H110 and 20g & 12g slugs

[bikerbeans]

Hi All,

Has anybody loaded 20 or 12 ga slugs with H110? If you have I would like to hear from you, PM or respond to this thread.

thanks

BB

[hubel458]

We had misfires in 12ga with H110 ball powder.with mag shotgun primers.
Never tried in 20 ga,

Now the VV110 stick powder works ok, just like 4759.Ed

[Greg5278]

DO NOT use H110 in 12 or 20 gauge! I worked with in in 12ga, and it was finicky. I had loads that worked fine, and burt clean. I loaded some and had a Flame out, it blew the slug into the forcing cone, and opned the action venting the pressure. It was in a Heavy custom Ithaca, so the wads, and gas went out the bottom. It scared me a good bit, loads above, and below what I fired had proven to be safe. It is a Powder not to be reduced in Handguns because of the same effect. I can't say it won't work, but the risk is just too great. Now on the other Hand Lil Gun is better suited for use with heavy Payloads in the 12 and 20 gauge. A Federal 209A Primer is best suited to ignite the Spherical powders because of the burn deterrent coating. You also need to know that the Spherical powders do not have a flat Burning rate, like the IMR Powders. They increase Pressure more per Grain on the higher end than at lower Chamber pressures.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore

[cpileri]

greg,
hope this isnt too much thread drift, but is there a place we can check to determine which powders have linear vs exponential or even biphasic burn rates as charges/payloads change?
You mentioned IMR powders have linear burn curves.
is that w light and heavy charges/ and w light and heavy payloads?

the exponential ones are the problematic ones, i think and maybe my thinking is off. but for an exponential curve, any change upwards can result in an unexpected SKY HIGH pressure, and change downward can result in a blooper, etc.
And a biphasic, you'd need to knwo the inflection point; right?

C-

[dverna]

I continue to be astonished at the risks people are prepared to take. I have a very simple rule. If it is not a published load (by a known source who does pressure testing) I will not load it unless it is at least "close" to a published load. There is a very small safety margin in thin walled shotgun barrels/chambers. It does not take much to exceed accepted pressures.

Play around at your own risk. One last thought - would you let your child or grandchild test fire the "wunder" load you are playing with?

Don Verna

[Greg5278]

Don, I do have the loads pressure tested in Tom Armbrust's Pressure Gun. Any load that I am willing to share has been tested, I do not advocate loading to higher than SAAMI Specs. It is true that some Substituions can cause a great increase in Chamber pressure. Not many People have the background to extrapolate and create loads. You can't just look at a Burn rate Cahrt or loading manual and create a new Load.
Given that Tom and PR have Pressure testing available, they should be utilized before giving out Loads. I have a Load from a Poster on another Forum that swore it was tested. I did not trust Him, and sent it off, his load was 27,300PSI almost 3X the chamber Pressure.

I warn People of the H110 Problem since I experienced it Myself. The IMR Powders are Predicatable once you have a baseline Pressure test.
The Powders that are Spherical or Ball type do not have the same predicable burn rate, Longshot being one of them. You can suddenly have an exponential increase in Chamber Pressure with a minimal increase in Velocity.

My final Warning is to respect the Design limitations and maximum safe Chamber pressures of the individual Guns.
I would not think of firing loads in a Mossberg 500, Rem 870 or anything like that with 15K or even more pressure.
The risk of a Hull or Gun Failure isn't worth it. Use a proper Action designed for Rifle type Chamber Pressure.
Greg
AKA 12 Bore

[dverna]

Greg,
I applaud your protocol to have loads pressure tested. That is the right way to do it.

But my suspicion is you are the exception. Most internet "ballisticians" are trying loads based on best guesses,, opinions and "experience" and the loads they post are questionable.

There used to be a guy at my club who would buy partial bottles/jugs/kegs of shotgun powders and mix them up for a "composite" powder. At first I thought he was kidding but he was not. At an ATA shoot, I got squaded next to him and he was having odd sounding shots during the second field. When we walked off, I gave him two boxes of factory shells and told him he had to shoot them or I would pull off the squad. There are people like that.

Thank you for you post and clarifying things.

Don Verna

[Greg5278]

Don, I've seen some pretty scary stuff that People have loaded. Some were loading shotshells by eye, without a Scale or Powder Measure.
The thing that concerns me most is People trying to create Loads without any baseline data. How much Powder do you start with? Do you want to have the Gun to your Shoulder when it's fired? I have fired some loads of Mine with an old Gun and a String. I sandbagged the Action in case it let loose.
Greg