a catastrophic failure situation?

[Lonegun1894]

You have the Lee book? I have the first version, and if yours is the same as mine, then you want to read chapter 9, "All about pressure", starts on page 95 in my version. It has photo's of pressure signs and explains them.

[DrCaveman]

Squeaky3456

I think that what you are running into is similar to a lot of cast boolit handloaders, in that the components rarely match up perfectly to the recipes. At least that has been the case for me since i started reloading, and especially since i started casting

You start to find 'equivalents' more or less, between the bullets/boolits used in recipes and the one you are actually using. Research will show you the trends of various primer brands. Powder substitution is maybe the trickiest, but it has been done a lot. OAL is also a tricky one since it depends mostly upon the gun you are loading for, and can trump the rest if it is taken to extremes.

Is there any way you can get your hands dirty by learning the process with a more forgiving caliber? 38/357 comes to mind, as you can easily see the exact piece of brass you just fired, examine it for pressure signs/sticky extraction, and take note. Autoloaders i find a lot harder to judge the pressure...i feel like recoil, report, and boolit performance are the main indicators. Not a lot of wiggle room for that first experience with reloading

45 acp is also pretty forgiving, and the brass is easier to see laying on the ground :)

Be safe

[vogironface]

just a quick illustration about pressures. I helped my brother in law to reload for his 9 millimeter earlier in the year. We were using some of those berry's bullets that are hollow base. The bolts are quite a bit longer than normal 9 millimeter bullets of the same weight. The hollow bass creates an increased case capacity. The result was the bullet would not cycle the action. Realizing how sensitive the 9 millimeter is the pressures rather than pulling every bullet we simply seated them deeper. I created this string of several bullets each seated slightly deeper than the one before until we found one that cycle the action and until we found one that felt harder than it should be and called that minimum and maximum. The difference between the minimum and maximum was not very much, I don't remember the exact amount. This will show just how sensitive the 9 millimeter is to seating depth.

Also, I received in the mail yesterday accurate arms reloading manual. There was an interesting section about using primers to identify pressure. They took a 45 auto case and under loaded it, loaded it normal for normal velocities and create a very high pressure load. The high-pressure load was nearly twice that of the maximum recommended pressures. None of the primers showed any indication of high pressures. I'm not saying that the primers could never be used to identify high pressures but just that they are not always reliable and you need to be aware of other indicators as well.